Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 4

[MadameOvary]

Hello everyone - end of last thread kind of took us by surprise!
Will copy in links etc

Bibi, a(nother) beer will do

thank you...message received and understood!!!

Lundy is arriving tomorrow !!!!

then I think a little talk about "if you're really serious about this then let's go to a professional" then see what's what...either way the reaction will be informative....

place your bets here .........................

5 languages arrived today thanks buttons kids need so much, that's why i'm unable to get out really....can't get my head around doing more than i am doing, don't feel like I have time to breathe and head space is nil and am more coherent on here than anywhere else...so from posts you will see how bad my brain has got..........................

lucky ti have found you all...and to think i got sent here from the "doghouse"....wise women indeed on MN

night all...off to enjoy my bed on MY OWN with large and no-one waking me up in the wee small hours.....well hopefully anyway!

Goodnight onthehill (really don't like using the fool bit) £10 of mine bets you get 'no way, I'm not going to one of your so called professionals' or 'it's this couple or nothing' 'Why do I have to see anyone when it's you causing all the problems'

Just a few selections of mine in his game of bullshit bingo.

Off up the wooden hill myself now, sleep well everyone.

Dear Fool, yup with the others - does that lower the odds for a big payout on the bet (I don't get odds at all). I'm too cautious as usual. But I still say be selfish and see what these friends can do for you and the DCs, if that is possible.
I get the idea re the professionals being a threat to an abuser. Guess that's why ex prefers no contact with DCs rather than face a mediator. He knows in his heart that he is in the wrong and fears being found out so it is better to walk out of their lives and have people believe he is the victim. I thought long and hard here re mediation and decided it was worth the effort for DCs. He decided no way did he want his behaviour discussed in public. And that explains why MiL is banned from contact with DCs too.
But read Lundy, read other stuff as well. Hang on before you get round to having a chat as it takes time to absorb. As they say on planes put your own mask on first, then the DCs. He is capable of sorting himself if he choses.
Night night everyone

FOTH (see what I did there )
I'm glad you are not going down what would be a very dodgy road re this couple.
And Bibi, cannot now picture you in anything but that ticket collector's uniform - think you have become our mascot!
Night all, may sleep being even more progression and distance from these twats.

I like foolonthehill as a name because in the song, it's the fool who is the wise on.

Think notsorted is definitely not living down to her name, though!

back online finally to update after yesterday, he was in police station till mid afternoon, wouldn't admit to anything claimed it was ' just normal pushing and shoving', just? normal? ok. Anyway just his word against mine no witnesses so no further action which the officer wasn't pleased with but there you go I just hope it put the wind up him. His father drove up and got him after I went to work and basically that is it, gone, I couldn't possibly have him in the house after that. Police were absolutely lovely, couldn't have been nicer or more helpful or professional or kinder.
He's taken the modem and the monitor so have had to borrow a netbook for now and am being kindly given a modem later and then can run pc through telly so will be able to be online at least.
Had a good night's sleep, am screwed for money but at least no one is going to call me a pathetic lazy useless mental bitch cunt today or ever again for the rest of my life and that feeling is making me stupidly happy, I feel like a different person it's amazing. Need to do a lot of sorting and contacting various people so will get on with that.
And thanks :) xx

Indeed, reasons, no-one is EVER going to say or do those things to you again.

You have been marvelous. And can freely continue to be your marvelous self now!

reasons...has he gone to his parents? At least there is a record of his behaviour. :(

I have re read Lundy Bancroft. He describes abusive scenarios brilliantly. But I have the same misgivings as I did the first two times I read it.

For me, entitlement just doesn't explain it. It's more than that. This is why I found Patricia Evans books much more illuminating, as she explains what is going on in their heads when the behaviour is actually occuring.

I can see the terror and the utter panic of being comlpetely out of control and total fear of abandonement, in a toddler fashion. That isn't entitlement. It's terror.

I know loads of horribly sexist men who believe that women are mere objects for their pleasure..but they are not abusive in the same way, just ignorant rude and these days, considered sad dinosaurs.

Entitlement doesn't explain the script either. From any background, and any level of education, they all say the same words in the same order. That has to be explained by something more...something psychological. For example;
They ALL accuse their partners of being mad/insane/crazy.

Surely they are projecting their own sense of being insanely out of control and disconnected FROM THEMSELVES! Not a thing to do with us, or anyone else..it's their own internal conflict

For me, this is far more liberating....because it really is THEIR mental health problem, that they are projecting onto the safest target.Knowing that, for me anyway, means that I can take a step back and know that it is ALL in his head. Nothing whatever to do with anything about me. And it never was, and it never will be.

Dear ThisIs I think I should try the Patricia Evans too. My ex was like a rabbit in the headlights when confronted with anything remotely difficult. I did have sympathy for him but was thinking today with DCs it is your responsibility to sort yourself - no one should wittingly put their own f*ups on their DCs.
In the end I decided that I wouldn't react, would let him make his own choice and I did sort of know that he wouldn't physically harm me again as in that sense his conviction meant he knew he would get a worse sentence next time.
And for that Reason you have done a very strong thing. There is a record, if anything happens again that will influence the outcome. Try and come down off the adrenaline if you can ... it is a scary drug (I think). Simple things, simple pleasures, everything else needs to take a backseat except for the well-being of you and the family. Congratulations on your first day of freedom.
PS thanks for offering the name change. I'm going to see how I get on up to half-term then assess. Feel more sorted offering advice, but still having the wobbles as far as my situation is concerned.
Hope sun is shining in your neck of the woods

Lundy made more sense to me than Patricia Evans. But I don't see their theories as diverging, but complementary.

Yes, it's the shitstorm of self-hatred and fear of abandonment and loss of control that makes my ex act the way he does. However, he chooses to act in a "gimme gimme" toddler fashion as a result: "I want!", as the answer to what will soothe his pain. It is a sense of entitlement speaking.

I have the same shitstorm of self-hatred and fear of abandonment and loss of control in my own head. I translate it into action the opposite way: "Oh well, I don't deserve better...". It is the opposite of a sense of entitlement.

Wow Reasons! You're amazing! So happy to read about your bravery.

I just got the Patricia Evans and so far it's tick tick tick tick.. exactly that. It's good for me as the further I get from actually living there, the harder it is to remember that he's an oozypushead and not a victim deprived of his children.

I'm wary of calling it mental illness as well. I like the description of 'power over' - he has a choice about what he does about these feelings of terror and loss of control. He doesn't have to lash out and squish me (or any of us) to make it better. An adult takes responsibility for those feelings and seeks out help and support to deal with them - ASKs for this help and also does their own work to make the help effective. Unless that's in place I've not got a whole lot of sympathy.

On jewellery - he's bought me a couple heart necklaces but made a point of telling me how AMAZINGLY cheap they each were. Yep, they looked it too. And tacky, cause I've actually got no problem with cheap but stopped wearing that type of style when I was 14.

And health - I had cervical shock the first time I tried to have a coil fitted. It hurt worse than (drug free) childbirth. After ruling out other options, I tried again after our 2nd baby. I went on my own and all he could talk about for the days following was his FRIEND's problems with the coil she'd just had removed. Nothing on mine. Plus, he refused to hold my hand during a contraction on the 4th?5th? (who the hell knows at that point) day of labour because he was reading a newspaper article. f£&$y f@£ f£@

(yep, I'm angry)

that said, thisis I really think this is true: "Knowing that, for me anyway, means that I can take a step back and know that it is ALL in his head. Nothing whatever to do with anything about me. And it never was, and it never will be."

Oh I completely agree that they are not remotely divergent, just that P Evans goes that bit deeper.

For me, the inner child therapy changed EVERYTHING! I could see that I too was behaving like a terrified toddler, our arguments must have been akin to a nursery sometimes...and I lashed out at him. I completely lost control.

"I have the same shitstorm of self-hatred and fear of abandonment and loss of control in my own head. I translate it into action the opposite way: "Oh well, I don't deserve better...". It is the opposite of a sense of entitlement"

YES! And I am aware that both h and I switched regularly between the two! Toddlers, just like toddlers, fighting/sulking/fighting. And then friends again like nothing happened.

As I have "grown up" I am able to stay in control of my feelings and take a big step back. That I believe is why he turned violent after the best part of ten years. I was leaving the room, I WAS abandoning him. But I was doing the right thing. The adult thing, the controlled thing, the thing that reduced any more anguish to my kids.

But for him there is the incest and a whole load of other stuff for HIM to deal with. I dealt with my own shit, and it was hard, but I am so glad I did.

There is no way in the world that I could have evn thought that about MYSELF two years ago. Denial is the most extraordinary thing.

Sorry to go on......

On the denial thing...I remember denial, but I can't for the life of me work out what was so scary about the truth! I knew it was the truth, but instead I felt angry, and scared and beligerent. God I can see my family members being just like that.

Looking back, it is almost comedic. But toddlers are funny aren't they? "It wasn't me miss"....bright red in the face and it being totally obvious to everyone that it was indeed me! Whatever the misdemeanor happens to be.

I wonder why I don't feel shame...I don't, it was jusy where I was, and thankfully, I HAVE done the work to ensure that I am not there now.

HOUSEKEEPING NOTE

Because I will do anything to avoid doing my paid job, I have just created a file to copy-paste at the start of all our new threads, which contains all our links to useful books and websites, in the MN-style formatting.

Just so that someone doesn't exhaust herself doing it all over again at the start of threads 5, 6, and so on, since annoyingly links don't copy.

I'll be watching the end of this thread like a hawk.

As you were.

I have never had the guilt present thing.

He's good at presents at birthday and Christmas, always incredibly thoughtful, and lovely. But in between times, never really. Only if he went away working or something like that.

The only thing he got wrong in that sense was the anniversary card this year.

Another one who needs a ticket over here. Have been with my DP/XP on and off over the last few years and now feel that enough is enough. I stupidly got back together with him a couple of months ago, believing that he had changed. How I was wrong, we met up the other night to 'talk' about how things had been going downhill and what we could do in the furture. He had other ideas and just met me to score points, tell me the problems are 'cause and effect' I am too sensitive which makes him the way he is. Juse read the link to 'melanie tonia evans' and was shocked at how many of the 'common expressions of a narcassist' I was able to tick off from just one night

this is i would love to do inner child work. I am aware that a huge part of me is still a scared little girl, wanting to be approved of and wanting to be loved unconditionally just because I am me.
Do you know how to go about finding out about inner child therapy?

I make a point now of telling my kids I love them when they are not expecting it, just standing in a room say, or walking to the car. The look on their faces is priceless and the hugs we exchange are so strengthening.

buttons I had it on the nhs. I believe it's quite new.

It has radically changed the way I parent too. It has radically changed everything, and astounds me on an almost daily basis. :)

H is reading "Homecoming" by John Bradshaw, who is a leading authority on this. But, I do think it's too big to do alone. It was pretty devastating at times, expressing all the grief of little me. I am so aware of her now, and sometimes still do the non dominant hand writing. The last time I did it, she was laughing her head off!!!!!!

I also found that the pictures and dolls were jusr astounding in letting out stuff that I had never noticed...more particularly how "witch", seemed to think I was a boy. ;-/

This is where princess bluebell came from btw.

It wasn't "pretty devastating", it was fucking mind bendingly devastating actually.

Thanks thisis, yes I've read reviews about the Bradshaw book. Some say it's brilliant and others say it's too much to do alone. Righty-ho then I shall ask at the dr's about it. What's the betting they have never heard of it?

Ok should I read Homecoming on my own? Or start with Patricia Evans? Just finished a big piece of work, so have time. Or should I go back to knitting? Think I may bring up Inner child with counsellor next week ... she does keep referring back to my childhood. Was thinking today where I was in the family dynamic - younger child, not brunt of my mum's bipolar stuff - just watched and cried and thought weirdly 'what about me?' And then I ended up being responsible for both parents as they got iller - did the carer bit, the financial bit. And I think some of that affected my dynamic with my ex. Yes we could be two toddlers. I used to cry when he left and beg for him to return. I was shit scared of being utterly alone with DCs and literally no one to turn to.
Btw read a bit about Five Languages online but now see there is a different book for children. Btw did the quizes for adults and discovered that in arguments my language is asking for responsibility. Hah, that is a dead no hoper with ex, he has irresponsibility written through his life like the letters in a stick of rock.
PS can we add melanie tonia evans to our library of links. That ticked lots of boxes for me ...

God just read the Melanie Tonia stuff, well some of it. The list that gave examples of things narcissists say really freaked me out, I mean really. That is HIM that is what he has said to me for years.

Its a real eye opener, I felt a bit shell shocked when I fist saw it, it was weird feeling going from just thinking he was a complete twonk to an abuser with a personality disorder! If I had the dosh I would love to look at the recovery program, tis pretty expensive though :(