desperate for dating advice - should I ask a younger guy out if I'm a client?

[autumnflower]

This would sound silly, but please help bear with me, if you can!
I'm divorced and have been single for a bit (unsuitable short relationship of 2mnth early this year, older man who turned out to be too controlling). I'm really ready for, and wanting a relationship, ideally would like to get married again and possibly have a child. I'm pressed for time as to children, but if this doesn't happen, still want to find a soulmate. The problem is I seem to be no good at all at developing a relationship in early stages. I tend to get excited quickly if there is mutual attraction and start imagining him as a lover and future husband, which means i have no patience developing things slowly. I asked a couple of men out myself over the last two years (apart from that relationship where older man intiated), both younger, thinking they were single - both turned to be married, so of course that stopped there, but it made me weary of asking someone again and being disappointed. I also read those books and kind of believe the idea that a man should be the one asking me out - I'd enjoy that more. I only asked those two out because they had no means of contacting me, fleeting encounters.
I'm now looking buy a new place, and lo and behold, I now fancy one of the estate agents! Partly i let myself fancy him as it looks like he's attracted. But I just don't trust my judgement after mistakes and a long gap in dating, as he could be just either nice, or wanting me as a client (I now view most properties with him and not other agents). He's younger, and that also scares me a bit - but he does seem to make an special effort, and they are busy anyway with sales, but also he blushed last time when we were shaling hands saying goodbuy. We seem to chat more amd more beyond the neccessary, and ther is eye contact but sometimes he looks away rather than look confident. The thing is, I feel that he won't ask me out because i'm a client and he might be scared of losing a job? does anyone have expreience of agents asking then out? very silly i know, but I think there is really something worthwhile between us! Just feels that he likes me. And he's apparently single (didn't ask directly but going by fact that he lives with friends). If he can't ask me out, should i do it? I'm pertified of making an idiot of myself again, if i misread it. Or he might be just interested in casual sex, but I'm not! I'm close to buying something so I might have to stop viewings next week and will stop seeing him, but can definetely see him at least once more. Oh, and I love his voice - always found it was a good sign. And it seems like i have a thing for younger guys - AND been encouraged by MN success stories. A woman in her 30s behaving like a teenager i know, but please help. Is it true that if a man really wants someone, he'll ask her out no matter what???

AKiss - no chance, I ve lost a place already because i didn't want to compete with the highest bidder, I'm careful with money.
Also he only shows me places, bti never negotiate with him - a senior agent does all negotiating on the phone always. I look through other agents too.

I'm sorry to say, I think you are misinterpreting some of his body language and projecting an awful lot of feelings onto him.

I don't completely agree with the idea that if a man likes you he will ask you out first, because some men are shy. I know I made the first move with DH, if I hadn't we never would have gotten together! But, once he knew I was interested, he really did pursue me.

I think this man must really know you are interested in him, and yet he still has not asked you out. Maybe it's because of work, maybe he does have a girlfriend -- why do you assume someone is single because they live with friends?

I think if he were really interested in you, but was worried about work, he would find a way to let you know that was the issue. He would say, Great, yes, I'd really like to meet up, we should probably wait until after you find a place though, as I could get in trouble with work.

You really seem to be focusing on his stares and looks but that's a minefield. Some people stare intensely, that's all, it doesn't have to mean anything.

I think you should wait until you no longer have a professional relationship (ie after you buy something). Then ask him out for coffee or lunch to thank him for all his hard work. Then see what happens.

Autumn _ I know I wasn't there BUT can you accept that you could have possibly misinterpretted the body language? The reason I can see it differently- based on what you wrote- is actually because I wasn't there so can see his behaviour at face value- rather than with an agenda ( to snare him.)

you are not being objective- you want to read certain things into his reactions , which will confirm your goal.

someone without your agenda could view his body language in a completely different way- for every example you give, there is another less romantic explanation- right down to his showing you a house on a busy road- he has a job to do, commission to rake in, and targets to meet. all estate agents show clients houses they say they don't want to consider! ( ever watched Kirsty and Phil??)

At 27 he's just a year older than my son- and I'm sorry but the age gap you have, if it's 10 years, is too big for a guy that age- usually. (Before anyone jumps down my throat.)

There is nothing wrong at all in asking a man out- but stop over-analysing it all so much beforehand, and grow a thick skin in case they say no.

ah dreaming crossed posts- thank goodness I amnot the only one who is being accused of being harsh!

amelia - I didn't mean it's harsh to say he wasn't interested, that's pretty much what was already worried about and wanted opinions! I meant harsh with 'laughing to his mates', and 'couldn't wait how to get rid of me and pass to someone'. And that's not based on facts - I think he's a nice person generally, though yes, there is always an upleasant possibility that he told someone in the office (yikes!)
But i agree i could read wrong things into his body language, though I though i waas quite experienced with that. I think more and more on the lines that he wouldn't mind or even really like sex, but nothing else but senses that i want more.
dreaming, how did you know for sure DH was interested before you asked him out? He kind of said smth similar - when i suggested to meet him after I stopped viewings, I also said I don't have your number, meaning that he has to contact me - and he said, let's see how it goes with your offer (as if he won't give a number before i stop viewings) - it didn't go ewll even though i was sure it would, so i don't know whether he's still waiting - but he SHOULD have said smth when i saw him again, really! like we'd have to pospone, or something encouraging! Even though he did look happy to see me. so it's not great. And maybe he has a GF but why not mention it when i asked first time? just though a man with a (meaningful) gf wouldn't be so responsive to flirting - also he does evening job at weekends so not much time for girlfriend full time.

Ah okay, a few things.

First, loads of men with serious girlfriends still flirt. You may think you know him and he's a nice guy, but he's trying to sell you something and that's what he wants you to think. you really don't know him. That's quite important to keep in mind actually.

Okay, when you said 'I don't have your number' -- if he was interested, or wanted to make sure you hung out, he would have said, 'Oh sure, here it is.' Instead he said, 'let's see how it goes with your offer'. Ouch. I'm sorry, but I really don't think he's interested.

Body language says a lot -- but not as much as what people actually say and do. I think you are perhaps reading too much into the body language and you need to really step back and think, What is he actually doing?

As for my DH -- well, tbh, I was a bit drunk and just thought 'fuck it' and asked him Not a strategy I recommend!

I didn't know what he would say, if he was really interested -- but I did know (as we were good friends) that he would be very nice about it either way, so there was no harm in asking.

That's why I think you should wait until the professional stuff is over -- and just ask him out directly (though for something casual, like coffee). Then you don't have to play all these guessing games.

I do sympathise, I have done much the same as you in the past when I had serious crushes. But you know, none of them ever panned out into anything, and in a couple cases I seriously embarrassed myself!

I also wonder if maybe your intensity, as you said it, which might be unsettling to some guys, might diminish if you let yourself be more direct with men, instead of waiting for them to make a move, and working yourself up a bit with all the guessing.

oh sorry, that's long!

Hope I'm not being too harsh or anything, just a few thoughts from a long-time dating veteran

dreaming - are you joking, not too long at all, I'm very grateful! best friend just had a baby so I don't want to pester her with my dating life. I'm in a tough situation right now (moving about) and feel grateful for support and a few words to get my perspective straight!
I did also embarass myself like you didin the past- but that was long enough ago to try again now and risk taking intiative. Last BF was all initiative himself. But what do you mean by being direct with men? I mean someone above advised that i personally should ask men out at all (as I'm a bit vulnerable at the moment, i suppose) - I was direct enough when i said, that if i have no more viewing, it would be 'good to see you again' - this was quite direct. I mean why the hell is it up to me to always ask them - I do wait first fro them to do it, then if nothing happens I may ask, like this time - but assuming there is flirting. I can't see how all this would help him earn money? I mean i wouldn't chose a place just because he showed it - I offered on a place with the other agent as well since - but it does mean i view more with him just to prolong meetings - do they get bonus for number of viewings?
Yes , it was kind of Ouch with his response re phone number, but he did smile and blush when parting - I can see he night be worried that i 'm not discreet though (he doesn't know me either!), but i can't see why not give his private mobile or why not text from it? maybe there is some kinbd of GF even if not serious.

line 4 'shouldn't ask men', I meant

okay autumn maybe the laughing with mates was harsh- but i think that lustful ladies who fancy their young dashing estate agents ( or doctors, or dentists, or whoever) must be part of the job and office banter- possibly.

Maybe you can step back and see it from his point of view- if he is genuinely not interested then your overtures- and he will read them- will make him uncomfortable- yet he still has a job to do.

I am sure you are a very attractive woman, and men will want sex with you- but are you wanting simply that? if he is such a nice guy then maybe he is stepping back and simply doesn't want to "use you"- or be used!

He could well have a girlfriend- you do know nothing about him.
Living with "friends" may be a lie or his friend could be a girl.

I think you have to take on board that estate agents are usualy employed because they are personable- they have to be. I don't get the impression he has done anything beyond his call of duty.

It ight be hard to accept but if he really wanted to ask you out, he would have- there is no professional code of conduct that stops him.

autmn- I have just read your reply to dreaming- crossed posts.

I am trying hard not to sound harsh- but you come over as someone who has some insensitivity re, boundaries.

There are numerous reasons why a person you meet in a business context would not want to give out their personal mobile number. It's for the same reasons that I am ex directory and have 2 mobiles- one for work and one personal.

it's so i can be in control and retain some privacy.

The fact he blsuhed means that you put him in an awkward position- so what should you learn from that?

I meant, why not give his nimber IF he was interested - he did say Yes to meeting at some point! I know you are ex directory but you would give a number if you wanted to meet up with someone who asks, I assume? I obviously don't mean that I don't understand generally why people don't give their numbers. He may have a GF after all, yes. But why not say so?? I wasn't saying anything too forward, just that it would be good to see him again, then why not say 'I do have a GF', maybe adding that we could be just friends, or not - but don't forget he DID say yes to a meeting after viewings end. He could have just nicely declined and still continued the job if i have more viewings. I just don't understand or like this 'smoke and mirrors'. He didn't just blushed he smiled in a very pleased way, but ok, maybe that's just being flattered by attention.

'men will want sex with you- but are you wanting simply that? if he is such a nice guy then maybe he is stepping back and simply doesn't want to "use you"- or be used'
ideally I do want a relationship, but lately I've been thinking that if a right person for that doesn't come along for a while, why not have passion/friendship - even short term, though I might end up wanting more and upset - always a risk.
I can see your point though that if he's nice and can see that i'm nice (and stressed as well with all the buying problems at the moment) then he does not want to use me (as he's not interested in LTR) - as it would be easy for him to do that. There is an issue as well where to meet - he shares and i don't have a place there yet, that's assuming no Gf.

stop trying to 2nd guess all the time. the fact is he didn't want you to have his number- which is protecting his privacy as for all he knows you could be a complete loon who would call him day and night!

you've given him plenty of come-on, and he has not responded.

he may have a girl friend- or even a boyfriend- had you thought of that?

You come over as very intense which is a huge turn off for guys- and it will show.

I'm much more intense on here as I'm not hiding my emotions and being frank- with him I'm not as intense as sounds - the eye contact was mutual, if anything he stares more. I know he doesn't act much, but you ignore the fact that he agreed to meet when i suggested it (once i stop viewing) even went as far as suggest he can introduce me to some local people as I'm new - this was two weeks ago and just seen him agaain once, so you can see why I was still hoping a bit?

I'm not in his town more than once a week!

how can you not feel intense i you like someone? It also means passionate - do guys prefer cold ice queens? I'm like that too if I don't like a guy. But you read elsewhere that guys need it spelled out at least with flirting if you like them, guys on MN eveb say that as many aer too shy to ask someone attractice out. I did have my share of boyfriends so I didn't put everyone off with intensity! How can you generally be something you aer not? But i did keep cool with him first - I didn't immediately like him that much. it's developed over the months - and without his signs of attraction it would not! I don't go for guys who aer obvioulsy cool with me!

i meant I'm generally cool on the surface, but especially if i don't like a guy.

Okay- but taking out the stares etc- what do his actions say? looks and words mean nothing.

Guys are really straightforward most of the time- if they like you, they will act on it.

if women percieve them as playing hard to get then they are usually not interested.

How much of the meeting after your house was sorted was suggested by him- and how much by you that he simply agreed to?

Has he initiated anything?

You do not know if he is free- he might have a girlfriend or be gay.

I think instead of agonising over this - which is coming over as a teenager type crush- you should step right back and cool it.

And don't forget that he has a job to do- which means being friendly to all his clients.

well, I'm not doing anything, i.e. not pestering him - last time we met I didn't say anything because he didn't - it was a normal chat re property and how are things etc. I was very mildly flirting at some point, but most of the time didn't. I could of course not contact them at all if there is nothing to see for few weeks, and see whether he does any contacting?

Look, OP, it's been months now you've been fantasising about this man. You've made him very aware you are interested. He is, many times now, trying to make it clear to you he's not. You've thrown it out there about meeting up, a couple of times, he's not arranged this because he's just not that into you.

If he were just interested in sex, he'd already have shagged you. If he were interested in meeting you, ringing you, hanging out, he'd already be doing this.

Stop looking for things that aren't there.

You need to move on and leave this poor man alone! In these posts, you're coming across as desperate and a bit of a one.

This man might also very well be gay.

Seriously, he's not interested in you.

Oh my fucking God, I've just realised you started this thread in September.

Seriously, this guy is not into you either for sex, a relationship or even a friendship.

Put yourself out of your misery. You are looking for signs and signals that aren't there. He's not interested. Move on and find someone who is.

TooEasy, is september really that long ago?? I only saw him on average once in two weeks, and surely in this business scenario things usually develop slow - read some posts on MN, people fancied each other at work for months and years before asking each other out - I asked him after two and a half mnths after infrequesnt meetings. Yes, I accept that 99% he's not interested - I still don't know why he agreed to meet - surely he didn't have to give me ANY encouragement if he's not interested - he could also passed me to ihters for viewings, so It's really harsh to be so blaming of me.
eminence, If he wanted to shag, where would we go fot that -plus he couldn't have suggested a shag while he's at work - I could ve complained. In the beggining everyone said here that i should be asking as he would not, being at work. Yes, he may not at all be interested, but why aer you so unkind fgs, I came here for advice because i want to see it more clearly, so of course i assumed I may be wrong! 'a bit of one' - what does that mean? I had younger men interested in me/chasing before, I look young for my age - and you really don't know me, I'm just confused while really fancying someone - what a crime. No need for personal remarks. Every person is a matter of taste. I appreciate people who were nice here, and see me as a good person - which i am overall, why are you so agressive?

eminence, what am i exactly doing that he's 'poor' - he did look attracted and if nothing else it obviously flattered him (no, not because it's me, but generally female appreciation). If he hated meeting me, he didn't have to show me property, as i don't artrange directly with him most of the time - unless HE emails me. As i said, l have some pride and last time didn't say anything personal, he was still friendly as was I. Surely there is a 1% chance that he has his reasons (lack of confidence maybe) for not pursuing, not because he can't stand me.