Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 4

[MadameOvary]

Hello everyone - end of last thread kind of took us by surprise!
Will copy in links etc

yes, yes,yes!!!!!! A job, all of your own. Emotional independence and a start at looking for financial independence. Stick to your guns. Don't minimise what he has been doing...don't let it seem normal again or "not so bad" :it was bad, it was unacceptable and you deserve better!

reasons that's brilliant. I pm'd you.

I went to a DV drop in place today. Spoke to a lovely woman. I told her about our brilliant group here and how wonderful you all are xxxxx

Some advice from you wise women of the web please....

13 year old EA marriage, lots of kids,all young.

Lovely, wise older couple witnessed H's behaviour on Monday and have offered to talk with him/us/me and see if they can help...would automatically prefer not to...think unprofessional "help" might be unwise...BUT they are the ONLY people that H will contemplate talking with ( He objects to "counselling" having lost it with a few over the years !!).

Can I cope with them being on "his side" if he manipulates them...? yes probably...they are not my main support and they have wonderfully worked at preventing him from shutting them out as he has so many other friends and I feel I have to get through the communication black-out somehow...but feeling vv nervous and a bit resentful ( it's going to have to be on my ONLY 2 hour slot in the week that is for me!!...feel like selfish cow!)

buttons book arrived!!

Egyptian men buy gold for their women. I have quite a lot left that he has bought me over the years. He took some back with him this time to sell, and promised to pay me back for it, but I don't care. Don't want it anymore.

There's the solitaire diamond and matching earrings - that was the time he told me to have a look at the stuff in the shop, some young lad was staring at me like I'd just stepped off an alien space craft, so I was reluctant to say the leastt. Then X had a go at me as our toddler was exploring the shop, and I wasn't looking after him. This is in a shop belonging to a family friend, generations of each family have been friends, so DS was safe, there was no problem, and WTF was he, X, doing that meant he couldn't watch his son for a few minutes? I told X off, there and then, sat down and refused to look at anything, but when he insisted I hit him REALLY hard, getting the ring, the earrings and the matching pendant. [twat]

There's the double gold ring he bought me when he really tipped me over the edge once and I told him I hated life with him and couldn't wait to leave.

The earrings he gave me after having another fight. The massive gold chain and bracelet after some other occasion of twattishness.

There's a theme there somewhere isn't there? Every piece I have now that is mine, has a bad memory attached. Not one bought of love. Those early he bought me that I had were stolen in a break in when I was 4m PG.

Now I wear NOTHING except a little venetian glass heart on a metal wire I bought from a stall at a village fete. Cost me £5 IIRC.

I always wanted to look into making jewellery... perhaps I ought to be a little more serious and go and MAKE myself some stuff!?

hissy really NOTHING except a little glass heart?? perhaps knitting and then jewellery making as the winter comes on fast???

How about sending the guilt gold to one of those "we pay for your old gold jewellery websites" and buy yourself the kit to get started making your own??? Then no nasty memories and lots of nice pretty things to associate with new nice ones.....or just throw the lot at him and be done with it!!!

Gosh, I never got guilt presents, he never had any money. He did do things round the house unexpectedly or encourage me to spend money on - a new fridge, a kitchen table (ok both useful) and I remember thinking it was a day of celebration when he would hang out the washing or tidy up the toys. Oh and he always claimed he cooked as much as me. I once thought of keeping a diary just to remind myself that it was me who prepped supper in between working, doing things with DCs and keeping up with the housework.

PM'ed you back Reasons

Ugh, jewellery [shudders] So glad all that shit is behind me.

I never got guilt presents because he never felt guilty.

I got too many presents I didn't want because he wanted to show how generous he was. But they were things I didnt want/need/like and then I had to be grateful enough. Got so I hated presents altogether, I'd much rather have someone do something for me like make me tea or wash up or put the bins out!

nothing jewellery wise...

I will sell the gold, but it's where to take it, I keep meaning to take it to a jeweller to see what they'd offer me... cash for gold places are a rip off and this is all 18ct stuff.

I do want rid of it.

Oh I'm not sure it was guilt, jewellery for their women is like decorating a tree, it's about showing off. he'd treat me like shit in front of the shop keeper,then spend a grand and his image would be restored, and in a way I'd be placated somehow as I got something out of it.

I never got 'guilt' presents as he NEVER felt guilty.

But I am in the same boat Hissy with my engagement ring and xmas present. I hate them being in the house. I want to get rid.

I have been advised to sell them to a proper jewlers (sp!!) Dont sell them for scrap gold. At the moment the price of gold is huge!! You will get a small fortune back.

As for jewellery making, go for it!! I love anything handmade. Im a card maker myself (Hence the name) making anything is the best therapy. I absolutley love it! And you have something to show off at the end!

Martin Lewis did a piece on selling gold on radio4 recently.....his stuff is usually posted on www.moneysavingexpert.com but a good jeweller might be better or maybe you could sell it yourself??

think it's all about ownership isn't it??...i own her, i dress her...she looks good because of me, look how great I am with this beautiful woman wearing my stuff......

Ooh this makes me lol when I think how skewed ex was .
He demanded things off me or else ... I think his self-esteem was so f*** up that he liked to think of himself as kept man and one that was badly treated at that. I had no intention of keeping him, I wanted a partner, an equal. God it was such a screwed up set up.
Hope OW is keeping him in the style he thinks he deserves not

Re your friends, Fool, I don't know. What good could they do, realistically? Your H sounds like a Grade A abuser and that kind are not going to be brought to genuine realisation and atonement through a pep talk. How do you honestly think you'd feel if he does manipulate them into believing it's "a communication problem" or "six of one and half a dozen of the other"? Even wise and kindly people can misjudge, especially if they've never met the genuine sneaky article before. And a professional counsellor who knows their stuff will never jointly counsel a couple where there is abuse. So, my feeling is, you stand to lose more than you will gain if they're talking about getting you into a room together and being joint referees while you talk things out. All the talking in the world won't get him to see your point of view if he doesn't want to.

That said, the couples counselling I went to with XH (I didn't know then what I know now, you see) was quite useful in a way because he behaved so oddly and the counsellor so often had a expression on that it proved I was doing the right thing by splitting. Maybe you'll get that kind of validation in your own mind, even if your friends don't end up taking your side wholeheartedly.

Dear Fool, sounds potentially difficult. They could be of the type who think as Annie said. Also are from a generation where women were classed as nags and men should be pandered to not get involved in women's work. Also what do you think you'd be comfortable telling them on your own? If you flag up some issues and label them as abusive you could possibly open a can of worms between them iyswim - stuff that they have tolerated. You definitely don't want them minimising as one person I opened up to did.
However, if they are of support to you and the DCs then it could be a good thing.
Best suggestion is go and talk to them on your own ... sound them out, find out where they are coming from. I think that is definitely worth it. Or give us notsowise women here an idea of them and perhaps we can help you weigh up pluses and minuses.

thanks...

plusses are that they are genuinely concerned, he has actually told them some of the bad stuff he does (loss of control, anger,threatening behaviour etc),he may be open to telling them more and/or they are probably disposed to believe some pretty bad stuff if I tell them, they care about all of us and have had some genuinely tough times themselves, are not so old (decade older than us) and he was very very ill for 10 years so wife had to do everything...work, kids, etc.etc.

minuses are that they definitely want us to work it out rather than walk out (so have an agenda), might be open to manipulation or bend over backwards to be fair ( thus not being fair as everything is not 50:50 in every case!!) and may potentially minimise the abuse due to the complete of it all.

If we don't go H probably will clam up and bad behaviour will probably continue to escalate and his self delusion will continue.
If we do go the above might happen anyway OR he might get a little perspective and go somewhere professional (this with my eternal optimist hat on).

annie yes I definitely would be happy even if the only thig that happened was that I actually believe that this stuff is happening in my life (sticks head firmly back in sand)

gettingsorted you are too wise and clear thinking for your posting name...thanks for your thoughts, definitely worth doing.

More wisdom from the assembled Mighty MNers always welcome.

PS..can you tell that he's away with work again? (HOORAY)...back to radio silence at the weekend (BOO)!!

I'm with the advice against taking this couple up on their offer foolonthehill.

Apart from anything else the main thought i have about it is that your p is getting to call the shots again in this. Refuses to see a professional but agrees to talk to this couple.

There's something deeply strange about that arrangement to me plus, true to form you're opinion and feelings on the matter are not being heard.

Actually, my honest reaction was 'no effing way' how is that supposed to help?

I'd be telling him you want it done properly or not at all. Not at all preferably since there's clearly EA in the relationship.

BIG FAT ticket to you know where for him for this idea alone!

Oh FGS - your - sorry, bit anal about that and there/their :)

My view is that if you can't post on Mumsnet unless he's out of the house you're definitely in an abusive relationship. Might be a bit flippant but seriously, that's kind of an indication.

And what Bibi said. My, she's a dab hand with those tickets.

Fool, sorry, missed your question re the couple.

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HOLY, DON'T DO IT!

These people will not be trained to withstand a Category A abuser! He'll tell them all manner of shit, reel them in and they will end up siding with HIM. He will then turn UP the abuse against you and he'll have allies!

That is the worst case scenario.

best case is that they do see through him and refuse to be manipulated, and he'll get pissy about it and you'll get the fall out.

Even a middle ground where there is no alienation, won't be any use. He won't think he has to change, some older couple won't convince him.

Listen, you know what my situation was, how miserable my day to day, you know the stuff I told X that would make me so dreadfully sad I couldn't bear to look out of the window for weeks at a time, as it would remind me where I was and then I would be enraged, or just sob. I know true despair. I could tell X in every way there was that I needed help, it needed to change, but he promised he'd consider it.... and then refused.

If I couldn't tell this man in 3 different languages why he made me so miserable I thought about walking into the sea, and he didn't flinch, what makes you think YOU could succeed? They don't CARE love.

Stop banging your head on the wall Fool, it's not going to work, it'll never work love. And certainly NEVER if you STAY with this prize twat. Where is the incentive to change?

Please, if you have not read Lundy Bancrofts book, can you kindly get it on express delivery?

fool can you negotiate your two hours back? That seems really important with your six kids (SIX!!!!). You need some time to yourself apart from this rather stressful "counselling" session.

I'm with Bibi though, I can't see how it can help given his track record, and it's almost setting you up to fail. If it goes badly for him he says "I told you counselling is useless" and if it goes well for him and badly for you it will be difficult to get out of it. In the event of it helping you both that would be fab but how likely is that given that they are well meaning amateurs?

Would would a good outcome be for you? Him admitting he has hurt you and improving communications in future? Or what?

SIX children??? Dear god, i turn into a stress-puppy at times with a job and two cats. What a doily :)

I'm running out of hats to take off at the sheer super human efforts displayed on this thread!!!

I'm in a larey mood today and I say to the far side of Fuuuuuck with these excuses of men!!!

fool no don't do it. There is no negotiation/mediation with these men UNLESS you happen to be Lundy. You need someone who really knows what it is to work with an abuser. And yes 6 kids takes it out of you, especially, if like mine, yours are very needy because of the shit at home.