desperate for dating advice - should I ask a younger guy out if I'm a client?

[autumnflower]

This would sound silly, but please help bear with me, if you can!
I'm divorced and have been single for a bit (unsuitable short relationship of 2mnth early this year, older man who turned out to be too controlling). I'm really ready for, and wanting a relationship, ideally would like to get married again and possibly have a child. I'm pressed for time as to children, but if this doesn't happen, still want to find a soulmate. The problem is I seem to be no good at all at developing a relationship in early stages. I tend to get excited quickly if there is mutual attraction and start imagining him as a lover and future husband, which means i have no patience developing things slowly. I asked a couple of men out myself over the last two years (apart from that relationship where older man intiated), both younger, thinking they were single - both turned to be married, so of course that stopped there, but it made me weary of asking someone again and being disappointed. I also read those books and kind of believe the idea that a man should be the one asking me out - I'd enjoy that more. I only asked those two out because they had no means of contacting me, fleeting encounters.
I'm now looking buy a new place, and lo and behold, I now fancy one of the estate agents! Partly i let myself fancy him as it looks like he's attracted. But I just don't trust my judgement after mistakes and a long gap in dating, as he could be just either nice, or wanting me as a client (I now view most properties with him and not other agents). He's younger, and that also scares me a bit - but he does seem to make an special effort, and they are busy anyway with sales, but also he blushed last time when we were shaling hands saying goodbuy. We seem to chat more amd more beyond the neccessary, and ther is eye contact but sometimes he looks away rather than look confident. The thing is, I feel that he won't ask me out because i'm a client and he might be scared of losing a job? does anyone have expreience of agents asking then out? very silly i know, but I think there is really something worthwhile between us! Just feels that he likes me. And he's apparently single (didn't ask directly but going by fact that he lives with friends). If he can't ask me out, should i do it? I'm pertified of making an idiot of myself again, if i misread it. Or he might be just interested in casual sex, but I'm not! I'm close to buying something so I might have to stop viewings next week and will stop seeing him, but can definetely see him at least once more. Oh, and I love his voice - always found it was a good sign. And it seems like i have a thing for younger guys - AND been encouraged by MN success stories. A woman in her 30s behaving like a teenager i know, but please help. Is it true that if a man really wants someone, he'll ask her out no matter what???

Hi OP, I don't think you're a stalker either, you just have a very bad crush on and it's going to suck until it goes away.

My advice would be to try to use other agents as much as possible -- out of sight, out of mind.

It's also worth thinking about what might have helped you get such a bad crush. The last one I had ended horribly (like springy, there was a terrible 'clang' when I poured my heart out and then later I got a text saying 'I just don't see it happening'. Owwwwwww )

But the 'trauma' of that moment really made me think, why did I go so crazy? And eventually I realised that in obsessing over this young and gorgeous man, I wasn't chasing love or happiness so much as self-validation. It was at a moment where my self-esteem was very low, and it's like I was chasing a magic pill that would erase all of that, if only I could catch him.

I'm not saying it's the same for you, it could be something really different. But the point is, you are lusting after someone you don't know at all. All you know is that he's attractive and makes pleasant small talk. The fact that he is trying to sell you something means that he is not being himself around you. I mean, maybe he is still a nice guy, but you are definitely not going to be seeing the real him while you are in this situation.

Which means that in the end, you are obsessed with an illusion. All the feeings you are having are very real, but they are based on nothing solid.

I say this because if, everytime you start thinking about him like this, you stop and say to yourself, 'This isn't real, this isn't real', it might help.

Autumn I can't remember if I said stalking and if i did I take it back- that's what happens if you post late at night after a long day!

HOWEVER_ reading your latest post today I do think I'd be justified in saying you sound obssessed with him- simply based on how you recall every glance, stare etc etc days/weeks after the event.

This is not healthy!

I said the same yesterday and so did other people- your interpretation of his glances, stares etc are based on your own projections as what you'd like to be happening.

Also- have you never agreed to a date or a suggestion at the time- simply because you were taken aback by the offer, then later you think twice about it? And not just with dating- with friends, making a cake for the PTA, whatever.

Have you not considered that he has done this?

Who knows if he is interested- it doesn't sound as if he is.. But what is clear is that you are really over thinking the whole thing hugely- and it must be exhausting for you!

Also, be realstic about the age gap. I am not hung up on this genreally, especially as couples get older, but I think it's much less likely that a man in his 20s would date someone 10 years older.

Honestly I'm not THAT obsessed that I'd go to any lengths, maybe i sounded frantic in the update posts purely as it happened that day that there was no follow up on his positive response of two weeks ago. I'm very stressed with two failed offers as literally I'm homeless now and moving around short rents, all my things in storage - so I'm much more obsessed with finding and buying a place, than ANYTHING else. But as i said he was the source of pleasurable feelings in the last two stessful months. I sort of cooled since the first post, but later as he responded to my suggestion, I felt more up for things again, and then a knock-back. Maybe i do feel oversensitive to knock back roght now as everything else is unsettled! But i wouldn't dream of stalking or trying to pursue him from now - as i managed last time to just pretend all is fine, as I said, and didn't ask him questions. But yes, dreaming I agree with your point that you grasp at something pleasant or validating when things aer unsettled elsewhere. I didn't though pur my heart out - for all he knows I just want something purely sexual, I didn't talk about any feelings - indeed I know that I don't really know him - but I did wantto go on a date andsee what happens, and whether there is potential - I wasn't jumping to conclusions already, apart from just being attracted!
The point that always riles me though, is when people are not straight forward. amelia, you say did i ever agree to smth without meaning it- not really, it's not in my natue as far as dating goes (i don't mean internet dating chats where everyone can be flakey, but in real life, face to face or on the phone). If someone asks me out and i know no chance i'm interested, I will eithre say No, or if a person is really nice, I might make an excuse, or eveb invent that I'm seeing someone so they aer not hurt, but it's clear it's a No. Equally, if I had a BF, I'd say it at once when someone asks me out.
Believe it or not, most men i came across where also direct - I don't ask men out often, but twice I asked people who i came across through random situations (work) and knew i had northing to lose as it was a temp contact. So BOTH said 'I'm flattered by i have a GF/am married' - nice, no time wasting, and i respect them. One was a bit off - he agreed to a date, and only after a week before due date (let me look forward to it) said that his wife would mind (eh? couldn't he say he was married at once?) - then i questioned him, he said that he didn't want to upset me with a 'no' - what a priceless logic! I was much moreupset building up for the date and then finding out. But that one was really one-two meetings, so i had no clue about him, he was a people pleaser type. With the agent, he doesn't seem the type to please or an obvious player - he's reserved even a bit awkward, and seem to swing a bit in his moods (from more upbeat to quiet) and we had many meetings so i thought he was srtaight. Hecould even respond 'I'm not sure' or smth like that - which I would do if I wanted to let someone down gently. Instead he looked pleased, smiled and blushed. I'm not recording every stare btw, but critical points i do remember - nature of work is that i have a very good memory, and if you like someone of course you notice small things, it's how women are good with children! He doesn't seem a sophisticated type, plus being younger - I actually think it might well put him off me that I'm older and more knowledgeable/expeienced and come across as confident - he might not feel so confident, possibly I can come across asa a 'big sister' character. younger guys did go for me couple of times before - never went into proper relationships, apart from one who was 5yrs younger. Recently for hte last 4yrs i was with much older guys and tbh fed up with their quirks, men my age unfortunately aren't single usually.
Sorry it's long.

I think many young men are put off by older woman's financial status too - they can feel they can't contribute evenly, which means the woman is likely to be in charge. I mean for rel-ships, not jst NSA of course.

I think it might be that you over-think things. Honestly, try to chill more and don't be so hung up on age, and all these, frankly, non-issues.

People either fancy you or they don't. That's just how it is.

I'm just discussing things - I think it's clear by now from my many posts that I know he's not interested in actual dating. I want to discuss it because it helps getting it off your chest, but also i find the whole subject of age gap interesting - there is a thread on MN about women telling about their LTRs with younger men, even marriages- I was amazed how many! I like younger men so i want to decide whether it's worth trying with them.
But generally it doesn't work in most cases - whether they fancy you or not, it doesn't mean they want a r-ship or dates even. In my case i think that's exactly that (and some people agree here) - he may like or fancy me (to a degree) but not be interested in any dating etc. As i say, I'm quite experienced and usually can tell whether he physically fancies me - there is a point also that many young men tend to fancy quite a lot of people, which is nothing they act on!

Why not just go with the flow, focus more on enjoying life in general rather than dating and you like who you like without thinking about age or any of that?

well, I did like him (and it wasn't planned - didn't immediately 'notice' him as such). But yes, what else can i do but move on..I agree that age has nothing to do with anything, can like a man of any age pretty much. But I do want to be realistic too as time is flying and i do want a relationship eventually. Can't act on every impulse..

If you are dead set on finding someone it can make you come over as desperate.

However, if you really want a child then I don't think there is anything wrong in making it clear on a dating site etc that you are looking for a LTR not a one night stand(s).

I think age matters less when both parties are older- but I still think it's unlikely that men in their 20s want a woman 10 years older. One simple reason is that they have the pick of women anyway- and often they are not ready to be a dad whereas the women is watching her biological clock.

TBH Autumn, you sound as if you don't have enough other stuff going on in your life is this episode over Mr Estate Agent occupies your thoughts so much. Maybe you need to just find more friends, a more demanding job, or join clubs etc and forget about looking for a man- then one is bound to come along.

Look, most nice, reasonable people (of any gender/orientation) prefer not to hurt other people's feelings. So when someone that they like, socialise with, are happy to have a chat with, suddenly demonstrates lust for them or at least an interest in taking the interaction up a level or two, very few people will give an immediate 'No'. Even when their own innermost feelings are 'You are an OK human being but I would rather eat spiders than snog you do not want to date you' They will fluff and flannel and do their best to escape with polite vagueness. Which is why I always recommend the Three Shots Rule. If you want to date/snog/shag someone, the maximum number of direct invitations to raise the game you can issue is three. Because a person might genuinely have a prior engagement on more than one night, but if it's three in a row and s/he hasn't said 'Well, can't do Monday but how about Thursday' then s/he IS NOT INTERESTED and you should back off immediately.

as i say, amelia, I'm MUCH more preoccupied with finding and buying a home, than anything else. This is taking all my time, as I live in one town but lookign in another, plus keep moving betewen short term stays here and there - it's very stressful and doesn't leave time for anything else like dating (a lot of my stuff is in storage, nothing glam to wear at hand for evening dates if i had any) - I do work (run a small business) but can't do as much as normal as again stuff in storage and lack of time. It's no wonder he 's taken second place to home-hunting. Once that's done or at least i settle into one rental place, I will join some clubs as people suggested above (didn't know about them) and will meet more people through work once settled. Internet dating i tried - and been put off it - you have to have so many dud dates in the process! I'm taking a break from that. I wasn't looking actively for a man when i met him, btw.

forgot to say - yes in theory younger guys shouldn't go for older women - but have you read that specific thread when all htese women describe their happy marriages with guys 10-15(!) yrs younger? I was amazed but maybe also got wrongly optimistic about a similar scenario.

SGV - yes, three times rule of course is right - I usually give no more than two attempts, as I don't want to chase anyone who s not interested, I do have some choice, y'know (long chasing happened once long ago but the guy was extremely manipulative) - I'm not in love with this guy (just like/fancy)to jump through hoops, so one invitation was more than enough. If i have more viewings there, I'll cool it right down to no flirting whatsoever, just friendly chat. If he starts staring etc again, will just not respond.

i see some advantages of younger guy older woman?

TD - are you a guy? and can it work long term? we all know the advantage of this as a fling!

Don't wish to get you all stirred up again but one of the happiest marriages I ever knew involved a woman a good 10 years older than her H. They were married for 18 years. The marriage only ended because she died.

Line Runner - i wish my instincts were so good! I usually can tell for sure if someone fancies me, but not whether they aer 'sweet' on me or up to something serious (unless they say) that's my limit. How did you know with all the encouragement from that young guy, that he didn't want to be asked out? it sounds kind of similar to 'my' guy (just assuming he wasn't putting on a show).

If I'm being blunt, I think the guy was just fantasising a bit. Now you can either act that out, or you can ignore it.

But you're not going to build a 'relationship' on such things. IME. (And I've had a fair few 'actings out'!)

I'm ten years older than dp..met when he was 25 and I 35 and a single mum..he did all the running and we've been together 4 years now with a lovely home, beautiful baby to complete our family and marriage plans..I don't think age comes into it if you find you have a strong connection with someone. The year before I met my wonderful dp I dated a 21 year old! Btw dp is drop dead gorgeous and could have his pick of women 20 years younger than me easily. He chose me because in his words (not mine,honest) he'd dated a lot of girls but the day he met me he knew he'd met the best :) aww I've gone all mushy and he's working away for two weeks and I really want to give him a cuddle now lol
Anyway all I want to say op is that I think you've realised this guy's a none starter and fwiw you sound like you had a perfectly normal reaction to his flirtation, not at all stalkerish..more..hopeful. Don't let it put you off dating a younger man though..age is just a number!

I just don't get it. My husband is almost 7 years younger than I am. We were married within weeks of meeting, only so long as the 2-week wait and that we had to go on his day off. I was not looking for dating or relationships, I was just taking some time out to re-evaluate, where I stood and what I wanted, as a divorcee at 30. I am 40 and he is just-turned 34 we have three children together and 9.5 years of marriage, our first being born almost 13 months after our marriage.

I've been there, all desperate and silly, it doesn't work!

Just chill out, swear off dating and chart a course for yourself and see where it goes.

Right now you just seem desperate and sad and as SGVB says it's a target for cocklodgers and abusers.

Take some time out for just you!

Exactly eminence..if someone's into you they're into you regardless of age and they don't dangle you or play games. Autumn it sounds like you were pretty plain speaking when you asked if he'd like to meet for a drink and he knew you meant in a social setting. Tbh I think this guy has played you which doesn't make him much of a catch imo no matter how pretty he is. He's noticed your attraction to him and led you to believe he might meet with you for drinks or whatever. I don't think you come across as sad or desperate, I think this guy flirted and you responded and what's biting you now is why did he say he'd like to meet when he obviously had no intention of doing so? If he wasn't into you then why not just gently say thanks but no thanks?

Autumn this is not really a thread about age differences, thought it's becoming one, fast!

In the case of this guy it probably has nothing to do with age- he just didn't want to date you.

we all know of age difference relationships, and yes, men can be happy with older women BUT is is the exception rather than the norm if you search stats. And yes, if you put a shout out/begin a thread on MN about this you are bound to get positive responses from women married to younger guys.

Up to 10 years either way is not too important IMO, but I still think that
men under the age of 30 would prefer women their own age or younger- as you get older it's not such an issue- but guys are genreally less mature than women anyway- and the age gap /emotional mtaurity levels off as they get older.

why do you keep moving around? Aren't you in a 6 month tenancy agreement?

I think age gaps are less important than your circumstances, how you're living your life. When I was mid-30s I had three boyfriends in a row in their mid-20s -- my most egregious was dating a 23 year old when I was 35 . None of them cared at all how old I was. But, I was a student, no kids, not sure I wanted any, so even though I was older I was not so different to them. Eventually I met DH who is 8 years younger.

I actually think dating younger guys is great. By my 30s I found it hard to meet guys my age who weren't single, and if they were they had usually come out of some horribly disastrous breakup and were a bit of a nightmare.

So as you go forward, I don't think you should rule out younger guys at all. Just be aware some guys might blow you off right away because of that -- but then, some guys will reject you immediately if your breasts aren't large enough, it's always something (sigh).

One look at any dating site will reveal how men think- which is very depressing.

I was doing some research ( not signing up!) and almost every guy wanted a woman who was younger- very few even wanted a woman 1 year older. eg if they were 44, they put 43 as their top age for a woman. etc. it had nothing to do with fertility. And there were loads of knobs- men who decided that only a woman 10-15 years younger was their dream woman.

I even see this with my darling brother- 47 , single, never married and no kids- his top limit is 40-ish- again, younger than him! He doesn't even seem to consider that a 50 year old might be perfect for him.

I think this is totally stupid- and maybe with attitudes like that it's no surprise they are still single- but there you go.

amelia I agree that men generally want someone a lot younger but ime younger men are very interested in older women, and not just for sex! Maybe it's a 'these days' thing? Certainly on paper they want someone younger but when they meet someone older - and realise that us old birds are a bit of alright - they think "Actually..."

Line - yeah, I can see that some young guys just enjoy the fantasy - was he very young? It's easy and ahem enjoyable, yet he's free from any decisions/initiative. I find that A LOT of men in their early 20s especially fancy older women - girls their age are not at their peak sexually but also haven't found own style yet etc., also younger girls often are attracted to older men. I had quite a few compliments, suggestions to meet (all for 'fun' of course nothing heavy) from young guys - went out only with those over 25 a couple of times and it was exciting, but unfortunately they wer just not relationship material. and although i find them exciting, I just know i will want a relationship and will have to find someone else, so why get involved. In the end they stopped dating as i was stalling sexually speaking (just kissing and no more). I do feel a bit lessconfedent with attractive younger guys as opposed to older.
Witch well you bewitched him! (sorry , cheesy!) - that's vrey interesting, I love sucj stories, as I'm still considering younger guys myself in case the right one will appear! I'd really like to know though how it worked! did you play cool when he chased you, or encouraged him quickly? also did you know him as a friend colleague, or just met randomly? It's much hrader to use your feminine wiles if it's random - these things is an art in a way and needs proximity. Also, was he not fazed by the fact that you aer financially more stable/earn more being older?
springy there aer sensitive souls who are intertsted inolder women not just for sex, as older women ARE more interesting to talk too often, with all the experience/wisdom even/or depth, and they express themselves better. I personally haven't had a chance with a younger guy like that, more soulful type - I don;t get to meet those.
dreaming that is the problem, men in their 30s-40s are mostly in LTRs already, and divorced ones are often bitter/too cautious!
amelia this is my problem with internet dating - people aer stupidly prescriptive, women too actually! It's so closed-minded on there, with age, height, income, children. People don't fall in love like this, and you can't feel the chemistry or connection just with the photo (or when you meet they not like the photo) - in most cases.