to tell DH to stop acting like a petulant stroppy toddler

[BringOnTheSunshine]

and to get a grip!

I have also posted this in behaviour.

Background bit: DS 4 1/2, DD 2 1/2. I work 12.5 hours at the weekend and DH works M-F 12 hour shifts.

I am currently at loggerheads with DH about his, in my opinion, unreasonable expectations about the behaviour of our children.

He has been on holiday this week (he did DIY all week) and I have been taking the kids out every day so he gets peace to work. Wed night he is tired and getting grumpy with us all...fair enough, he is tired! He stops talking except to give one word answers. Thursday evening at dinner DD falls off the dining chair after numerous tellings to sit still. DH blows up and starts shouting at me for not watching her.... he was standing behind her chair and I was sitting two chairs away still attempting to eat my own dinner. We have words in the other room about him shouting at me and he goes back to one word answers.

We decided to spend yesterday out of the house together so he gets at least one day of rest. It starts badly as I put the wrong bin out...first time in 12 years, and he starts ranting about me spending all my time sitting about reading books or on the computer rather than doing what I am "suppose to do". We spent the entire 1 1/2 hour journey there barely speaking. We went to a local attraction, got lunch in a restaurant and were suppose to take the kids on a boat ride at the lake but DH stormed to the car in a toddler huff and we ended up going home.... again he wasn't speaking to any of us.

I dropped him at home and took the kids out and didn't come home till 7pm. He had slept on the chair the whole time. He got up to eat his dinner then went back to the couch. He didn't speak or interract with any of us until the kids were in bed then he told me they were "doing his head in"

This evening after another similar day of ignoring the kids and giving me single word answers I decided I was beyond pissed off and asked him what his problem is.

The list of complaints include our children being too loud. too boisterous, too whiney and they behaved "like animals" at the restaurant.

They were not shouting or screaming, but DS has a habit of talking loudly when excited. He needs frequent reminders to lower his volume but he was not disturbing other diners. At one point both children put their heads down on the seat and were told to sit up, which they did. DD dropped her fork twice. The first time when we arrived and she started playing with them as I was taking off jackets etc and the second when she was eating and it fell. Both ate the food that was served. They were not throwing food, climbing over us to get out the booth. Running around the chairs, screeching, swearing or hitting people. I actually thought they behaved reasonable well.

The problem we both agree on is the moaning, huffing and generally irritating behaviour that drives us both bonkers. They whined about one wanted to see one thing, another something else. DS went huffy because DD sat beside me and he wanted to...But I have also pointed out that this is NORMAL.

This evening he told me that I am obviously not discipling them enough as they have to be told 100 + times not to jump on the couch, to sit still at the table, to speak quietly and not shout.

I say ... they are 2 and 4 get a bloody grip.

so AIBU or is DH right?

I do understand why he is fed up and grumpy. He works long hours in a job he doesn't like, but there is very little else out there. He spent another holiday doing DIY and I spent another holiday alone with the kids and we are both fed up. He wanted to do DIY...even though we have money to pay for someone else to do it??? I did what I could to help. I took the kids out specifically so he would get peace with his power tools. Trailing two "bored" kids ouside for hours every day was less than fun...but I think he prefers to skip over that part.

You are right, he resents the fact that I got to "swan" about while he worked. I didn't mop the floors ... he was constantly walking in and out to cut wood in the garage ...in the rain. I didn't see the point. I got to read some of my book once the kids were in bed... he was on the computer We sat together to watch a dvd...but he wasn't talking to me .

He believes I spend "half my day on the computer or reading rather than doing what I should be" My pre DC house was kept spotless, show home clean. I can't, and won't keep the same standards now, so he thinks I am being lazy. Our house is organised and tidy. I keep it that way by constantly picking up, doing washing etc. Everything has a place and I don't like clutter. BUT I might not have managed to hoover or mop the floors or dusted the lights. I use the internet for banking, shopping, paying bills, road tax etc and have a spreadsheet budget & gift list so obviously I have to use the computer. I also set up a profit/loss spread sheet for his ebay business, (he is attempting to start one any way) which took me a few hours one weekend.

He wants the house to be sparkely and me to entertain the kids at the same time. I say it is unrealistic...and again...he is also setting me up to fail.

(I am aware that I have spent some of the past couple of days on the computer with this thread but I haven't been on mumsnet for a couple of months)

Unfortunately we have very little support from family/friends or childcare so I have limited options. I have managed to arrange ...first time ever... a two night break away with DH by splitting the nights between my mum and cousin.

VelveteenRabbit

I do feel a whole lot like that. He wants me to make decisions but they are generally wrong! and I should have known to do/not do whatever. I feel like I am walking on eggshells waiting for him to approve/disapprove everything.
He shouts over me when we disagree and it is a rare time I feel he has actually listened. He doesn't shout and swear as a daily thing but it is too many times for me to accept as normal.

I feel him looking over the house judging me, he asks what I have done today etc but I feel he is really meaning "look what you haven't done" He doesn't shout at me, just gives me a look... then if we argue a few weeks later he brings up the state of the house. His anger is so unpredictable. Some things he will shrug at other times he will go into a rage for even the slightest most ridiculous thing.

I have covered up for the children when they have marked the carpet with a felt tip...DS left his pens on the floor in his room an dd got hold of them. I have told them off quietly when we are home because I don't want them being shouted at by him...his main reaction. I do feel his discipline is way OTT. He shouts at them for everything, bangs his hand on chairs and tables to scare them or makes them sit on a chair or go to their rooms. I am not talking about 1 min for every year type time out. He leaves them for 20 - 30 mins.

Like I said the last few months have been eye opening for me talking . I have stood back and looked at our relationship and behaviour towards each other and was shocked at how far I have allowed him to take control.

I have been trying to get back to myself! I am refusing to allow him to shout at, belittle or bully me without calling him on it. I point out when he is wrong and am very clear what I want....although it is a daily work in progress.

But that is all me....I need to make him realise his behaviour is unacceptable to me and the DC. I think parenting classes for both of us would be a good start. I know I don't claim to be miss perfect either. We both need some intervention.

It is hard to imagine starting this conversation with him. We are all talking again and he is back to being playful happy dad. Usually I have just been glad everything is "normal" again, but this time I am not willing to just breeze along waiting for the hammer to drop again.

Also...I do challenge his behaviour towards the kids ...not just towards me.

I have asked for this thread to be moved to relationships as it is turning into something more complicated than AIBU or is DH

Thanks for all your replies

Agree with other posters. Is disciplining your job alone? Even if he is not that much of a new age father generally, surely discipline is traditionally something that fathers do get involved in?

PS I don't think you're unreasonable. I'm 31 weeks pregnant with a toddler and I'm being a bit petulant and stroppy at the moment. DH has put up with it for a while but last night put his foot down and reminded me I am not three and no matter how tired I am I can still choose to behave like an adult most of the time and that he was sick and tired of it.

Of course we had a row but in the cold light of day I see he was absolutely right - I am making more of an effort now and I needed a kick up the bum - I actually feel happier that he is not letting me get away with it.

Does your DH ever see your point or try to put things right?

PPS My DH has just spent two weeks decorating our new top floor conversion, from dawn to night to get it finished. I also contributed a lot towards this project, by caring for DD 24/7, doing all the cooking and washing and generally keeping everything going (on top of being pregnant).

My DH wouldn't dream of suggesting I'd been doing nothing for two weeks!

You sound like me, but about 10 years ago. He worked full time, and I was a SAHM, and 'sat on my arse and did little'.

I was set up to fail in everything - I was even criticised when I put dd in her baby seat in the bathroom when I had a shower - apparently it meant I wasn't taking care of her properly.

He quite clearly expects to rule over the house with everyone behaving as he thinks they should; You working your bum off and the children being seen and not heard, and to a degree scared of their father. (This was how my dh was raised, and this is what he expected to do with his dcs - and I was supposed to know this by mind-reading )

This was how my dh was many years ago - and it took a while to get past it. I was very vocal about how the children would be affected by his behaviour, and also took to loudly wishing that I had two children, not three; stating that I wished I had the luxury of only one emotion (anger) & what a time saver that would be ()but I couldn't do that because I had other people to think about.

I really wish I had words of wisdom that would make things easier (((hugs)))

Sounds really difficult OP. Suspect that it's him, not you or the kids, that's the problem.

imo men who set high standards for their partners when it comes to parenting and domestics as though they're the king of the castle and their wives the maid / nanny are often not the best fathers or partners and flounder when required to do stuff themselves!

With respect to your not challenging him when he speaks to you badly, how he speaks to you is just as important as how he speaks to the dcs, both for the sake of you, your relationship, and the dcs.

You should stop doing all the domestic work - it's too much.

Him working hard or doing diy or whatever is no excuse. And if he has a mental health problem, he needs to seek advice, not make everyone miserable.

See from your shifts that the two of you have no days at all at home together - one of you is always working. That must be hard. Is there any way you could both work in the week, eg get childcare, to give you all more time together.

My best friend's ex was a lot like this. She was run ragged even before dcs (housework, pussyfooting around his temper and moods etc) and it just got worse afterwards. In the end she left him and, strangely, he is now more reasonable and respectful towards her (eg in discussing issues to do with the dcs) than he ever was when they lived together.

In that case, the man also had some issues with drink or drugs, which contributed to the problems.

Do your friends and family like him?

Also, you may not be perfect, but sounds like you're trying really, really hard, with him and the DCs, the domestics and work. He does not.

I spent the time my father was in the house as a child walking on eggshells. Anything normal children would do would have him flying into a rage, particularly things like not sitting still at the table, talking to loudly or playing (yes just playing!). He expected us dc from an early age to be able to cope and do things children a lot older weren't expected to do. I remember never feeling properly comfortable with him around. And I used to dread his holidays. I call them his because they were never anything to do with us as a family. He took time of work and it meant the end of all joy for me and my brother as we couldn't play with freedom and anything we did would get him angry. His moods also permiated the house and he would frequently sit and stare at the wall not allowing television, radio or much talking. We also always had to do things that he wanted to do not necessarily because he demanded that we did but perhaps as much because my mom couldn't face the temper or backlash of trying to get him to do things that he didn't want to do. So we never did we do things us children might have liked to do (zoo, activities, parks, swimming - only ever done with just my mom). So on a weekend he would dictate the telly and evening entertainment and he would sit around the house being grumpy.

My dad has been diagnosed with mental health issues but frankly those are not excuses in my mind. Particularly since he never bothered to get help for it, telling me that we as a family weren't worth the bother to him. So in my mind some people are just so selfish that they cannot see how their own behaviour impact on others, in fact some are so selfish they don't realise they live in a house with other people. If your dh is anything like my dad, which he sounds like he is or is beginning to be like, then it will be up to you to put boundaries in place to constrain his grumpyness and prevent it blighting your dc lives. Sorry if I'm being a bit intense (I obviously don't know your family) but this is an issue I'm very emotional about.

"I have covered up for the children when they have marked the carpet with a felt tip...DS left his pens on the floor in his room an dd got hold of them. I have told them off quietly when we are home because I don't want them being shouted at by him..."

That's exactly what my mother used to do to protect me and my brother

It's not right is it?

BOTS,

What you write sounds completely miserable for the children as well as yourself but both of you are imparting damaging lessons to them. What are you both teaching them about relationships here?. That is a question that needs to be asked.

Another question for you is what are you getting out of this relationship now?.

Does he act like this around other people like for instance your parents, his parents?. What's he like with other people?. My guess is that he behaves entirely differently and not like this at all around others.

I do wonder about the effectiveness of anger management in such circs if the above is the case.

I would go to Relate and on my own if your DH refuses (as he could well do).

Also to my mind the phrase "walking on eggshells" is another way of saying "living in fear".

From what you write he is currently in the "nice" phase of the cycle of abuse. However, the nasty phase will soon reassert itself.

He learnt all this from somewhere, was his parents relationship a difficult one?

Sorry but he sounds very very controlling to me. So he can be loud and a joker when he feels like it, but then its wrong when everyone else feels like it.... so only ok on his terms.

Dunno OP but it sounds very difficult. You're not his servant (which is how he's treating you IMO).

As for walking on egg shells... not good!
I don't want to shout 'abuse' but he does sound a bit that way to be honest. Have you read the Lundi Bancroft book. I think you'll find him in there.

Bearskinwoolies: I think he doesn't realise how bad it is. I have spoken in a previous name about mine and DH upbringing being crap. Mine was neglect his was every abuse except sexual. I think he believes that as he isn't hitting them he isn't hurting them....or me. That doesn't make his behaviour acceptable, I know. Just what I suspect.

I am hoping this is not going to be the end of us...I am hoping we can work for the same goal, but I know love isn't enough of an excuse to stay in this position.

Dozer: I am actually ashamed that I have let it get this bad. It is something hidden behind the door, I have only started talking about it with family recently. I have started challenging his behaviour and attitude over the last few moths. I am fed up being stood on.

I feel now that all of his complaints/justification for being short tempered, impatient and aggressive attitude are a pile of shitty excuses. I told him to get a grip, grow up and stop behaving like my third child. I am fed up with excuses. I get frustrated etc but I can't just ignore the kids and sleep all day when the mood takes me. I refuse to send them to their room for ages because they irritated me and I don't want to deal with them.

He works m-f and I work a single 12.5 hr shift either sat or sun so we actually have one day together. We do try to make this a family day and take the kids to visit family, parks etc. To be honest it doesn't change my day if we are off together or not. It still involves me doing the cooking/cleaning/child care etc and I am expected to feel he has contributed when he irons our clothes in the morning.

Snuppeline: That sounds so sad. I dread this happening although I actually scarily relate to come of that. He picks what we do and if he doesn't want to do something he won't. One weekend we arranged to go to B & Q then my mums. We went to the shop then he decided he wasn't going....totally wasted an hour of my time because there was no need for me to be there while he looked at bits of wood...not to mention dragging the dc around a boring shop with me trying to control two whiney kids who were very bored. He got all arsey and stomped away in a slamming doors huff trying to make out he never agreed blah blah blah.I had to go alone and lie to my mum why dh wasn't there.

AttilaTheMeerkat. I agree. It is my fault for allowing it. Not excusing his behaviour...that is his own doing! Just a fact I have to face...thanks to reading some of the EA threads here.

My kids don't deserve to live like this, I don't want them to think this is normal.

This relationship ...... stress, anger, frustration, fear and a stomach ulcer. I agree with living in fear/ living on the edge. Some days I feel stronger than others but on my scary days I feel tense, anxious and rush about in a panic before he arrives trying to get things done.

You sound really strong and caring, and have been so open and honest on here, really hope you can get to a happier place soon. The situation is obviously hurting you and think you're really brave to try to change things.

Do you have RL support?

You will have support on here.

A bad upbringing is not an excuse, and nor are you his therapist / punchbag (not literally, but emotionally iyswim). Your last post suggests even more that your dh may benefit from some proper help.

Think you mentioned you planned going to relate by yourself. Tbh that may be a better plan than going with him, as you will be able to talk about stuff without fearing his response.

It sounds so similar to my husband it's actually scary.

Every single weekend we have some kind of row about ds's behaviour. At the weekend, ds got ketchup on his tshirt, I moaned a bit about it, but he went mad, turned into a huge row. Apparently when he looked after him he took his tshirt off for all meals and I should do that. One night, he's looked after him. One fucking night. He's nearly 4.

Similarly he is stressed, overworked, tired and grumpy. He also has no idea how children are.

I don't know the answer, I have asked him to leave 3 times, but he is in some sort of denial. I think I am at rock bottom now. Really down about it, but i have to pick myself up and turn this around.
I know I can't turn him around, so its all over.

I am only just coming to terms with the fact that he is abusive. At it us abuse.
I have tried and tried to help him, but I can't and I am so unhappy that I don't want to anymore.

Oh and dh is having counselling, supposedly for anger management. But I think it's just making him feel even more hard done by.
I think counselling is dangerous for abusive men

Totally agree bananapirate.. I don't think there's anything you can do with someone who has a properly abusive personality, they're just wired that way. Any councelling/anger management just makes them either more justified with their feelings or better at it :(.

Hope you find a way out soon x