to tell DH to stop acting like a petulant stroppy toddler

[BringOnTheSunshine]

and to get a grip!

I have also posted this in behaviour.

Background bit: DS 4 1/2, DD 2 1/2. I work 12.5 hours at the weekend and DH works M-F 12 hour shifts.

I am currently at loggerheads with DH about his, in my opinion, unreasonable expectations about the behaviour of our children.

He has been on holiday this week (he did DIY all week) and I have been taking the kids out every day so he gets peace to work. Wed night he is tired and getting grumpy with us all...fair enough, he is tired! He stops talking except to give one word answers. Thursday evening at dinner DD falls off the dining chair after numerous tellings to sit still. DH blows up and starts shouting at me for not watching her.... he was standing behind her chair and I was sitting two chairs away still attempting to eat my own dinner. We have words in the other room about him shouting at me and he goes back to one word answers.

We decided to spend yesterday out of the house together so he gets at least one day of rest. It starts badly as I put the wrong bin out...first time in 12 years, and he starts ranting about me spending all my time sitting about reading books or on the computer rather than doing what I am "suppose to do". We spent the entire 1 1/2 hour journey there barely speaking. We went to a local attraction, got lunch in a restaurant and were suppose to take the kids on a boat ride at the lake but DH stormed to the car in a toddler huff and we ended up going home.... again he wasn't speaking to any of us.

I dropped him at home and took the kids out and didn't come home till 7pm. He had slept on the chair the whole time. He got up to eat his dinner then went back to the couch. He didn't speak or interract with any of us until the kids were in bed then he told me they were "doing his head in"

This evening after another similar day of ignoring the kids and giving me single word answers I decided I was beyond pissed off and asked him what his problem is.

The list of complaints include our children being too loud. too boisterous, too whiney and they behaved "like animals" at the restaurant.

They were not shouting or screaming, but DS has a habit of talking loudly when excited. He needs frequent reminders to lower his volume but he was not disturbing other diners. At one point both children put their heads down on the seat and were told to sit up, which they did. DD dropped her fork twice. The first time when we arrived and she started playing with them as I was taking off jackets etc and the second when she was eating and it fell. Both ate the food that was served. They were not throwing food, climbing over us to get out the booth. Running around the chairs, screeching, swearing or hitting people. I actually thought they behaved reasonable well.

The problem we both agree on is the moaning, huffing and generally irritating behaviour that drives us both bonkers. They whined about one wanted to see one thing, another something else. DS went huffy because DD sat beside me and he wanted to...But I have also pointed out that this is NORMAL.

This evening he told me that I am obviously not discipling them enough as they have to be told 100 + times not to jump on the couch, to sit still at the table, to speak quietly and not shout.

I say ... they are 2 and 4 get a bloody grip.

so AIBU or is DH right?

Thanks for all your replies, I really appreciate you taking time to offer advice, support and time to a total stranger.

Dozer, I have my mum and cousin and a close friend who would give me support but like ever person in this situation I feel like to much of an idiot to speak to them openly about everything.

I am fighting with myself just now. My default detting is it is over, let it slide, don't rock the boat. But my rational side is saying a) it is scary that I have those words in my head in the first place b) For the first time I was nervous leaving the dc with dh to go to work which is so sad and unhealthy.

My worry is that (predictable) he won't agree to work with me/us. He claims that family is everything but I am sitting here doubting he would go to anyone professionally for help.

I have spoken to him before, more than once, about councelling for his upbringing...Some of the things he has told me are so twisted....some of the things his mother admitted to me!!!! He just shrugs and says no point looking back, just got to get on with it.

I don't want to be his therapist, maid or his mother. I want him to be my partner, friend and everything else that comes with a healthy relationship.

bananapirate, I am so sorry you are going through this too. Your dh does sound like mine. Blowing up randomly for nothing, tuts and sighs like your an idiot. It is still hard for me to write abuse/abuser. You are trying, he isn't ...I wish for your sake and the dc that he realised what he losing but you can't help some people. It is so cruel!

babyhammock, I do worry that joint sessions at relate will just allow him a chance to rant about how crap a wife/parent I am as he doesn't listen/empathise much.....

VelveteenRabbit, I am at a loss about how to approach him to discuss parenting classes, councelling and anger management. I am also at a loss about how we could make time to go to any of these things. It is important so we would HAVE to make time, I know, I just have no idea how!

In fairness....and not defending/excusing his behaviour. (Also predictable), Over 12 years we have had many good times and there are many ways in which he is a good man. I am not going to list things. He can be good, he can be a menace. He needs to change his behaviour, attitude and learn how to parent well.

Also, to be very clear and fair. My behavior with the dc is not always the best. I have been grumpy, impatient, demanding and shouty. Partly because I am trying to get them organised because I can feel dh growing impatient etc and partly because they are there and I am blowing off what I get onto them. Mostly because I have allowed myself to do it. Dh can't take all the blame for dc shouting and aggression as they also see and feel it from me.

I decided...I have thought about it off and on over the last few months...that regardless of dh, I need to get help with my parenting as well as our relationship.

BOTS Having read your last posts, I don't honestly think you have a major problem with your parenting - your problem is with your dh. Your behaviour with your dcs is directly down to your wanting to stop your dh from 'blowing up' at them, and if he was removed from the equation, then you wouldn't be doing it. Fear of his reaction is directly causing you to behave the way you are IMO.

He's spent the last 12 years slowly changing your behaviour so that you now walk on eggshells around him, and it is this that should change, for the sake of your children and you.

He obviously needs to see a therapist of some kind, as blatently ignoring his childhood etc just isn't working.

My dh refused to go to relate initially, but it helped me enormously talking over things with a completely unbiased unknown (iyswim).

Again - hugs and

I will have a look on amazon tonight. Sorry, I wasn't ignoring your suggestion, just being busy thinking/overthinking everything. my head is going in circles. I feel guilty for even typing this stuff and keep deleting my history so he doesn't come accross it. I am being daft, maybe reading it would give him a better insight into me....

I'm going over your posts again, and I reckon I am about 6 months further down the line than you.
I know exactly how you feel, I feel like I have spent the last 6 months going round in circles, trying to make sense of it all, and it really eats you up. I want my brain to switch off

Here's what I did.

Told him in no uncertain terms that he was wrong about parenting.
He had never had any experience with children, and had never opened any parenting books. I spent 99% of the time with DS, and knew how to talk to him and how he was likely to respond, and he had to respect that.
The way he was talking to him was actually having a very negative effect.

I asked him to read the books... playful parenting, pocket parent, toddler taming, raising boys, how to talk to children, etc.

I also told him he had to get counselling

I also told him he had to do something about the stress of his job.

to date, he has;

got counselling.... which just seems to be making him more of a victim, not sure it is the right counselling

Read about 2 pages of how to talk to children

Got himself another job offer, but just used it to show his employers and get himself a payrise.

He does sometimes understand how his behaviour affects DS, sometimes it's quite obvious.

He still cannot control his anger, temper. He can't even walk away. And very small insignificant things will set him off.

All of this is in his control, if he made some of these changes there might be a chance. I cannot do it for him

Sunshine, have you read any of the abuse type books, about what the abuse does to you? You seem to be completely typical, blaming yourself, putting yourself down. He is doing this to you. Maybe not intentionally, but his behaviour is doing this to you.

I haven't read any abuse books. I have noticed this feeling of resentment building over the last couple of years. I am nervous of making decisions because they are always the wrong ones. I give information about money a certain way....the way I understand and is simple for me...but he wants something else, his way. Next time it is twenty questions because I answer the way he said he wants, but apparently he wants it the other way again. It is confusing, frustrating and I am made to feel stupid.

sorry ranting again.

The point was...I have been on Mumsnet for a couple of years (ish) and found the relationships section. The more I read, the more I could relate to. I started looking up gaslighting and emotional abuse and some of it started making sense.

I remember clearly the first time I should have been firmer with my reaction him. We had been together about one year and I had booked a surprise trip for his birthday. He was working, so asked me to pack a couple of shirts etc for him. We got there and he realised I hadn't packed a jumper he liked, so he started shouting at me that I should have known to bringing it etc. He was told to pack his own stuff in future, but maybe that wasn't enough. Maybe if I had been more confident...older and wiser... I would have pointed out he was being an unreasonable asshat and told him to fuck the fuck off etc.....

I am sad that I have spent 12 years of my life giving......

We have been talking about booking a holiday abroad, first time in 5 years. Part of me is excited and part of me is filled with dread. Dh gets so impatient and grumpy hanging about and standing in line and I don't know how I will manage his behaviour while dealing with the dc????? it may not be worth it.

Oh sunshine, we have had so many holidays, fantastic places, holidays that some people would die for, and I feel so ungrateful, because it's just so exhausting.
I was actually quite thankful that I had to do an entire journey to Australia on my own with DS.

The obvious book to recommend is Lundy Bancroft, why does he do that?
And you should look at " how to stop walking on eggshells"
I've looked at aspergers, borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, or is he just angry?
Similarly he has some horrible stuff in his past that should be dealt with, but I do feel like he blames a lot on it.

Sunshine, it does sound really hard, doubt a holiday will help, may be a distraction, but can't plaster over the issues. Money might be better spent on counselling (for you).....

Bananas, given that he hasn't changed, what'll you do now?

Dozer, I'm resigned to the fact that it's not going to work.
I have asked him to leave on a number of occasions, but he insists we can work it out, it will just take time. Well his time has run out.
He is away on business for a couple of weeks, and I am away too.
I need to get some egal advice and either leave or get him to leave.
He knows it's that serious, but still can't change,
I desperately need a job, so I have a bit more control over money.am waiting to hear about 2 interviews. Fingers crossed

banana, Good luck! It must be such a hard and draining position to be in. I hope you get some good news with the jobs and are able to make plans for your future.

Yes, good luck banana.

hi all, sorry to jump in like this, but reading all your experiences i feel i can see myself and my DH in a lot of them. we have been together for 4 years now with a 2 year old DS. he's been unemployed for most of this time, and because of this i have held back from confronting him and kept going for the sake of our relationship and our son, IYKWIM.

my question is to those who have managed to confront and get your DP/DH to try to deal with their behaviour after so long of you having built up resentment - do you find yourself not loving them in the same way anymore? velveteen, after 8 months separation, do you still feel love towards your DH, do you want him to move back in if you knew he was well on the way to being a better husband/father? or can you see yourself quite easily moving on?

recently, i have reached the end of my tether, and ive let him know now how unhappy i am - im not sure he totally understands but we will see. but i find that now i have faced up to all this hidden resentment inside myself, i cant find a way back to feeling those love-y, caring feelings towards him anymore, and im scared that i won't feel that way again. he says he loves me, and i say it back to him, but im not sure i really do anymore - is it just because im hurt and angry that hes been treating me like this, or is it truly over for me?

VelveteenRabbit- thanks for sharing your experience, it sounds really positive and I hope you will both get through it. FWIW, mine has these moments of clarity, where he realises he is sooo wrong, I've had lots of tears. and then he seems to forget about it all and almost pretend it never happened.
I've left a couple of times, admittedly only for a couple of days, I have always had to come back for something. I have nowhere to go that is local though, have to go back to family which is 4 hours away.
I think the difference is that mine is really very very selfish.

questions2008, I have got to the point where I have forgotten why I ever loved him.
He has crossed a line, and I don't think there is any going back.
I care about him, if I didn't, I feel I would have been much stronger. I care too much about him being on his own, or not seeing DS.

banana - thats a big reason, the biggest maybe, why im still here - i care too much about how HE we will cope if i were to leave him and not seeing his son, as he would probably move back to his family in a different country. im not yet strong enough to do that, so im waiting, hoping that maybe he will change and maybe i will get those feelings back for him.

Hi, sorry for taking so long to reply. I have been caught up with DS first couple of days at school.

questions2008. I am so sad about your situation. It must be terrible dealing with your own feelings and DC not to mention the possible guilt of Dh moving abroad and losing contact. All the ppers have said the most important factor if dh wanting to change. Is he showing any signs of change? How long will you wait????? (not sarcastic, open question to anyone....how long do you continue to live with someone when they don't change??)

I have yet to confront DH so I have no idea how it will go or how I will feel afterwards. Right now I can manage simple conversation but am struggling to tolerate this "everything is normal, i'm a good guy" situation The dark part of me wishes he had smacked me or cheated so I could say ...aha THAT! there is the reason... (No I don't wish that on anyone and hope you can understand the feeling behind it).

I suspect when I tell him the truth he will shrug it off, then blame me, then start a bitchy tirade about his 60 hr week and how I think my life is so hard blah blah blah

I would imagine that finding the love again after being emotionally battered and drained will take time....and him changing.

Hi BOTS
something struck a chord when u said you were nervous making decisions and they are all the wrong ones.

I had a dh who started off being totally devoted to me and well behaved but post dc and me being a sahm he got more selfish, wanting his own way and in particular blaming me for everything from having no milk to the childrens behaviour to a wrong turning in the car. He however was always right and could never be pinned down.

He also would disengage from us and not come on day trips.. or turn round in the car half way there and say we weren't going anymore .

Several yrs down the line I became nervous about making decisions as I was always responsible,always to blame and in the wrong.
Once, we were on holiday in France and I warned him a car was coming.. he said "don't tell me how to drive " this happened a second time and I spoke up and he said "don't tell me what to do" ...the third time, I hesitated, he had to brake, he turned round and said "Why the hell didn't you tell me a car was coming ?"

Anyway the point is, in the end I was trying to guess what he wanted me to do and decide as everything I said and did was wrong... but I couldn't always guess as he was v inconsistent and wouldn't be held to account....whatever happened was nothing to do with him even tho he was calling all the shots.

I felt like I lost my sense of who I actually was and could not trust my own judgement despite it being excellent previously.

Then, one of the dc had an accident and he said I was over reacting and rubbished what I was saying... I was so pathetic I couldn't seem to trust myself and not him... I needed his help to sort it out, and he made it more difficult instead of better... I have never forgiven him and never will.

Now when he speaks I know it is just complete and utter bollocks and tell him to shut up. He does.

I now know the truth, which is life is much too short to be saddled with such inadequate tossers..

Blethermouse, Thanks for your post. Totally 100% like my dh.

I am at the point where driving the car with him in it is too much hassle. I have to ask which way to go because if I don't I always choose the wrong way. "you always take the long way, no wonder your always late". Sometimes he will say "go whichever way you like, you have been driving for years, you don't need me to tell you" then we are back to the same place. "you should have turned down....that way is the shortest/quickest... thought we were going to XYZ first (he didn't say where before we started driving)

I have started telling him to butt out but it is constant and exausting.

If we have a problem with the kids, illness = hospital visit, need the kids taken to a party when I am working etc I alway ask my cousin or mum before dh. My cousins have taken days off work to help me...used holidays. He won't do it. When the kids are unwell I am up constantly. I, ( 8 weeks pg with horrendous nausea) took ds to A&E when he had an allergic reaction, I stayed up all night and went back to the hospital next day....with my mum while he lay in bed sleeping. Where was mr family man, father of the bloody year when his wife and children actually needed him???

I can't stop ranting.

Life is too short...absolutely, are you still together?? has he changed or are you just fighting back??

This morning I woke up wondering if it is just me...being wrong...maybe he isn't the problem, maybe he isn't the one causing these feelings. Thanks for keeping this thread going, It is helping me to stay sane. I know it isn't me really, my screwed up brain is still trying to stop me confronting him, working against me.

Should I write a list of incidents so I stay on track when I talk to him.....how do you keep a clear focus when he starts talking crap and shouting! I always end up saying sorry...for who knows what...and promising to change something! God I am a total idiot.

He also would disengage from us and not come on day trips.. or turn round in the car half way there and say we weren't going anymore .

Exactly. I am tense when we do go out because if the dc start whining or "being kids" he will reach boiling point and we are all back home. It isn't often we go to a cafe/restaurant as he gets wound up too easily and before I realise he has chugged his food and is snapping about paying the bill. I am usually still trying to eat mine as I have been interrupted talking/getting things/cutting up food etc. One course and out. If they play up before food then we are home without being fed.

He will say he has had enough and he is going to the car..."what are you doing?" like I have a choice. I should just say we are staying to do XYZ and leave his huffy ass in the car but I know what his reaction when would be when we got back....or he might drive off.

I just realised that he also ruins my favorite TV as he constantly moans, nit picks sneers at or critisises the programme. This results in me missing parts or in some instances give up watching as it is too much hassle...CSI for example.

I would second Lundy Bancroft "Why does he do that". It will help you recognise the patterns of what he is doing.

Note- Do not under any circumstances allow your DH to read the book. Do not show him this thread either. It is important you have your own space to sort things out in your head without your DH mucking about with your thoughts. Some abusers can get more ideas to push your buttons from these threads / books.

All experienced by me too. You are sane! He is a selfish non coper who leaves it all to you.

Some of my dh issue I have worked out is he can't handle any stress... despite thinking he can handle stress and I can't..."Don't panic !! You're such a panicker fgs !!".... In actual fact I am calm coping type of person, but recognise when action needs to be taken.

I have no family so have always done everything.. where it has caused a problem is when I couldn't literally be in two places at once such as giving birth and having a toddler for example.. like you, have relied on a couple of close friends for those times. Its like being a single parent except you have a very difficult big child to cope with who scuppers all your plans and efforts. And you haven't got a network going because that is also difficult.( Not saying singleparentdom isn't very challenging I know it is and take my hat off to them)

The turning point came when the house was empty one day and he was doing his usual scenario of how I never take ds to football and how marvellous he is.. had stopped going to football as dh left without me several times, and said I was trying to "make him late " (by finding ds football boots ) and ds was getting upset and blaming me.

I pointed out, in frustrated tears how odd it was he would want to spend his life with someone he apparently thought so little of, who he didn't have a good word to say about and who he constantly blamed for everything when in fact I had brought the whole family up, tended to them under the age of 5 yrs 24/7 allowing him to pursue his career (despite initially saying we could share these roles ), can cook, am friendly and nice and always take his view into account. How I didn't sign up for this when I got married , to tie myself to someone and be treated badly, unsupported and put down for the rest of my life, to be made to look inferior in front of the children as I didn't want to constantly argue in front of them and the rest of the time he was "asleep" or "unwell" and wouldn't talk.
I gave him 3 months to turn his behaviour around or he was out. He said "I'm not going anywhere " I said "I think you'll find that you will be going when I divorce you on grounds of unreasonable behaviour and have already seen a solicitor.
Surprisingly he was shocked, took note and promised to improve.

I for my part consider him a co parent only and if he goes back to his old ways he is out . As soon as he says something negative about me / other people I cut him short / tell him he is talking absolute rubbish, so that the children know.
Its still exhausting tho and still keen for him to move out.

Blethermouse, how do so many people end up being abusive controlling arses? It is shocking how many there are. I started readingsome of the links on the EA (3) thread and it is shocking how far these people go, and how sneaky and slowly you get dragged in/down.

I have so many incidents of dh being an abusive twat that it would take forever to write down.

I have ordered Lundy and Anger for dummies. Just have to continue online searches until they arrive.

CBA, I am deleting my trips to MN from the history so he can't read this thread. I have contacted my Cousin to talk about all the drama so I get RL people to help. I keep deleting my texts to her too as he sometimes goes through my phone.

Can I just rant a bit
just had this conversation
he is leaving for a business trip this evening, supposed to be picking up DS from nursery and hasn't packed yet

Him- I'm still here(work)

me-ok, well you still have plenty of time

Him-Well I don't know what to do, should I phone the airline and delay?

Me-well what time will you have to leave the house?

Him- I don't fucking know, I don't know. I need another half an hour here.
I haven't packed yet, and I've still got things to do

Me-Well what time is your flight?
him-10pm
Me-Well you won't have to leave home until 7.

It's 3pm FGS.
This guy does multi million dollar deals all day long, but shouts at his wife because he can't figure out what time he has to leave the house for his flight

N.B, he travels a lot, not like he doesn't know where the airport is

I cannot wait for him to go