WWYD.....Porn again.......

[MeelooMouloo]

Confession first, DH out at friends house, forgotten phone, curiosity got the better of me after it rang twice in quick sucession (was another of his mates, nothing dodgy), looked at his "gallery" & found LOTS of porn.

I know for some women this is no big deal, all men look at it right??? but for me it is a big deal, DH knows it's a big deal, has always known it's a big deal. Happened few months back when found stuff on the shared laptop. Explained very directly that I find it offensive, degrading and very upsetting. He made lots of excuses ("mates just send it me" etc), I argued that he could just view it & delete it rather than save it alongside photos of the DC.

I have very low self esteem & pretty serious body issues all of which he is aware and which have become worse since having DC3. Receiving counselling as a couple at the moment which is looking into some of these things but next session not till the end of the month.

How to I approach DH about this again? Feeling very upset and angry right now, not sure I can be objective, just want to tell him piss off & take his fucking big titted, size 6 women with him.

Its what happens when you look at someones phone that is private.

To be honest I see nothing wrong with porn, providing I was getting it and he was treating me right it wouldn't bother me. My ex husband had 40 videos when videos were in, and 100 mags under the bed. How he kept himself amused when I wasnt at home didn't bother me.

The thing is you need to resolve your own issues, you cannot expect your partner to do that for you.

If the porn is a definately relationship breaker for you then maybe you would be better off splitting.

The only thing I wud say before you do is that porn can be very addictive for some men. Are you certain this is new stuff or could it have been on there a while and just not deleted? Porn is so accessible now it's untrue. In my day you had to go to a shop and suffer the embarrassment of being served! Now it's 5 seconds away on an iPhone an is free!

I think instead of focussing on the porn, you should focus on getting help with your body issues. And then revaluate why you find porn to be so offensive. That is my honest opinion. Did he ever actually say he wouldn't view it any more?

He is a shit for keeping it whilst knowing how you feel about it, but yabu for snooping and putting restraints on him for what seems to be your own body hang ups.

I know exactly how you feel. I've been through this a few times with DH over the years and I have a fear of it ever happening again as I don't think our relationship would survive it.

If you have told him how you feel about porn in the past and he is still using it (behind your back as well) then he doesn't really have much respect for you and your feelings. I know loads of people will tell you to get over it there's nothing wrong with porn bla bla bla, but IMO it's the next best thing to cheating. I'll bet he wouldn't like it if he found loads of pics of naked men in different poses on your phone would he?

When he gets home I would try to talk to him again. Hopefully he will see he's been an ass.

I know looking at his phone wasn't good (have slapped my own wrist for this). It is new stuff as he did delete all the other stuff.

I have been working on my own attitude to my body, I never had a problem with it until two children in 2 years has totally wrecked any semblance of a figure I had. Am size 12 but due to HUGE belly have to wear oversized clothing to be comfortable, still wearing my maternity trousers after 7 months as so uncomfortable to have anything which puts pressure on my tummy. Sadly these just look ridiculous on the normal sized bits.

He didn't say he would never view it again & I never asked him to give up looking just not to store it. Just feel he has totally disregarded all the reasons I gave him for not liking it and sn't interested in my feelings. Other stuff in our marriage not great, hence the couples couselling.

Hey meeloo, ive been through this a few times with my partner, and also have extremely low self estime. When i was really upset about it i did some research that explained that the whole porn thing is just a fantasy for men, it is not what they expect women to look like in real life, nor what they would want in real life, just a fantasy. Its when they begin to think that porn stars arewhat real women should look like that you would have a problem, but if its just a bit of porn and your relationship is otherwise unaffected i would say just ignore it. Yes it may upset you but it really isnt that bad. These women are payed for what they do, they dont just do it for him, so there is no emotional relationship involved.

Sorry Fabbychic, did you really just suggest the OP just ends her marriage because she doesn't like him liking porn?

OP I've found porn on an old phone of my DH's in the past (also by being nosy) and am fairly sure he looks at it regularly on the internet. I don't like it but I just accept that he does it. I know he loves me to bits and is faithful to me. I think you'd be hard pushed to find a man who doesn't look at it to be honest. Please try not to let the porn girlies ruin your confidence.

Thanks for all your replies.

I don't like porn and I don't buy into the theory that all men do it and the little wives should just accept it. Fair enough if it wasn't a problem fr me, but the fact is I do have a problem with it, my husband is aware that I do and i made it crystal clear to him that he was not to store these images again (never said don't access just don't keep them). I find the particular pron he watches distasteful and completely degrading to women (multiple men ejaculating and her face, multiple anal etc.) regardless of them getting paid for it,that is not the point, would you be happy if it was your daughter? Would you argue then that "well she gets paid well for it". i don't think so.

Sorry, getting bit confrontational, just feel very strongly about this.

I checked the dates that he was downloading this crap & it was the day after our first counselling session, whilst I was at wor and he was off for the week. (He doesn't like taking time off when me & the kids are off as he can't relax properly and do the things he wants to). That was the last time I know of that he has downloaded it and we have had another counselling session since in which he was confronted about his lack of commitment to the family and in fairness to him he has been making more of an effort since then.

Going have to speak to him about it today but just don't want it to end up in a complete rant. We have communication issues at the best of times. Any ideas???

Really? The problem is OP looking at his phone?

I avoid commenting on these threads because of the porn apologists, but this one has pushed me.

No, men are not at the mercy of their genitals.
If they were, we should lock them up.

No, they don't 'need' visual stimulation in a different way to women otherwise their dicks would have exploded before porn was invented.

Men use porn because they want to - as do women. If it isn't a choice, if they're compelled to do it because of their genitals, again, we need to consider what to do with the half of society which has no control over themselves.

The OP may very need to work on her self-esteem and body issues, but that's a different topic and her choice.

You'll always get posters here saying it's all fine, they love it, their men love it, it's perfectly normal - and then you'll get those same posters saying people like me are frigid lesbians who hate men and have sexual hang ups.

My advice to your last question OP? You have been perfectly coherent in your posts - use your own words, tell him what YOU think, and then make your decision.

Stop undermining what she has said by supporting porn.

FWIW:

All men watch porn, scientists find
Scientists at the University of Montreal launched a search for men who had never looked at pornography - but couldn't find any.

www.telegraph.co.uk/relationships/6709646/All-men-watch-porn-scientists-find.html

If a major expectation of a current or prospective partner is that he has never used and will never use porn, get used to being single.

And if more women took the stance that porn is for losers and wankers, a lot more men would remain single apocalypto.

That study you've quoted has been much maligned academically incidentally, but the point it makes is that the way society has gone, it would be difficult to find men who had never seen porn. Hell, it's difficult to find a human being who hasn't seen porn in some form. But there's a massive difference between someone who has seen porn at some time in their lives - and doesn't use it now, because they've grown the fuck up, seen the damage it does to everyone involved and have made an informed and intelligent choice not to use it now or in the future.

OP please disregard any posts you get trying to minimise your feelings about this. See the secret porn use in the full context of your relationship, because despite paying lip-service to the counselling, your partner still feels he's entitled to sabotage your relationship. This needs bringing into the open and you perhaps need to clarify your own boundaries. I've no idea why you decided it was okay to look at, but not store, porn. That's a strange mixed message.

If you don't want to be with a partner who uses porn, it's okay to say that. Your reasons are perfectly sound and valid and you will meet lots of men who don't use porn and don't keep secrets from their partners. There are loads of men who respect women and don't separate the women they have relationships with - from the ones who are only fit to wank over. Don't let anybody tell you any different, because those people have an agenda to normalise their own porn habits, or their partners'.

Apocalypto: rubbish - even from an anthropological perspective, your argument is ludicrous.

All men in our society may have SEEN porn, just as all women have, but they do not all WATCH it. That assumes current viewing of action - clearly this can't be true.

Are you suggesting that all men USE porn? Again, no, not true. Religious reasons can be cited - and don't tell me all priests are perverts and all those who take religious orders are sexually frustrated because that's a lazy generalisation too.

There are men who have seen porn, they may have used it, but they choose to not do so now. Are you calling them liars? That seems more men-hating than the again, lazy arguments which claim all women who debate the negative aspects of porn are man-hating lesbians too.

You see, I actually believe that men have brains, that they can make decisions for themselves, and that they aren't driven by porn apologists telling them they're biologically wired to use porn for their entire lives.

If a major expectation or a current or prospective partner is that he has never used and will never use porn, get used to having cod-research thrown at you.

Thanks Fiited. I really hate the way all men are categorised in this way, but I can see why people need to do it. To think otherwise would make them confront their own lousy choice of partner - and their own low esteem having decided to put up with crap behaviour from their menfolk. Also, guys who tell their partners that "all men use porn" must think their female partners are especially stupid - and I guess that's no surprise, given the low respect they have for women generally.

It's so accessible these days. And nowadays it's not just the porn that's the problem, but the more 'interactiove' side. Webcams, meet for sex sites...... I'd be more worried about these

OP- I have some sympathy withyou, BUT can you accept that you have as many issues with your body shape and low self esteem as your partner has with what appears to be a bit of an addiction?

Hard as it is, you have to try to not make this addiction a reflection of what he feels about your body. He is not comparing you with these women.

You also need to address your issues of not allowing him any privacy.

Looking at porn is IMO pretty harmless unless it is impacting on a relationship in some way, such as coercing a partner to take part in sexual behaviour outside their comfort zone. Or if porn isused as substitue for sex in a commited relationship.

I think you really do need to address your own issues and get some perspective.

It's not an 'addiction,' it's a choice. It ends up with desensitisation and a wish to see more in terms of quantity and effect, but it's a choice.

Of course he's comparing her. These are idealised, unreal women - he has one who makes him talk about emotions which they do not, has self esteem and body shape 'issues' which they do not (they might - but they don't in the form he sees them).

Privacy? Why does he need privacy to look at porn? If it's harmless and shameless, why not do it everywhere, in front of everyone? In fact, those who think it's all wonderful and so necessary for men, should support this because if these poor, hormone-driven souls don't look at porn, they'll explode won't they?

Yes, the OP does need to address her own points and get some perspective; she won't do that by changing her mind and accepting that porn is just a bit of fun for oh-so-liberated gals who don't want to put a dampener on their men's hobby (or is it an addiction?). Pornography is harmful. It harms individuals. It harms relationships. It harms children. It harms women. It harms men. Many women will disagree with this for their own reasons - that's another issue.

The first sentence in the last para doesn't read properly - I mean she needs to get perspective on the fact that she is with a man who knows her views on this and has continued to ignore her. She has children with a man who thinks porn is fine. These are what she needs perspective on - I don't mean that she needs to dismiss her own concerns as so many people are telling her to.

I am 100% certain that my DH has not watched or used porn in the 23 years of our marriage. My DSs certainly have seen some online and I talk to them often about how I feel about it (they are 19 and 21). I think they have to make their own choices, but they are very, very clear about our views.

Fitted you talk in absolutes.

Can I ask why?

Do you have a PhD or something in use of porn? I'm not being sarcastic- I'm serious!

You write as if you are an authority on it.

For example, at what point does an addiction become a choice?

Would you apply the same theory to smoking , alcohol or drugs?

You make huge assumptions in your post- and I wonder where they come from?

For example, you suggest that women who are more relaxed about porn feel that it is necessary for men. I am pretty relaxed about it but don't feel it's necessary or that men would explode without it.

You also assume that the OP's DH is comapring his wife with porn stars. Unless you have had the conversation with him how the heck do you know?

I doubt very much that he is thinking "Oh look at her breasts they are so like/unlike/bigger/smaller. whatever...than my wife's."

As for privacy- don't twist things. I meant the privacy to have a mobile etc andnot have it looked at surreptitiously by someone else. Not privacy to watch porm.

Amelia - if you are indeed being serious in your question then, yes, I'm busted re the research/academic background.

Your other points - I will address them later. I have watched many of these threads and always admired the women who take on the apologists. It's very interesting to see it from this perspective of being more involved - but maybe I shouldn't have done so on a Sunday, too many other things to do, but will come back to this later.

busted= not qualified? sorry don't get what you mean.

I don't get also whatever you mean by this perspective and more involved.

Whatever...............

If my partner stored porn after a conversation in which I had specifically told him that I didn't it want it saved/stored etc then I would be livid for 2 reasons. Firstly refusing to accept how upset/bothered I was by him storing porn images and secondly by agreeing to my face one thing and doing something else behind my back.

The fact this happened after counselling had started and he hadn't taken the opportunity to delete it in the weeks that followed would probably tip me over the edge with my anger/frustration.

Amelia - I do have a research/academic background, so you picked up on that accurately. I have a lot of research experience and data in this area (and related ones) - and not in the current preferred MN use of data (as in 'the plural of anecdote . . . .).

'Perspective of being more involved' refers to the fact that I am engaged in this thread actively rather than viewing it without commenting.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Whatever .................'

RandomMess is, quite rightly, bringing this thread back to they key point.