Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 4

[MadameOvary]

Hello everyone - end of last thread kind of took us by surprise!
Will copy in links etc

Really practical question - how did those of you at the lawyer stage choose your solicitor? I feel totally out of my depths, especially at it's not my country. (I do have indefinite leave to remain so shouldn't be booted out, not that I would really complain.)

I live in London and seem to qualify for legal aid if anyone's got an amazing recommendation to pm me.. It would be most appreciated.

Also, what counts as dv for legal aid calculations? He's not hit but trapped me in a bathroom, threatened to take my passport and wrestled me until his mom shouted him down when I tried to flee with it and other documents. (My mom was also in the house with my kids and i came back in the morning.) Oh, and all the emotional crap that i seem to have trouble taking seriously as abuse.

Gosh - I seem to alternate from anger to snarkiness to self pity. My emotions will settle down eventually, right?

Thank you for saying that so clearly HerHissyness. I have a feeling you're right even though it scares me to think of being so aggressive?assertive? I'm really frightened of escalating things. That said, he does seem to push past whatever boundary I set so it would be good to start them really really far out.

Classic Hissy
Bibi, didn't know your work was such a shit place to be. Yes, go, and fuck 'em!

thisis, Hissy is of a slightly different school of thought to me when it comes to grief. See, I don't mind still having feelings for ex, as I know I am past the point of no return. I came across this I'd written years ago:
"These are the redundant prayers of a lost faith
The power exhausted
The battery drained"

Seems quite apt for me now.
I am of the mindset that detachment is a process of running down the battery of the relationship...because they are so limited, and we are not, our feelings for them must eventually die. We can only go round in the same old circles so many times before we've had enough.
Exhausting the battery takes time though. The last bits tend to drag on a bit. But past a certain point they are purely residual, and we have healed so much that they can't hurt us any more (though they may well annoy us)
My point is (sorry it's taken a while to get there!) that there is a place for grief. I'm a big fan of the "feel it and deal with it" way of doing things.
Hissy, not so much.
But that's what works for her. Whatever works for you is equally fine. It takes as long as it takes.
(awaits flaming from Hissy for being a crybaby wuss )

If I (anyone) don't feel my feelings...they will come out somewhere else, probably in an illness. I know enough by now to have sussed that out.

I am not angry...I can't make myself be angry if I'm not, sorry.

I am sad. I express sadness through crying.

I have had the strength to cut out my abusive mothers and sisters. I DO know what I'm doing! Lets face it, there's not many strong enough to do that. I am.

Remember, I am left with absolutely NOTHING and NOBODY in my life, no family, nothing.

I think I have every right to feel whatever I feel about that, and if it's not anger, well, there it is.

I have dealt with moving completely away from a toxic family. H is now doing the same thing with his. Good. He's still a father isn't he? Remember, I only found out the truth about his family one year ago, because that truth is so shocking.

I may be many things, I am strong, and am wise and informed, and I am compassionate.

To add:

I have not one shred of guilt. I haven't done anything wrong, so why should I feel guilt? I don't.

Two points:

My "mother" turned up on the doorstep on 23 December 2008. I had been no contact for five years up to then. She had christmas presents for the kids. What should I have done in that instance?

My inner child therapy led me to realise that I too was "stuck" at the age of, in my case, 3. It was an embarrasing thing to see that the way I engaged with people, especially in an emotional situation, did resemble a three year old. I've been there..I am not going to blame or hate people for being there too! On these boards, I remember when Garlic admitted that she herself had been abusive, I couldn't believe that someone actually admitted the "A" word on THESE boards. I get it now. I have also behaved abusively in all kinds of relationships...because I was stuck at three, and didn't know, from my role models, that there was any other way of being.

I actually don't have "a long way to go" I've come a lot further than almost anyone I know! I'll be damned if I'm going to start yelling at people for trying to improve themselves. Even if I am not in their lives while they do it, it's still good that they are! My "mother" never will...she still thinks I'm "evil". I don't hate her, feel angry or guilty about her either, just really sorry that she is so ill.

Thisis:

You are not his therapist. You cannot fix him. And most importantly, he is not you.

Because you are making progress yourself, you are over-hopeful about his. He is not the same person as you and it is most unlikely that his prognosis is anything like as good as yours. He may improve, well great, but he will never be "normal" and it is likely to be decades, not months, before he's even safe to be around. Don't go saying "but I'm not normal either". You've always been several hundred degrees more normal than he is. That's why he has to destroy you, remember? Nice, talented, decent, the perfect victim. It's one hell of a long stretch between "I realise my family were toxic" to "I admit I tried to ruin your career and your mind and your skin", even further to "I am truly sorry", and he may never get to "and it will never happen again" (in truth rather than in word; he's a good fellow with the words, isn't he?).

By all means feel sorry for the poor fucked-up person that he is, but at a distance. He will still hurt you if he can. You see small signs of hope that at least he's seeing his demons for what they are, if not exactly conquering them, but remember how much you thought he'd improved before and then remember what he did. You cannot afford to give him another chance. He will hurt you, perhaps kill you, and he may well do this in front of your DCs, who have seen more than enough fucked-upness already.

Don't let him in. Somebody else is helping him. Great. But you can't. Simply because you are his ex-lover and you still care about him, you can't. Don't even try. We don't want to see you in the papers in the wrong way.

And cry if you must, but cry for yourself and for the things your toxic family and partners have put your DCs through. You can mend it for them, the next generation, but only by keeping them far away from the evil influences that nearly destroyed you. This is one thing that you are best placed to do, because you've seen it, you know what to look out for, you can protect them. It is not too late for loving, sensible parenting to give them a decent future. Your H is in a different position altogether, one where it is too late for parenting and love just gives him an angle. Yes, pity him. But like a poor sad caged tiger in the zoo, don't go in and pet him, because you will lose an arm. Again.

thisis you sound so strong and sorted I am in awe of you. I love the whole journey concept. It is like sharing a bus with a group of people some just getting on for the first time tearful and anxious and some who have been on the bus for weeks and have all their luggage organised and their packed lunch in neat tupperware.

bibi you are the Bus Conductress I think, welcoming newcomers and making them comfortable.
Re the new job, don't feel a shred of guilt, just rejoice that that you have been offered an upgrade and can swan up to the next level where you belong leaving those unkind users behind.

I had a second date with NM and am unsure. He is lovely kind and grateful but I will have to look after him and make sure he doesn't get hurt.
Hmmm I have track record of falling for selfish users, would it be good to go out with a really nice thoughtful person instead? Will just enjoy and go with the flow for now.

Dear This Is, I hope today is ok for you. Some need to grieve at times, others to get angry - different people, different times, different situations. I love Hissy and MO as they are both strong and have different ways of coping so great to hear both.
Can I suggest that you have today as a strictly you day. Do something nice for you if you can and get out of the house if you can. I have grieving duvet days too, but getting out helps lift the feeling. This is a day to think of the past perhaps but also think of you in the future. I know you feel for him, but you need to be strong for you first off. Think of it like the oxygen mask message in a plane - get yours on first then help others. Thinking of you xx

Whoops, massive x-post... I probably wasted a lot of worry, and typing, for nothing!

LittleHouse, are you collecting lame ducks for a hobby? ^^

thisis You are going to be just fine. You remind me of an embattled general who, in his darkest hour, confused by conflicting advice and squabbling luietenants (sp) lifts his weary head, looks round his War Room...and fires every one of the fuckers for being totally useless.
That's what you did. You then sought out independent people who could help you without furthering their own agenda. That three year old is doing pretty good IMHO.

Can I just add that if someone as wise and switched-on as MO can fall into the twat trap, none of us need be ashamed that we did the same!

(it's "lieutenants" btw )

Littlehouse Please don't think you have to look after NM. You really shouldn't have to.
I am finding my way with DP as well. He doesn't need to be mothered, he doesn't need anything that X did. So I have to just "be" and it's odd, but nice.

Annie I may be overthinking this (as usual).

You meet someone, they seem confident and happy, you get to know them better and they share their insecurities and doubts. That seems pretty normal.

But after a lifetime of dancing around a man whose needs could never be met by enough love I am wary. I don't want to fix any one. I would rather be on my own in my Little House. And I think while I have understood my abusive behaviour to my Ex was a product of hurt and frustration and his PA behaviour I don't trust myself yet to be able to control my temper. And this new guy had an unkind Ex who behaved quite like I did...

OK chill. One step at a time! If it walks like a lame duck and quacks like a lame duck... it can still fly like a bird!

littlehouse have you had therapy? You seem to have a lot of insight, and it's hard to tie up loose ends alone.

annie..No, no need to worry! I have been quite clear that the therapy and perp course have to happen, just for their own sake. Not for me, or anyone else. It just is the right thing to do. And he cannot be here, because it is not safe. I know that. He knows that. I said to his face..."you do realise that your pathology means that you could kill me?" Trust me...I do know what I'm doing, well, as much as anyone does.

I do believe that he is sorry, but, like love, it needs to be something that is done...not merely said.

I know that it is not a popular opinion, and I can only speak for myself, but I KNOW that my childhood and my family have led me to abusive situation, after abusive situation. I have been so fucking brave to get rid of EVERYONE who thinks it's ok to hurt me. I am aware that by doing that, I have taught my children an amazing thing.

I let my "mother" back in my life that christmas. In a way I'm glad because I got confrimation of the absolute horror and hell I'd been put through wrt residence of DS was ALL her doing. She lied about being in touch with H1, and continues to do so. Discovering that truth was one of the darkest moments of my life, but also empowering. I know the truth now. It hurt more than anything to find that my own mother had conspired to literally destroy me FOR YEARS! She just kept on going! When she found out that H and I had seperated, she was in touch with him immediately...she will still try to destroy me, even now.

Look, if I can survive that...I think I can survive anything. I can't begin to tell you how I felt when I discovered the email correspondence that proved it all, except instinctively I already knew. People find it unbelievable that my mother is so consumed with hatred for me...but she is.

I pity her, really I do. Can you imagine hating someone that much that it takes over your whole life? And me! I'm dead nice!

This is,
one thought does the perps course keep you in the loop? Also have you talked to respect - they run lots of courses and are wise to the situation. I found them very helpful as they observe processes your H is going through and have good sense for what is real and what is pretend.
And exhortation to everyone on here to wave pompoms madly as This Is marches round the room and sings "I'm dead nice, I am."
Yes you bloody well are. Go girl, go!

You are! But then, she doesn't see a nice human being, she's seeing that projection screen isn't she, and the only thing she has to project is... not nice.

I just thought you sounded so down last night (which I only saw this morning, hence the panic). But you were only doing that sensible thing of venting in a safe place. We all get dark thoughts at times which are "better out than in". I don't want to put you off venting by throwing huge piles of verbiage at you whenever you don't sound 100% happy!

Hello. Just popping to say keep going brave ladies xx

Yes notsorted, I have already spoken to my IPS worker, she's lovely. He won't get an assessment until next month, and I have said, that if they sniff any denial, they won't let him on.

His therapy is fortnightly, this is in addition to the perp course, and definitely necessary. Fortnightly means is heavy duty shit that's going on.

I do sing that! I also quietly say.."Goddess" when I catch my reflection...Ha ha ha ha!

Yes, that's all I ever was to her...well, all of them. It was a deeply distressing thing to realise. How very DARE I make them look at themselves...I mean, if they can't project their horror onto me, where does it have to go?

And it is their horror. Learning about projection etc is almost like being given psychic powers!

Being invisible sounds like fun, except that no one sees who you are, no one can hear you, no one can share with you. Being invisible was a pile of poo actually, and working on not being invisible is a work in progress still.

I am not down as such..I'm dead sad. That's the feeling. I feel really sad that I was born into such dysfunction, and that my life has been about getting out of that, instead of being a popstar, which is what I actually REALLY wanted!!!!!

Whoops, massive x-post... I probably wasted a lot of worry, and typing, for nothing!

Nope: I have copy-pasted that post of yours in my file of "MN posts to keep and re-read" that helps me through the hard times.

(Your posts feature in it quite a lot, Annie! )

Thanks Puppy! You've written a few doozies yourself. Whenever I see your name on a thread I think "ah, now we're going to see some sense".

Hi all, I have been meaning to come over here after I left my abusive relationship a few months ago. I can't really remember much about the last few months - getting by on empty I think. But this amazingly honest thoughtful and inciteful thread is reminding me that I need to get my head out of the sand and deal with what I am now.

Annie wrote earlier up thread:

"As for getting over it, I think you're right that people expect you to be so overjoyed at escaping from the abuse that you don't need support afterwards. It really doesn't work like that, does it? The very mind games that kept us there make it difficult to detach. We have to untangle our thinking patterns from the spaghetti-like mess Mr Headfuck knitted it into. Indeed, the theory of cognitive dissonance (which you have read about) suggests that it may be harder to get over a difficult relationship because you have to fight your own self-conditioning. Ten years of looking on the bright side, trying to make it work, accentuating the positive as the song says, ten years of your own self-training, needs to be unlearned. It's not going to be easy."

I cannot tell you how relevant that is to me. I realise now I have been trained to not look at my own needs, always be 'fine', always be 'happy', always 'sort things out'. Jesus, my ex sent me a congratulations card 4 months after my dad died.........congratulating me on "handling it so well". Which in plain english means thanks for not being a pain in the arse and having emotions.

I pretty much immediately wanted to go on dates after we separated. Still don't really know why and think it is because I am so used to getting feedback about myself and being told what to do, I couldn't cope without it - knew I couldn't do it with him because he was literally dangerous, but still needed a man. Maybe it is also because I am so used to explaining every minutiae of my life it in some sick way makes you feel needed, and without that I am nothing. I need and want so much to stop this behaviour - I don't want another man, I want to sort myself out....but I keep doing it. I hate my low self control.

I want it all to go away today. I have literally had enough. Even in our separation I have tried so hard to be amicable and reasonable and not hurt his feelings. I am starting to realise he doesn't afford me the same luxury and still rants and raves and emotionally abuses me - he doesn't give a flying fuck about what I feel about anything, not one thing.

I am a bit stuck about what to do at the moment, hoping this is rock bottom. Keep thinking I have reached rock bottom and then something else kicks in.

Sorry for rant, having bad day and this thread is full of such wonderful women who will probably know what I mean

LadyBlahBlah
Welcome and you can rant here as much as you want. Let it out even if you are not looking for an answer to anything.
Don't worry about anything. It is all ok here, it is safe. It is all a pile of spaghetti, we are all misshapen sponges - or whatever image you fancy. And we are all going round in circles or have got on BB's magnificent bus at different stops on the road to freedom. She'll show up in a moment with a ticket for you and thrust a ticket into your ex's paw to that wondrous place the far side of fuck.
I get stuck, go up and down, but can honestly say that although I didn't believe it when I was pinned to the bed in grief, anger, tears a few months ago that it would get easier, it does. My circles/cycles are on a slow, gentle spin now and the emotions less wearying now.
And I do understand your need for affirmation through dating, I can't do grown up cooking yet as there is no one to enjoy the meal and affirm me through that. But be careful, go slow. How about just trying to go out so that you get dressed up and can look in the mirror and say 'wow, gorgeous' to yourself? (((hugs)))

LadyBlahBlah: Welcome! He sent you a congrats card? OMG! WTF do these twats honestly think?

thisis sorry if I was a bit harsh, but i can't bear the thought of this guy hurting you. he knows you and he knew that the card would hurt. sorry. I'm so sorry to hear about your mother, but you know what life would be if you allowed these poisonous people anywhere near you. Your H included.

You are not ALONE, you are FREE, no more do you have to worry what they are going to say, do think. they are irrelevant. Sure you can be sad for what might have been, but tbh things change, nothing is written in stone, so not much point in being sad about what was planned. plans change.

Adapt and survive. Enjoy every moment you have. When you've grown up with and lived with those that seek your misery, you need to devote as much time as you have left to live the best you possibly can.

Don't dwell on the past, focus on the present and develop ideas and goals for the future.

LOL @ grown up cooking. I have only cooked 'kids meals' for 4 months. I used to cook something pretty alright every night.

I so agree about not dwelling on the past HerHissy - but I find everyday I remember another seemingly innocuous event in our 'relationship' which now I can see for what it was - abusive and manipulative. And there are so many, I wonder if I'll ever get through them

I don't feel free yet - do you guys?