Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 4

[MadameOvary]

Hello everyone - end of last thread kind of took us by surprise!
Will copy in links etc

These txts keep me in the non relationship and are stopping me from moving on. I don't think he will come to my place again while drunk as he is scared of getting a criminal record. That's what he said to me anyway.

I just want him to stop messing me around so I can move on with my life.

Can you change your number? Or keep that one for a payg phone and then use it for childcare arrangements? In that way you have a means for him to contact you purely to do with DS?
Does he quieten down if you don't respond? If you think he will never let go then perhaps complete no contact even for DS, but if you need to have contact with him for DS then is there a way you can detach that from rest of your life?

Defibnitely harassment if you have asked him to stop.....keep good records! Best wishes from someone else whose head is unravelling.......................................

Sorry if this is totally the wrong place but wondered if i could ask some advice...

Is my aunt a narc (hope thats the correct term?)

Every since I was small (and I mean small) I have never done anything right. Anything. At all.

Dont know why she treats me like this - my mum (her sister) says she is like it with everyone...not sure I agree but mum knows her better than me.

Some "issues" she has with me:
I am too fat
I am too thin
My hair is too short
My hair is too long
I spend too much money on glasses (I cannot see without my glasses and get a new pair every 2 years as I wear them 24/7)

I suppose the thing that really hurts is when she visited me and my very sick ds1 soon after his birth she called me a "bad mother" because in the 35 degree heat he only had a nappy on (he was born in the middle of a heatwave)

I was ill, ds1 was ill and I was exhausted. I still think it was an exceptionally cruel thing to say. Think it by all means if you must, but to say it?? And my mum just stood there My mum is the youngest and defends her sister to the hilt - I think she is scared of her.

I, however, am not.

How do you deal with people like this? Ignore? (not really an option) confront? (not much point tbh) or just accept they wont change and limit contact?

I think she has had a very unhappy life and I am sorry for that, but i dont particularly want to be the whipping boy anymore

Advice? (and apologies if this isnt the right place!)

Oh lord, it is the wrong place, isnt it?

So sorry!

I need the narc thread.

Sorry.

I use my number for lots of long term stuff. So not ideal to change it. Things have been swinging back and forth and Ive largely swung with it but I can now see the damage it is doing to DS and want it to stop.
Unfortunately ill those emotional txts he is sending is making me less determined. :(.

Becaroo, I think if anyone understands, its here.
I'd refuse to be around her.. she's vile.
I also can't believe your mum just allowed her treat you like that, that's pretty appauling too really :( x

Becaroo she won't change, how do you cope best?...me I'm a pushover so I would end up seeing her but only in as much company as possible (and not your mum who seems to have enrolled as a codependent in this situation) but really she deserves nothing from you and you owe her nothing!!!!

thanks for all the help and love on this thread...will be away for a while as we only have one online device ( luddites!) and it's very public...will have to be on best behaviour and only sign on as my other persona whilst himself is back!!

TBH, this place is as good as any other becarooooo!

Stuff the fact she had an unhappy life, PLENTY of people have unhappy lives, that doesn't entitle them to go around making everyone else miserable.

A phrase or two for you to memorise:

When she makes some shitty observation/comment:

"kindly remind me why any of this is your business?"

I'm sorry, but that is wrong and you are being rude"

"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stoned"

Thanks AWFULLY for your wisdom, I'll let you know when I need more of it"

Call her out - to the point of utter rudeness if you must - every single time. She's no right to be rude/critical to you! none what so ever.

And SAY to your mum "I dunno why you put up with this either, you could buy and sell this one over a million times, your worth a BILLION of her"

Bottom line, she is rude to you, you don't have to see her. tell her that you won't be spoken to like that, and that poor manners have no space in your life - open the door for her and invite her to use it!

Can I ask you all a question..
There are links to narcissism at the begining of the thread.
I looked into this massively when I was trying to 'help' my abusive ex when we were still together and I desperately wanted it to be ok. BUT it didn't really describe him...bits of it did but not the whole picture if that makes sense.
What did describe him was the profile for psychopath. Exactly! In every way. Do any of you feel that your abusive partners are/were psychopaths?

Still trying to make sense of it in a way so I can protect DS.
Thanks x

babyhammock yes on the psychopath thing: it's the complete inability to empathise with another human being. And the short-circuit that happens in their brains when it comes to taking responsibility for their own actions.

Me too, babyhammock.

How did you feel when you found the profile fit?

babyhammock hi, have you any link to profiles of psychopaths?

just googled and got this;

Characteristics of a Psychopath

superficial charm

self-centered & self-important

need for stimulation & prone to boredom

deceptive behavior & lying

conning & manipulative

little remorse or guilt

shallow emotional response

callous with a lack of empathy

living off others or predatory attitude

poor self-control

promiscuous sexual behavior

early behavioral problems

lack of realistic long term goals

impulsive lifestyle

irresponsible behavior

blaming others for their actions

short term relationships

juvenile delinquency

breaking parole or probation

varied criminal activity

so -yes, mines a psychopath!

the profile for psychopath is identical to sociopath (from my extensive 5 minute google research!)

www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

and also it seems that the terms are no longer used? but the umbrella term 'Anti-Social Personality Disorder' - this sounds much less scary and more 'believable' than psychopath.....

not saying for a minute babyhammock that I dont believe yours is a pyscopath...just that if people are struggling to accept that they are in a relationship with a psycopath it might be easier to come to terms with......

Senseless cruelty for entertainment is a uniquely ASPD characteristic. Disregard for the law is another descriptor, but Narcissists and other disordered people can also consider themselves above or beyond the law.

Dear Mad
don't give in to the emotional stuff at all. If you can stick your phone somewhere where you won't hear it for most of the day ... do you have a landline that you can ask friends to call (say mobile's playing up or something) then you won't be so bothered.
And re the naming the illness - I wonder whether it is possible to fit anyone into any of these? All the definitions are perhaps made by people who haven't had the emotional closeness we have had so can be slightly more dispassionate and fit the right boxes.
How about simply dysfunctional with various flavours?

These two are important, I'm told:

1. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.

1. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.

When it comes down to it, NPD, HPD and ASPD are about a disconnect with the rest of the world; other people as pieces for their own personal game. Not sure how important it is to try for an exact amateur diagnosis?

Yup I was looking at antisocial vs psychopathic and the distinguishable feature is that psychopaths are much more manipulative and 'ordered'. Apparently 4% of the population are sociopaths and 1% are psychopaths, psychopath is a more extreme version.

Beejezus this is quite a good article... scary though, but explains everything about his behaviour that just made no sense to me :-/. Even to the having weird words that don't match.. www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath_2.htm
Puppy, yes its just so hard to get your head round. For ages I couldn't accept that he was like that.. I thought he can't really be this way surely..

garlic I found the profile for it a while ago and finally accepted that was him when I re-read it after I had called the police so I was already at the point of no return. The true implications are just starting to dawn on me though. What I can't get is the amount of blatant lying that he's doing at the moment about serious big stuff where everyone knows its a lie... its just mad.. :(. I spose the more I think about it the more threatened I feel... he just won't let up. A solicitor who's been helping me thinks he's derranged.

Do this test: www.arkancide.com/psychopathy.htm
Mine scored 35 and that was me giving him the benefit of the doubt on a couple, making him an extreme psychopath..
Thanks you lot x

Garlic, I see where your coming from and I don't suppose it really matters. Its just that none of the others fitted, well not properly, there was always a whole load missing.
This one there isn't, its like they are describing him personally in great detail.

I guess I'm still coming to terms with it all and the bottom line with me is I know he will really hurt DS if he gets a chance.

I know what you mean. It's a bit like watching a horror film unfold ... :(
Good to hear your solicitor's got some sense! You do need to "watch the film" so you're aware of the hazards ahead.

Sorry to hear what you're dealing with. I suspect it's more than 1%! It's a rarely diagnosed condition. 4% of high-level executives are thought to be psychopaths. I guess that makes sense; they have no compunction about who they trample on to get what they want.

'I know what you mean. It's a bit like watching a horror film unfold ...'
Yes it is. I'm just starting to be able to step back and see the whole picture..my little brain could only really compute bits of it before if that makes sense x

Yes it probably is more than that...

Thank you for the (great) advice.

Of course you are all right.....must try harder!

She is coming back off hols (she has gone - invited herself - with my parents to Ireland for a week) and wants to come and see our new house when she gets back.

Might be busy

Luckily (or unluckily for my poor dad who has to ferry her back to london which is a 2 hour + trip from where we live) she is going home soon after getting back.

Grr

Hi all, quick update (edit: or not so quick). It's been a really weird weekend. His behaviour has been impeccable. He is really pulling out all the stops and I don't think it's calculated, at least not consciously. It is making me doubt my decision :( even though I know this is an obvious time to have second thoughts. He is getting out of my way in the days, making real steps towards getting some work, seeing a psychologist (his own idea!) for two hours today and looking forward to it. In a way I think he's pleased I've given him a kick up the arse to sort himself out and earn some self-respect. He does seem to accept that it's probably over but is reluctant to move out (we'll cover this in our joint counselling on Wed as the counsellor said it's likely to be a separation negotiation), which I think is a shock/getting used to the idea thing. He's also very worried about the girls and I'm open to this as I know I will have been exhibiting confirmation bias (i.e. only thinking positive things about the impact on them because it's the outcome I want). He wrote three pages and read them to me about how well he understands, how he's been so overbearing, how he can't believe he's 'sleepwalked' into this situation. We are having some boundary issues - he's still hugging me a lot. I am definitely putting his feelings first in terms of how I react to this (and also the girls, don't want to be asking him to get off in front of them). We have a local friend he can stay with and then he can come here for his 'nights' and I'll go elsewhere - I think this will be a good interim stage as he can't cope with the idea of moving out yet.

It's SO hard. I am being strong and resilient and I KNOW all the feelings of 'god, was I just making a massive fuss about nothing?' are completely predictable. It's just such a liberation to be able to speak openly and honestly and have him NOD (!) when I talk about my feelings and the things he has done to upset me. He's just NOT a complete cunt and he does get it. I think the most important thing I've said was yesterday when he said 'how do you feel about the stuff I read you' and I (took a deep breath and) said 'well, it's good to know you understand, but it's all just words so far', and he said that was a real incentive to him and he's looking forward to proving himself.

I guess the only area of conflict now is that I want him to prove himself out of the relationship and he wants to prove himself in it.

Do you read this and think 'god, he doesn't fit the profile at all, what was she ever doing here?'.

I feel clear and happy and like I'm in control ( - IS it me who is controlling?) and like whatever happens from here my life gets better. I just want to be really wary it's not getting better for the short-term. I honestly do think if he addressed all his self-esteem issues with a psychologist (and this would take a LONG time) and proved to himself that he has worth then we might have a chance - it's clear all the abusive behaviour stems from that. I know 'they' don't change but there has to be a spectrum, doesn't there? And I'm not risking anything by hoping he'll change outside the relationship?

helpmeMN
LISTEN... I have been exactly where you are so many times.. it is calculated what he is doing and the he is having the exact effect on you that he wants.

It feels like a revelation on his part, you feel like you're finally getting somewhere, at last he seems to get it, finally there's hope, he just has self esteem issues... ITS JUST AN ACT!!!. I know you want it to be true but it isn't. Sorry x