Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 4

[MadameOvary]

Hello everyone - end of last thread kind of took us by surprise!
Will copy in links etc

Hugs to all as everyone seems a little less strong today. There will be good days and bad days.
I think MO's point is good or alternative is that if you have to engage then remember that their emotional maturity is about the level of a preschooler but unlike your DCs they don't deserve to be given the consideration of a toddler and their tantrums and whacks hurt a hell of a lot more.
I too remember the invisibility. I used to stand in the kitchen sobbing over the sink or lying in bed wishing he wasn't there so I could have a proper cry. I'd sit at the kitchen table not making eye contact staring fixedly at my plate, And I remember when I first got the guts to go out for a walk after an argument. He always used to threaten to call SS and once he left the DCs alone and went. He'd make me leave my wallet. And I jumped to try and engage with him. To make nice food, to greet him when he came in, to ask what he'd done and yes argue to get some sort of response. I do sort of understand how your various Hs are behaving. They are very, very confused and the sex thing is a normal clumsy bloke's way of attempting to make up. What they don't understand is that it is far beyond a spilled coffee or paying a bit more attention. I hope today is peaceful for you all

My research and conversations with Respect, have caused me to find a chap called Adam Jukes.

A cople of articles online, and books.

He explains the toddler thing well. That SOOO many men do not make the developmental break from their mothers in a healthy way (no shit sherlock) and this causes the toddler behaviour.

I'd love to hear it, thisis.

It's dreadful to see you say there's nothing left. There's you, a real live important human being, and your DCs and your music and everyone normal who likes you, and the slightly screwed-up people on MN who like you too! There's nothing for you inside those dark cupboards you've been locked in, true, but outside there's a whole load of new, much nicer cupboards to check. You just haven't learned how to look in them yet. You're in limbo at the moment - transition - you can't see the other side because you don't know what it looks like, but it is there, it is there for you. Life. Comfort. Serenity. 47 is young yet. I'm 52 and still waiting for "real" life to start! Perhaps I'd better get a move on as I don't have a whole century left - perhaps half a one.

You are on good form Annie and I second your posts to Hissy and Thisis. Being "in recovery" is a delicate process and a bit like hardening off a little plant out of the greenhouse. (I do like metaphors!) Take care of it and don't expose it to strong weather, heat or cold until it is hardy and it will flourish. It may need a stake to prop it up (that's us!).

Last night I watched the original Hollywood version of Jane Eyre with Joan Fontaine and Orson Welles. It was an appalling story of abuse! I am very intrigued to see whether the new version has been prettied up.

Small child brought up by abusive adults sent to repressive orphanage and taught to accept emotional verbal and physical abuse as her duty. Rebels and is punished many times. Escapes and enjoys relative happiness not being abused. Then meets (Alcoholic?) screwed up man who abuses her some more, so she falls in love with him as she is conditioned to. Abuse continues... but I won't spoil the ending for those of you who haven't read it and want to see the new film.

Look after yourselves today friends

www.myspace.com/rachelashley63

There's one called Serenity too.

I have one called Stepping Stone, which is about my breaking free from the witch. H was producing it, it's only half done. He said he'll finish it next week, but he won't :(

Rescue mission guys This poor poster little piglet needs our help. I hope she will come over here but she is struggling with Spaghetti Head Mess and her not so DH is videoing her distress.

God I HATE these bastard men!!!

Thisis you are awesome! I love your singing. Wish I had a talent like yours.WOW!!

thisis - I know about that that wish to still be in the ignorant phase. I went through that. Where does it leave you, you ask? It leaves you with truth. Ice cold, burning hot truth, and the ability to discover that blazing kernel right at the centre of you where you have always known you have a right to exist. It is very, very painful, because all the love, all the validation, all the tenderness has turned out to be a lie. But this is your life, you have a right to exist as you see fit, not as some abusive prick decides you should. And you know this.

Your voice is beautiful, I love the "Spaghetti Head Mess" image. If you are anything like me you will be mourning the artistic connection with your H - mine helped me write better and we wrote very well together. I miss that, but there is another collaborator out there for me, as there is for you.

Whoa... just come back in from shopping and listened to that track and to Never Give Up On Love. Please don't think I'm flattering to be supportive but fuck woman, you have a fabulous voice. I mean seriously fabulous. And they are good songs. I am going to force encourage my boys to put your tracks on their playlist (home lounge only, nothing commercial, sorry!).

No wonder that poor sick sod wanted to rip you apart. There's so much to rip. So much talent and sweetness.

Wow, so much food for thought on these pages (again)

Spaghetti head-mess - that's a very good way of describing what living with these ea idiots is like.

And emotional maturity of a toddler - nodded very hard at that as I used to think so often that my ex had a lot of toddler like behaviour and ways of talking/manipulating. Such as the 'puuurleease mummy' style of whining for sex (shudder) followed by foot stamping style of sulking if the answer was no and finally 'you don't love me any more' if he still couldn't whine me around.

Urgh, urgh, urgh!! To think i ever believed this was normal behaviour for an adult amazes me now.

Sorry for mammoth post but just want to log an insight I've had his weekend.

Have been having recurring dreams about my first ever boyfriend (@ 18 years old, typical strong teenage feelings etc)

They just kept coming though and were so vivid emotionally that eventually I said to myself 'ok, fine, let's think about this then' and I suddenly realised that I haven't had a relationship where I was really in love with the other person and/or had ANY real love, kindness, affection since I was 18!!!

Especially the sort of simple affection that is not designed to get me 'warmed up' for sex in a matter of seconds but is just because.

Oh and recent ex p was more emotionally controlling than I realised. Affection of the hand holding, hugging etc kind was only really allowed when he instigated it. If it was me doing it, something was always wrong (weather too hot for hand holding etc) or I didn't hug him the 'right' way or for long enough and so on.

When I eventually gave up on instigating anything like that I'd get no end of grief for it. P R A T!!!!

So, sometimes dreams can be useful :)

Hi Bibi good to see you this morning. I like your insights.

Great ticket seller you are. I hope littlepiglet is okay because that thread is desperately upsetting and if it was me I would be in pieces trying to take in what everyone is saying.

What I am struggling with is that despite my ability to pick horrid abusive men as boyfriends I still can't see where the programming came from.

I have loving parents together 50+ years who hardly ever argue, just bicker companionably. My mum is a bit passive aggressive but so kind and loving. My sibs are all happily married to nice people for over 20 years each. All the rot seems to come from my in-laws side.

The only damaging bit of my childhood seems to be the people pleaser gene and being sent away to boarding school for nine years to be taught by nuns that Men were Only After One Thing and it was My Duty as a Wife to submit.

I guess I was just unlucky to meet someone at twenty who passed on all his crap to me. I don't feel damaged! And the twat radar is on full power

Yes I saw your twat radar in full swing on your other thread littlehouse.

Didn't have time to join in though, I'm just so busy with RL now that I'm freeee :)

Great work putting the radar into action though!!

I do hope piglet finds her way here too, if nothing else at this stage. As I always say, this place is unique in raising awareness of just what these men are doing and are capable of, so therapeutic to be able to say 'no, it's not me, I'm perfectly sane!

I am beyond humbled. Thank you...in fact a bit tearful now.

When I wrote Spaghetti, i didn't know what I was writing about, it just came out. That sounds strange, but it was only looking back, after The Freedom Programme and therapy that I realised that my subconscious had already sussed it.

I look back at my writing from when I was a teenager, I wrote about my mum and sisters, a lot, and it's ony now that I am amazed at the insight of my own subconscious.

I wrote a song when I was about 16, called They're Right....(I am so wrong and they're right, they are so strong and they fight, they've nothing to lose so why fight)

I wrote a song with a friend, and when it was finished I played it to the Freaks. My sister (also a singer) said nothing, but stormed out of my house, slamming the door and did not speak to me again for many weeks afterwards.

I feel so self conscious and embarrassed talking about my songs. Always been a taboo you see. It was considered "disloyal" to goldenchild sister to not let her be the most important one.

Thank you for not storming off. This should probably be in STATELY HOMES.

BIBI I too am having the most extraordinary dreams too. They also link to the subconscious in such an extraordinary way. Maybe keep pen and paper close to your bed and write down what comes to you?

Have decided to go out tonight for coffee with someone I have chatted to online for two months. He has 18 bicycles and an allegedly very messy house but is very funny and sociable and has lots of friends. Not expecting much except a laugh and a chance to compare disaster dating stories.

Glad you are busy with RL too, but this thread needs light relief sometimes

littlehouse

Abandonement is incredibly damaging! Boarding school is abandonement. That's where it comes from! And then surrounded by nuns? Or dear.

Have you checked out Pete Walker's website? Beware...it's tough going on that site.

thisis - im looking forward to hearing your talent but need to get onto the laptop so flash player can be in action.

If only the darn car would let me off fussing him outside for two mins, grrrrrr.

There's a local music festival I went to this year which is still quite small but is designed for artists like you (as yet not signed and fairly unknown)

It was awesome though - the atmosphere was just great, appreciative audience etc.

If you'd be interested in performing at something like that then I'll mention you to the organisers (one of whom I work with)

Let me know, can't promise anything but you'll never know.

Then I can be a groupie and go 'yeah, of course I knew her before she was globally famous'

Car? Damn you Apple! Cat!

Great idea Bibi. We'll all come along thisis
I have a big tent and I love camping!

That's the spirit LittleHouse! Was just thinking the same!

Wouldn't that be lovely, introducing: thisishowifeel, with support by the MN posse :)

Having never been to anything like a festival I did wonder what sort of 'tree-hugging' lunacy I'd let myself in for but it really was lovely.

It's in it's fourth year now and proceeds all go to a youth charity, therefore food, drink etc is priced so you can actually afford to leave the camp stove at home and just have a great time.

I'll shut up about it for now as I'll out myself :) tickets for 2012 go on sale next month though so anyone interested just PM me and I'll carry on waxing lyrical there and provide details.

It should be in Stately Homes, but it should also be here. You see, in healthy families - and healthy marriages - if one person has talent they are admired and encouraged, not told to keep it under wraps. Even where there's a certain amount of sibling rivalry it leads to trying harder to prove you're better - the healthy side of competition. Just think how much timeless, beautiful music would never have been written if the Strauss family had said "Put that violin down, kid, there's only room for one genius in this family and that's your father."

I was just thinking along similar lines Annie - how talent can attract such jealousy from some quarters and how it can quashed so easily by unsupportive idiots!

Or the Bach family, or the Amis or the Brontes. Especially the Brontes. I have a feeling from the Jane Eyre film they were pretty fucked up too.

Bit overwhelmed. Thank you. Gulp.

The Bronte's, hmmm. I have to confess that Wuthering Heights is a favourite of mine. It probably shouldn't be.

xxx

Hello

Can I ask if any of you who have come out of the other side of this, do you still dream about your abuser? I do. I dream about us being together, about him being Nemo's dad, about him having so many women in tow but living with me.

It's awful. Now that I've opened one box, it seems to be happening more and more. I feel so vulnerable when he's inside my dreams. It's all still so vivid.

Last night he took Nemo away from me but I couldn't get to him. Things kept stopping me, fires, my mother needed me, DH went missing and DD was in hospital.... just constant walls stopping me get to my son.

I always wake feeling so angry and upset after dreams like that.

I'm thinking about hypnosis for the PTSD. Has anyone else tried this for the effects of abuse?

And I asked yesterday if I should get the Lundy book, I'm not sure what it's about or you think it will help me?

Finally managed to have a listen to your music thisis - GOOD LORD!!! You're faboulously talented!!

Amazing music!!! As someone else said upthread, no wonder the freak you were with wanted to stamp and stamp on that (that sort of mindset I mean)

Feel like a talent scout now (wonder what uniform I can wear for that :) )

Cannot wait to show this off to the festival organisers - is it time to go to work yet?

Sorry, bit much for you all of this 'fawning' all of a sudden I imagine but - WOW!!!