Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 4

[MadameOvary]

Hello everyone - end of last thread kind of took us by surprise!
Will copy in links etc

Ha ha ha foolonthehill, you can't get that genie back in the bottle now!

The answer is often, but not always, and this is why we have CAB and solicitors.

bejeezus, get some legal advice, get proof of payments of the asset purchases, photos if you have them.

I rather thought mediation would be a waste of time, but you tried, that seriously counts. both in your own mind and the courts.

WA deal with all sorts of cases. Financial abuse is not just about keeping her short of money, it's putting her in a situation where she has to do what she knows is not right.

Get some legal/CAB/WA advice. I'm inclined to believe that the situation is explained properly, if he did do that to his DC's mother report her the Benefits people, then tbh, the most they would probably do is arrange with you to repay the excess.

I'd pursue him through CSA. I'd offer him a charge on the property to the tune of his 'share' on the condition he signs it over to you. when you sell it, the amount of the charge is automatically given to him when funds are transferred to you for the sale.

That way he'd get his £4000, it'd be safe and he could pay you the maintenance money.

Ive been replaying the mediation session in my head;

At the end HE left in a fluffy of indignation and hurt feelings, I exited afterwards a bit embarrassed and uncomfortable. Little did mediator know, he drove home in MY car which he had borrowed earlier in the day, leaving me to get the bus home!

it says a lot that it has only NOW occured to me that this was a little unfair!

I hope you get some peace from all this for a moment, Bejeezus.
Do get as much advice as you can as to where you stand. Have no idea how quick a quickie divorce can be as never married, but it can't be done in a matter of weeks surely?
For me mediation was about contact as we'd always lived separately technically ... he went to solicitors initially and as condition of legal aid you have to attempt mediation.
Timeline isn't very clear in my head at all, but basically he didn't go when we were supposed to go together and since told me he wants no contact with DCs. Good thing is that decision is now all his. He can't go to court, I think, because I've flagged up concerns re abuse, convictions, made some offers via solicitor.
He is seriously weird - MH issues as well as other stuff and won't budge from what he thinks should happen despite what a sol would tell him, heard that he didn't feel his sol had really listened to his concerns.
So moving on and wondering how to deal with DS asking for his daddy. Am sad as hope one day he gets head sorted and listens to advice then comes back into DCs lives. But was reading another thread in which someone said leave it a month and then look back and think would it have been better or worse with H around? So am firmly convinced that however rubbish most of this summer has been, nothing could have changed really so have to say that summer better off without him. I think I will keep that in my head every time things get me down.

not sorted..
do that thing...when the pain dies down you can enjoy your DS in a loving, stable, free from anxiety environment.. you can bring DS up in stable balanced loving home and hopefully daddy stays away until ds can be concerned for him without being affected by him.....so sad for you and ds but the alternative is worse isn't it??

beejezus.. as far as I know you can't make binding lump sum deals wrt maintenance as you can STILL go through the csa irrespective of them. I know as I tried to do this in reverse (i.e no chance of getting maitenance so tried to get a tiny lump sum instead).. and was told it wouldn't be binding

So you could agree this then still go through the csa. However, he is defo pulling a fast one so I'd be inclined not to do deals (even when they prob aren't binding) because you owe him sod all with his other assets.. in fact he probably owes you as you will be resident parent.

I know its exhausting, but try to find the strength to keep fighting for what is fair.. you and dc's deserve it esp after all the crap you've been through.

As for mediation.. yup I just imagine it! :( x

Well this thread is concrete proof that mediation does not work and just gives them a nice big peg to hang their grievances on. I think they see it as an unsuspecting audience to get some sympathy out of.
Bejeezus, I know what you mean about just wanting him out, but could you try Hissy's suggestion?

"He left in a fluffy (flurry?) of indignation and hurt feelings"

bj my H would do that too with a bit of manly lip quivering and sniffling.

I spent last night having supper with a good friend who doesn't like my H writing a list of Unreasonable Behaviour for the divorce I am going to start.

I have realised that my plan of waiting for two years to do things "nicely" was just a way to avoid triggering him off again. If I accuse him of being Unreasonable he is going to be hurt/defensive/angry because it is all about him looking good and keeping his reputation as the wronged man who puts his DC first. (Apart from not insuring the car etc etc).

Should I offer him the chance to petition first? I could write a long list of my own failings for him to use. Or should I keep control of the process? I could give him a time limit and say if he hasn't done it by November I will.

I realise now that I am afraid of the reaction I will unleash just as things have become easier.

LittleHouse I also left my stbxh the choice for a while, because I wanted to be accomodating. And then I realised that 12 years of being accomodating with him hadn't been such a brilliant idea, so why continue? Since he was at the time still refusing to go to mediation, I just went ahead and filed for divorce. For me, it definitely felt like the right thing to take the action that would lead to the result I wanted: divorce. And not wait around for him to be "nice" or "reasonable", since he has amply proved that he can be neither of those things.

Quite satisfyingly, he has continued to consistently prove how entitled and plain bonkers he is since we split, so that helped to quell the "but what if...?" voice in my mind; the one that still wants to be nice and expect the best of people.

You are afraid of his reaction. Of course: you have been trained to be afraid of his reactions. What helped me with this fear was accepting that his reactions are his own choice: I cannot control them by trying to walk on eggshells. He will react the way he wants to; it's his choice. My choice is whether I want to continue to walk on eggshells during divorce proceedings, or say "fuck it!" and be true to myself.

Thanks Puppy, you are right. I am afraid and I am aware I am afraid too! That doesn't mean I can't do it though.

I have just been having coffee with another non-fan of H and discussed the financial side. She noticed I was getting upset and I was feeling bruised and defensive just talking it through with her.

I am in for a rough ride but as you said if it leads to the outcome I want then it is the right thing to take action.

I think I am ready and strong enough to do it. I am self aware enough to look after myself through it, and detached enough to see his games for what they are. I just need to keep it all very rational and unemotional if at all possible.

On the plus side I just remembered my last landlady owes me £950 so I can afford to start it all off! Hooray

Feeling a bit panicked and afraid too. Just burst into tears on the phone to sol. I haven't cried for such a long time, I used to cry everyday when I was with X.
I'm not sure all the stress is worth it. I'm thinking of saying I don't want anything. Don't think I'll get any more than half his pension from when we were married any way. And I don't want to land myself with a bbig legal bill that will have to be repaid from whatever I get.
Mediation is the other option, but I don't think I can face sitting in the same room with him. And it won't work. I think he's forcing it to court because he wants to see me in mediation. He wants to use it to get at me - or get back with me. He tried earlier this year - invited me to the theatre! (it was soo wierd)
Part of me thinks it would be good for me to face him in mediation, show him and myself I'm not scared of him.
Not sure why I'm posting really, it's just that I know you'll understand what the prospect of mediation feels like.
It's such a stupid stupid system. Why can't the solicitors just do it.

pickgo : breathe.

And another long slow breath.

OK? Right: do NOT give up and just hand it all over to him. You deserve to stand up for your rights. I'm not saying you should fight bitterly and go after him for every last point on his nectar card, (although he will certainly be acting along those lines), I just want you to feel deserving enough to ask for what is yours; for what is right. You deserve it.

Just like we spent too long not feeling we deserved respect in these shitty relationships, we shouldn't give up our self-respect in the divorce proceedings either.

Remember that these men are MANIPULATORS. What you are feeling right now is the result of manipulation. So stop thinking of him and predicting his acitons and motives, and instead look at yourself, at your needs. And then ask for those via your solicitor. You will be doing nothing more than a healthy defence of your rights.

Re mediation. Although I never got there, I did grow gradually calmer at the thought by
1: not being pushed to go on the date he suggested. I don't think it counts as being obstructive if you propose different date to give yourself time to think.
2: To write out salient points and polish them with help of RL advice.
3: To practice what you are going to say
4: To split it into different categories ie divorce, finances generally, house, DCs, future plans.
Little bites of the elephant iyswim
And Pickgo if you can talk again with that friend on same topic and see if you get less distressed, saying it out loud to anyone is scary but the more often you say it the less distressing it will be.

Thanx Itsme, it's great knowing you all understand on here.

I will speak to the sol again, but I know really in my heart of hearts I am not yet ready to face him (Ihope I never have to). I've just started the Lundy book and I am just starting to realise how skewed and unhealthy my relationships with X was. In other words I'm starting to realise how much is wrong with me that led to putting up with such a bad relationship.

Bottom line is I don't think I'm capable of fighting my corner with him, I don't trust myself. And i don't think I can handle any more self-reproach when I come out feeling guilty and probably having signed over my house to him or something else as silly.

You're not going to be in the arena fighting your corner: your solicitor will be. Think of him/her as your buffer against your ex.

And give yourself some slack: whatever you end up doing will be what you were capable of doing at the time. From your last message, it sounds like you haven't worked through the "it's my fault that I let a shit relationship happen" stage, so obviously you are feeling full of self-reproach.

But this too will pass. You will get to a stage where you stop blaming yourself for staying. And you can treat your divorce proceedings the same way: do the best you can with the knowledge and resources you have right now. That's the most you can ask of yourself.

If, later on, you realise that you could have fought more, that's good: it'll mean that you've reached a place where you are better aware of your worth. The fact that you weren't self-confident in the past and still aren't completely self-confident now is something that you can't change in an instant, but that time will heal.

That's funny pickgo my H invited me to the football last week and I politely declined (thinking WTF??)

I think while it helps to portray them as monsters they are also hurt and sad that the relationship has ended and are not abusive all the time. So sometimes there is a gesture of friendship or kindness that just throws you off balance and keeps you from hardening up completely.

Having obtained deposit money I forgot about (Wahoo) I can wildly insure/MOT car and house and pay the dentist and have enough left over for a divorce! Last of the big spenders!

I went to mediation with my first h.

Total waste of time and effort. No worse than that, it gave him the opportinity to abuse me some more in front of a new person. Fabbo...(twat)

I remember quite clearly him saying.."of course I do porn, any man would have to, being married to that". and pointing at me. He spat whilst saying it. The venom was palpable. I wonder if his third wife has fucked him off yet? I once had a VERY interesting conversation with his first...he was exactly the same with her.

You know...it's funny, I seem to be facing up to the abuse in my first marriage finally. I never did before. It was just all so normal to me then. That was the way my family was with me too.

Fuck. :(

He used to poke me up the bottom...in public...ALL the time and think it was hysterical. He did it really hard. It hurt. It never occured to me that he was physically abusing me.

He did it going up the stairs to the room at relate for our appointments. AND I NEVER SAID ANYTHING!

i NEVER SAID ANYTHING..why not? I just belonged to them all to do what they wanted to me...all of them. And the minute I ever got pissed off or withdrawn, it was because I was insane.

Fucking bastards. I fucking HATE them all..and everything they have done to me over the years. Bastard, bastard twats.

Oh and did I mention what fucking bastard twats they all are?

AAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHH.

Yey Go for it tihif anger is great! Plant it where it belongs on those Losers! Then use the energy to boost yourself and improve your own life to get back at them all.

The best revenge is to live well, said somebody

lots of things to think about there, thanks so much for your replies, they have helped me calm down.

My X would never be openly aggressive in front of someone else, but is very manipulative and subtle. It used to take me a few hours to work out and articulate what was wrong with what he was saying... by which time he'd moved on to something else and I was left feeling impotent and confused. I'm not stupid or inarticulate but I just don't think like him... and I don;t want to. In fact I tried very hard not to start thinking like him. I hate him I really do for the misery he put me and my DC through.

If I ended up agreeing to something stupid in mediation would the solicitor reject it and make us do it again?

tihif you said just what I was thinking

Hello.

Sorry to have been awol for so long. I've been lurking and reading. So many stupid fecking nobbers out there. How on earth do they find us?

TIHIF - I used to get that in public. My XP (read Twatty McTwatface) used to pinch my bottom really hard. He would bruise me. That was way before the regular beatings and rapes started. It's strange really, you don't realise just how much they do to you until they stop.

When they are out of your life, you rewind time and realise just what it was you went through.

Just a note of reassurance pickgo
If you do have to go to mediation google DA/EA and mediation. There are some guidelines and in many cases - like couples counselling - there are sound reasons for not doing it (though some mediators do think they can do it). You should get a short amount of time each alone with mediator to explain background, or you can ask for it although to be fair the ex will get the same time. Or write a summary of the main points and give it to mediator at assessment meeting. Your sol should be able to advise you too. Is s/he a member of resolution?

Thanks notsorted.

I probably will be advised not to go to mediation - that's what happened last time. The mediator sol just put DV on the form and said the case was unsuitable.

But the alternative of going to court will be so expensive that any financial gain from going to court will have to have legal aid deducted (about £5k sol said), so I'm not sure it's worth it. That's why I'm thinking of just forgetting the whole thing.
It does rankle, it doesn't feel totally right to just let the him or the system basically force me to back down... but I don't think ultimately it's going to be worth continuing.