to tell DH to stop acting like a petulant stroppy toddler

[BringOnTheSunshine]

and to get a grip!

I have also posted this in behaviour.

Background bit: DS 4 1/2, DD 2 1/2. I work 12.5 hours at the weekend and DH works M-F 12 hour shifts.

I am currently at loggerheads with DH about his, in my opinion, unreasonable expectations about the behaviour of our children.

He has been on holiday this week (he did DIY all week) and I have been taking the kids out every day so he gets peace to work. Wed night he is tired and getting grumpy with us all...fair enough, he is tired! He stops talking except to give one word answers. Thursday evening at dinner DD falls off the dining chair after numerous tellings to sit still. DH blows up and starts shouting at me for not watching her.... he was standing behind her chair and I was sitting two chairs away still attempting to eat my own dinner. We have words in the other room about him shouting at me and he goes back to one word answers.

We decided to spend yesterday out of the house together so he gets at least one day of rest. It starts badly as I put the wrong bin out...first time in 12 years, and he starts ranting about me spending all my time sitting about reading books or on the computer rather than doing what I am "suppose to do". We spent the entire 1 1/2 hour journey there barely speaking. We went to a local attraction, got lunch in a restaurant and were suppose to take the kids on a boat ride at the lake but DH stormed to the car in a toddler huff and we ended up going home.... again he wasn't speaking to any of us.

I dropped him at home and took the kids out and didn't come home till 7pm. He had slept on the chair the whole time. He got up to eat his dinner then went back to the couch. He didn't speak or interract with any of us until the kids were in bed then he told me they were "doing his head in"

This evening after another similar day of ignoring the kids and giving me single word answers I decided I was beyond pissed off and asked him what his problem is.

The list of complaints include our children being too loud. too boisterous, too whiney and they behaved "like animals" at the restaurant.

They were not shouting or screaming, but DS has a habit of talking loudly when excited. He needs frequent reminders to lower his volume but he was not disturbing other diners. At one point both children put their heads down on the seat and were told to sit up, which they did. DD dropped her fork twice. The first time when we arrived and she started playing with them as I was taking off jackets etc and the second when she was eating and it fell. Both ate the food that was served. They were not throwing food, climbing over us to get out the booth. Running around the chairs, screeching, swearing or hitting people. I actually thought they behaved reasonable well.

The problem we both agree on is the moaning, huffing and generally irritating behaviour that drives us both bonkers. They whined about one wanted to see one thing, another something else. DS went huffy because DD sat beside me and he wanted to...But I have also pointed out that this is NORMAL.

This evening he told me that I am obviously not discipling them enough as they have to be told 100 + times not to jump on the couch, to sit still at the table, to speak quietly and not shout.

I say ... they are 2 and 4 get a bloody grip.

so AIBU or is DH right?

sorry for hijack, just knew you'd understand

Made me think of Blethermouses DH being unable to handle stress. He can't work out timing for something he has done before but it is your fault. Oh yes, that is one more of your jobs...organising his times. I have to work out what time dh needs to get up for work depending on him using the running machine or not....and set the alarm. I have to phone in sick for his work too. Yet we are the disorganised and incompetent people.

So he would be sorted at work by 16:30 leaving 2 1/2 hours before he has to be at the airport. Plenty of time to pack. Or does he want you to pack his bags. Was that the real point of the call.....look at me working so hard, (while you relax at home) and I am sooo busy I haven't have time to pack so will have to find time to do that too....(does he think you should have anticipated this)

rant away. I don't need to hogg this thread. It is nice, (??) to share the trials with other people going through the same...or further on.

blethermouse, single parenting is easier. done both.

what on earth do you get out of being with these men? i tried to fight for my relationship, but in the end he still thought it more important to get to his mums on time than to take time out to calm down, and that after a 6 month dv course. if he does not want to change, he is not going to change. if he sayys he wants to chnge yet does nothing about it, or next to nothing, what are you going to believe, his actions or his words? it is not worth it. being a single parent is a lot better than living with someone who is aabusive, though I am still in transition.

give yourselves time to think and work out what you want to do.

Well he changed in that he no longer behaves in the same way.
But why he behaved like that when "allowed" to is one issue.

I want to be on my own and am financially and emotionally viable but am trying to do the least damaging thing for the dc... and am not sure what that is.

know that feeling. that is why i tried to make it work for so long. If he has changed it sounds promising.

Hi again. well we had a huge argument this evening. He was angry with the kids for being ungrateful....they didn't want the toy he won on the machine. He told ds to shut up then to shut the fuck up and I lost it. I tried to be rational and explain how being irritated is normal but shouting and swearing isn't etc. He went on about the house not being clean enough, the kids poor behaviour, I am lazy..."what do you do all day" blah blah because everyone else manages, everyone elses kids.......

He threatened to leave a couple of times and told me to fuck off once...as in leave. Then he smashed the remote for the TV and has locked himself in the toilet not speaking to anyone.

I have to work in 25 mins and am unsure wether he plans to come out.

what a tw**
For tonight you either have to all in sick or take the kids to your family or friends and leave him to it

The call him on threatening to leave.

Tell him to leave for a trial separation as things have got that bad.
If necessary you can be granted compassionate leave.
This is absolutely NOT ON
for you

Hi OP.. did you get to work ?
How's things

Hi. I called in sick and took the kids to my cousins house. I told them we were having a sleepover. His reaction was "that is twice you have been off work in the last few weeks" (D&V two weeks ago) asking why I don't trust him with the kids and telling me just to take them and go. No contact since

OP, have you considered that your H behaves as he does because he considers that he is the important one in the family, and that you are just there to cook and clean and be his general dogsbody? And likewise that your DC are there to be 'showroom' children who make him look good when you are out and about but are to be seen and not heard (and certainly to not make any demands on him) the rest of the time?

Of course he is going to get angry and stroppy when you and the DC act as if you are full individuals with opinions and desires and needs of your own, that is not part of the deal as far he is concerned - you are just the supporting characters and he is the star of the show.

If you're on a day out and he decides that you're going home right now then onbviously you will leave right now, YABVVU to imagine that your or the DCs opinions would matter anywhere near as much as his in this situation. And of course, if he says your house isn't clean enough then you should unquestioningly accept that he is right. You are his subordinate after all, and he is the one that decides how hard you should be working.

Any of this ringing a bell for you OP?

BringOnTheSunshine, my ex was spookily like yours and it totally ground me down. He would erupt at the children for doing normal childish things especially in public where they were expected to act a certain way. He also moaned about "the state of the house" but never did much to help with cleaning/organising it! I started telling the kids to not shout too loud on the trampoline,stay quiet when we ate dinner basically walking on eggshells to placate him. It got to the point where I realised by allowing this to happen I was part of it too and made the decision to split. Since then my children are happier, I am more relaxed and my house is how I like it!
Stay strong xx

But don't move out. He is the one that needs to go.
Go and get some legal advice. Many solictors do a free initial session.

I came back home this afternoon and he wasn't in. He had slept in ds bed and left his wedding ring in the bathroom. He came back at 1 ish and I let the kids play in the garden while I told him how he treated us and how we all feel etc. I said if he wasn't willing to change...anger management/parenting then he should leave as he was not welcome in our family. Also that if he left he would not get back in because I am not willing to put up with his shit any more. He said he is staying....I have yet to hear an appology or even have a discussion with him. I am not overly optimistic about his ability to change but I have said we can try.

He knows I have destroyed his Mr laid back, perfect family, image with my close friends and his mother (although I take every word she speaks with a tub of salt) as I felt it was about time I got real support rather than pretending and putting on the "show" My work are aware of the basic situation and have offered time off, I am just to phone during the week if I can't make my shifts.

I am tired and switching between crying and like a load is lifted.

Good - well done for making it all crystal clear to him. Whether he can actually act on it is I suppose another issue.

NotDavidTennant, It all rings bells. I can see him for who he is...nothing like the laid back family man persona he shows to others. My eyes are open and my brain is switched on and I know I can manage alone. I have always known I could...hell, I have been essentially a single parent since we had kids.

I was prefer him to be with me and the kids, but I can live without him, and he can still be a father....as long as he sorts out his anger!

bitsnbobs, exactly right! the kids are everything bad, noisy, undisciplined, ungrateful etc. ...nothing like I, or any other person (including MIL) knows them to be.

Katisha, No fear, I am going nowhere. The kids are settled here with friends next door and school down the road. I am not moving. He has been told that he will be leaving if he doesn't change.

I am not a hysterical person, I have never told him to leave before. I am totally serious and I am sure he believes me....but even if he doesn't, I don't give a crap because his stuff will be packed and he will be out.

Another good reason for telling my cousin is that she has been through similar including physical...she is in a loving relationship now....and she is straight to the point and honest.

I read this thread down as far as Snuppeline's post, and then sped read to the end, because what she said is exactly what I was going to say. I grew up with this atmosphere and it was toxic. Whoever said the scars will last 30 years was not joking.

My father's black moods pervaded the house. We were expected to be model, 'seen and not heard' children. We only ever had any fun with my Mum when Dad wasn't around. We couldn't have friends round. There was widespread panic if anything ever got broken because we knew there'd be shouting, contempt, anger and a mood that lasted for days. My Mum got very good at being devious and hiding things - as did we. I remember I tripped and fell down the stairs one day - all the way from the top to the bottom. The bruises were spectacular. When I came to a stop; rather than shout or cry, I held my breath and waited for the roar from Dad. It came. I got such a telling off for disturbing the peace.

When we went to events with other families, we couldn't go and play. We had to look immaculate and sit quietly with the adults not talking. We just had to be perfect.

Things couldn't be more different now. My mother left when I was 16. Dad finally got counselling and sorted himself out. Mum remarried and is so far removed from the meek, frightened little mouse she was (which she never should have been. She is the strongest, most capable, intelligent, educated, independent woman, but had just been squashed for so long) and I have rebuilt a relationship with my Dad, who is now supportive and caring and fun to be with.

I think the point of this is that, for your children's sanity, please do something about this. If he won't get help then please leave him. It doesn't have to be forever, but for as long as it takes for him to realise that he needs help and can't carry on like this. He must just be completely miserable. You must be completely miserable. My sister and I have both had counselling for low self-esteem and depression. We are both usually on ADs. It is completely down to being constantly told we were a nuisance and too loud and too scruffy and too...well...childish as children. I'm not sure we'll ever truly get over it. I've had conversations with Dad about it and he's now devastated that he put us through it. I would hate for your DH to be confronted by your DC in 30 years time and have to deal with the guilt. This is the perfect time to nip it in the bud.

Good luck, OP

BOTS - just out of interest, when you were leaving the kids with him for the day when you had your shift, what exactly did he get done during the day apart from look after them - and what had they generally done?

DH always used to look rather at me in terms of the state of the house when I wasn't working and 'just' looking after DS. I then had a day where I normally cared for ds, but needed to be away - so DH took the day off. I gave him the routine, told him where he needed to be when, and had things all planned out for him - he managed to miss one thing - just couldn't fit it in. And of course the house was in a worse state than it was normally when he would normally get in.

So - for your day working, do you leave all food ready for them? Is the house spotless when you get back? etc etc... He can't expect you to do it if he can't do it himself. In my experience looking after ds is just if not more tiring than doing a full days' work. Depends on the work of course - but true for me!

mistlethrush, When I am working he usually goes to his mums with a McDonalds and falls asleep on the chair for a couple of hours. I have had both MIL and DS tell me that when they make a mess....drag out every toy from every box in the house or garden....he has told them to leave it for me to tidy. There are times he will put on/out a washing or mop the floors but they are very infrequent. There are times he will take the dc to a park, also infrequent (though he expects a bloody medal for any additional activity). Some days he spends "loafing" so the kids don't get dressed at all. Those are the days my house is destroyed as he lets them do it while he loafs about wrapped in a blanket.

I end up working 12.5 hours then coming home to "help" get the kids ready and into bed. If I am angry enough the adrenaline helps me spend 1 - 2 hours clearing up while he mutters "leave it, we will get it later" (never happened yet) Other than that I spend the next day trying to tidy the mounds of crap, (unless he is off the next day and we must go out and participate in "family activities" and it remains a shit hole till Monday) while being unable to accomplish any of the other things I wanted/needed that day.

I worked at easter and came home to two kids who had eaten nothing but chocolate all day with every toy scattered, chocolate thrown around the rooms, chocolate handprints on every wall and my clean washing pile. DD then spent the night puking...ended up being Rotovirus...but WTF!

But "you only work one day, I work 60+hours per week, i'm tired"

Ranty ranty ranty. I guess I am angry today.

I sometimes come to work for a rest....

OK - so he either does nothing with the kids and hardly anything with the house - or lets someone else do it all - and hasn't even the good grace to do bedtime one evening a week - when you've had a 12.5 hr at work - and yet, when he's had the same day at work and you with the children, suddenly, miraculously, everything is meant to be perfect?

Don't stand for it! Working all day is not an excuse for a father not to spend sometime with his children and help out around the house. Parenting is all about partnership - at the moment you're getting a bad deal, and so are the children.

If he wants perfection in the house, you should suggest that you get a housekeeper in for 90mins everyday before he gets in - that way you get to concentrate on the children and yet you don't have the thought of him coming home and being judgemental every evening clouding the whole day.

I typed out a long post on this thread last night and then promptly lost it. My exh also very much like this.

One thing is not to worry how your ex would cope on his own. Mine found a new woman within months and is getting married soon and has two more dcs, whereas I have remained single (not without male company though but very wary of having another man living with me - in case they turn out like he did).

Although I am sure he was EA one thing I do have difficulty getting my head around is that he seems to be different that with her (so was it me) - my dcs tell me that he speaks differently to me than her, speaks differently to them when she is not around and is totally different when they are all together - in the former two situations with contempt and through gritted teeth and in the latter with a pleasant veneer. Whether this will change over time I don't know but the difference is that in the new relationship she holds the power in terms of finance and housing.

But he certainly ground me right down to the point where my friends were commenting on it. And when I did the dancing round with dcs or singing he would either give me a withering look or tell me to stop in very exasperated tone. That was totally deflating.

Would also come back from overseas trips and moan about the state of the house (I was working ft and coping with the dcs).

And made snide remarks about weight and what women should wear. Also withheld sex and refused to do anything to address the problem until ultimately I didn't want to do it with him anyway.

Good luck op - I know how draining it can be to be constantly squashed and be living on eggshells.

Oh and he is obssessed with the dcs appearance and hates them to get dirty in any way. He spoilt ds1s 9th birthday when he returned home on the way to a sports event he was taking him to saying there was a spot on his top and he had to change!! WTF

And recently rung me to tell me what to send ds1 in to the birthday party of his new dcs. It had to be some clothes he had recently bought them (mine clearly not good enough). So even post divoice he tries to control and belittle me.

sincitylover, I am not concerned about him coping alone if we do split. He is an adult and TBH unless it is anything to do with the kids, It is irrelevent to me.

Of course, I am saying this while angry so I am sure I am being overly optimistic about my strength

I am a practical/rational, organised and determined person. I think things through before I make a decision. Once the decision is made, I make plans to implement it and keep going until it is done. He knows that about me! It is part of why he married me. In this instance I will work with him/us as far as we are able but if he doesn't change, he is out! I have no time or interest in dedicating my life and my kids future/happiness to an arse. There is a line and he pissed on it.

Well you sound pretty strong to me, Bringon, and I am convinced you will be fine and far better off without him.

Good for you. I really hope things work out and rest assured you are doing exactly the right thing. Your children will thank you for this one day (or they should) and hopefully he will too - if this gives him a kick up the arse to sort himself out.

Good - sorry maybe it was another poster who said that.

Reading this thread has made me realise how much I need to detach from everything to do with ex but its as if I am trying to get closure and sense out of what happened during our marriage - it was something I had never experienced in a relationship before.

If he would even acknowledge it- it would be good. Do emotional abusers ever acknowledge their behaviour do you think?