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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 3

1001 replies

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 24/07/2011 09:09

New thread - will copy our library of links in the following posts

OP posts:
cathkidstonbag · 28/08/2011 07:00

Crush in head as distraction = good thing. Crush becoming RL thing as mega-distraction = bad thing. And the trouble is it is so easy to slide into it becoming more because any attention thats a little bit nice becomes so tempting and then your head can't make sense of anything anymore.
Btdt, keep a lid on the crush if you can.
And I do the whole not going to bed so don't have to be woken up thing!!! Hope you did finally get some sleep.

And just to update - DH now has "flu" although to be fair (which I always am) I do feel bit sore throat/temperature/headache so it's possible he has something. Tried talking last night to him. Really dont know why I bother. Not sure where the man is I married and thought I knew. Spent hours last night wondering was he always like this? Did I enable him to become like this?

MadameOvary · 28/08/2011 10:26

Short answer, no you didn't! It's not your fault he lied about who he was. You responded to the man you thought he was, so no wonder you're confused.
Your DH has man-flu by the sound of it. And your symptoms could easily be stress-related. Remember the physical toll that emotional abuse can take.
Dont give him any ground. If he is ill, he bloody deserves it. Think of yourself, esp if you are not feeling well. x

HerHissyness · 28/08/2011 10:49

hear hear MO! Tell him to get over it.

Anniegetyourgun · 28/08/2011 10:51

"Crush in head as distraction = good thing. Crush becoming RL thing as mega-distraction = bad thing. And the trouble is it is so easy to slide into it becoming more because any attention thats a little bit nice becomes so tempting and then your head can't make sense of anything anymore."

Bellatrix, that is exactly what happened with my sort-of online affair. Somebody showing me positive attention, telling me I was nice, fun to be with etc, was all it took. My head was in a terrible place and I actually started to believe the fantasy. Although it helped to give me the oomph to start leaving, I had to then get over the pain of the relationship that never was - the newly fledged hopes of rescue by white knight - before I could concentrate on the practicalities of properly ending the marriage by myself. It was not only a distraction but an extra source of guilt which I could well have done without. On the other hand, the whole "affair" thing was the catalyst for leaving so I can't regret it. Except that I do. All I can say is, thank God the "OM" showed his true colours as a dick before we actually met, because then I'd have something to really regret.

helpmeMN · 28/08/2011 11:06

yes, I wonder if that's why I always 'pick' people with other hurdles (taken etc.) - as a kind of natural check to actually taking anything further. And I've done it enough times now to know I'm not going to DO anything, I'm just really going to enjoy THINKING about it. Plus current one is in such an obvious crush position - I would probably fancy the person in his role if it were an ugly old woman because he's a pivotal part of me finally doing what I've always wanted to do (write, he's my tutor). He's married with kids and has given me no encouragement whatsoever, also another good check as the minute he did he would become a cheating arsehole and therefore no longer attractive. Clever, huh?

Bella - NO! but this is the madness. I am in exactly the same boat and I find looking at it in a kind of statistical way helps i.e. what is the more likely explanation for all this. Are you deliberately/subconsciously sabotaging your own relationship? Or is he trying to control you because he knows there's a chance he can? The DVD example is a classic 'all about me' - just like when DH read my diary in which I'd been really let down by his lack of support with new baby and I ended up having to comfort him crying down the phone (I was away) - I still think about that as a 'WTF? how did THAT become about me feeling guilty and me comforting you?' moment.

Does anyone else find that (this may be really warped, so excuse me) with the Hs who are 'really good with the kids', it tends to have a kind of showing-off quality to it? I try and analyse this one, but it's really slippery. I just think if I'm proud of how I'm being/what I'm doing with the kids, that's enough, that's an end in itself; but it seems (and this could totally be a perception thing) that he does stuff in order to tell people/show off/put pictures of his creations on FB etc. i.e. he does it so HE can be a 'good dad'. I don't even know if there's a difference there, or if I'm being at all fair. Maybe it's all the same to the kids and it's just that I'm not a natural boaster and he is.

cathkidstonbag · 28/08/2011 11:11

I think I managed to hold it together yesterday only to be close to falling apart today. Fucker just kicked my puppy. Not a proper kick more a shove but WTF??? It was growling at him because I was trying to get out of house and it didn't want to stay home with DH I think. He did this big speech this am about how wrong his behaviour was, he should have been kinder etc. And the words were all good but there was nothing there emotionally. And it was all said from the other side of the room. And I was thinking maybe it is me, maybe I'm the one in the wrong. Then took a sip from the coffee he'd made me and realised that once again he'd "forgotten" the sugar. Because I've only had sugar in coffee for 20 years! And I realised it's not me!!!

Annie - yep that's it exactly. Mine was deeper than that and tbh I'm still trying to dig myself out from that as well. I know why I did it, but it doesn't stop the pain and guilt and confusion. I think it's probably quite common in this kind of thing. And yes mine too was the wake up call I needed to get.

cathkidstonbag · 28/08/2011 11:16

helpme - no he wouldn't become a "cheating arsehole". Your mind wouldn't see it like that believe me ;)

And my DH does the good dad stuff. It's like "oh if mummy goes out we'll do painting because she never lets you do painting" or I'll take you to the park/zoo whatever. It's the big stuff not the little bits. But that's not always what kids want. I do the listening to which friend won't play with them at school, or making their favourite tea or just sitting with them cuddled up watching tv. Those things don't win any prizes or give me something to boast about - but that's what kids need.

helpmeMN · 28/08/2011 11:19

Well, really interestingly when I was talking to my expert yesterday she seemed almost in favour of it - I was talking about how affected I was by a man (I want to say boy but he's 33...) told my friend he liked me after spending four days seeing me talking so frankly about everything, looking fat and hideous and with no makeup - I am so pathetically grateful! (and I am emailing him but it's all above board) And it's an effort to remind myself that that's all about ME, not him. Anyway, she kind of prompted me and said it's often what women need to do, to a) rebuild their battered self-esteem enough to get them out and b) to give themselves a reason. I think I'm currently telling people iRL for the same reason (although still fcking dangerous territory) - to FORCE myself into doing something about it and not boring everyone with the same sob story year after year after year. Because that way I'll just frustrate people and decimate my own support network, no need for him to do that with his constant undermining of my friends.

helpmeMN · 28/08/2011 11:23

sorry, got distracted on my own tip there (who? me? Wink) and really meant to say, yes, you're right Bella. It is pretty common and it's easy to understand why. Try not to blame yourself. All of us completely understand your provocation. It was a real penny drop moment when I realised I've only ever crushed on people who have shown an interest in me (current one only because he is paid to!) - THAT'S what this is doing to me, and tbh it is basically a consequence of how I am treated. When we were first together I never even looked at another man (waste, I was 23 and pert then!).

helpmeMN · 28/08/2011 11:28

other things my expert/friend said were it takes on average 7 times to go (but personally I think we are helping each other's understanding so much it will take us all much less than this); reiterated that the danger is highest at moment of loss for them; he will try every trick in the book to get me back (although I think Narcs often just give up and move on, from what I have read); expect him to use everything you've ever told him against you; he may use the kids as pawns. Fucking depressing but we do need to be informed. Will post other things as I remember, was an emotionally exhausting afternoon.

I was thinking about my doubts after our phonecall (nice) last night and the emails he is sending me with pics of kids (showing off 'their' craft this am!) and remembering when I worked at a Refuge aged 18 how hard it was to understand seeing women crying and screaming about their abuse and then sneaking out to meet their exHs outside (happened not often but more than once). Of COURSE we are dependent on them to a degree, emotionally and otherwise. That is the whole game. It shouldn't confuse me that sometimes it is a comfort to talk to him. Should it?

helpmeMN · 28/08/2011 11:31

'he wouldn't become a cheating arsehole'. Oh. Bugger. Kind of.

Luckily I also have the check of my awful skin. Does anyone else get stress acne? I am so pissed off about it. Since the minute my dad died - bang. I'm a greasy teenager. With wrinkles and a saggy arse.

helpmeMN · 28/08/2011 11:33

and love your second paragraph, Bella. Can't print it out but will etch it into my memory instead.

MadameOvary · 28/08/2011 11:42

It is confusing because the familiarity is comforting, but you know his abusive behaviour is wrong. It's fine to feel that way, just as long as you dont allow the need for familiarity to outweigh your need to be be free of the abuse. Recognise that it is happening and try to find the familiarity in other areas ie friends and family. This will be doubly helpful if said friends and family can reinforce the idea of healthy relationships.

cathkidstonbag · 28/08/2011 11:53

Helpme - stress acne? I got blinking excema in Feb, first time ever. On my face. Looks awful and flares up everytime I'm stressed which is like ummmmm all the time. And a stomach ulcer, so I can't eat. And look anorexic. It's not a good look!

helpmeMN · 28/08/2011 11:59

yes mine is kind of tiny little spots that then turn into eczema. Rank. And weird patches of red. I think it's probably rosacea. I have mouth ulcers and IBS too. Perhaps these are the real reasons my fantasies haven't progressed to actual physical actual sex.

Thanks MadameO. I feel like I've almost got my head sorted but there's about 5% of me that turns round and goes 'what the fuck are you talking about? Of COURSE you're not going to turn everyone's life around because you feel a bit trapped/mad/depressed! That would be CRAZY!'. And I know that's him talking. It's 5% now, I guess - it was 95%. So I'm nearly there. Thanks for being my collective doubt exorcist, girls!

Anniegetyourgun · 28/08/2011 12:27

Spooky. I got psoriasis. There's only a little bit left now.

HerHissyness · 28/08/2011 12:52

He chose a film to hurt you, and didn't (a) turn it off or (b) apologise.
He passively aggressively parents and runs you down in a snidey and nasty way, undermining the majority of care that you give.
You have an ulcer and now eczema...
He's kicked a puppy (WTF?!)

Bella, please, when are you going to sort this out?

Stop trying to cope with it, he's deliberately doing stuff to upset and damage you, and it's now to the level where he wants to show you how unimportant you are so he can't be bothered to remember if you take sugar or not.

I will bet you that if you gave up sugar, and said so, he'd add it. Just to ruin your enjoyment of it.

Anniegetyourgun · 28/08/2011 13:25

See, that sounds like such a petty issue, someone used to normal relationships would go "wtf, he didn't put sugar in your coffee, so bloody what? Go and put some in yourself, what is your problem!" And of course, it could have been a genuine mistake... but when it's part of a pattern, not of forgetting, but an ongoing scenario where somehow what you want is the one thing you don't get, then you know, because you've lived it for x years and it so obviously isn't absent-mindedness. Once you've opened your eyes to the fact that it's deliberate, you see all sorts of things that previously you may have let pass. All that aggression he isn't showing at the moment (because he knows you won't put up with it any more) has to go somewhere. Mostly it's gone underground, to passive aggression, like "forgetting" little things that would make your life easier/more pleasant. But every now and then it surfaces in overt aggression. Poor puppy. Or poor Venus fly trap. Or worse, sometimes poor DCs.

Actually the best thing you could do in the situation is pretend you thought it was an innocent oversight, and either say coolly "oh could you please put some sugar into this" or, if convenient, go and add some yourself. "Oh it's very nice dear, only I usually take sugar." It will drive him crazy because it isn't driving you crazy! It's pathetic that we have to play these little mind games, but there is a sort of grim satisfaction in it. Temporary measure only, though, whilst planning The Great Escape. A normal person can't go on living like this and keep their sanity.

HerHissyness · 28/08/2011 13:37

I think I'd mention Alzeimers.... early onset dementia to him... after all he's no spring chicken....

nasty, nasty little fucker

HerHissyness · 28/08/2011 13:44

It's the smallest things that are the most maddening. the stuff that is done deliberately to piss you off, but so insignificant that if you DO say anything about it, you look a total ffing idiot for having any kind of a problem.

It is the absolute pinnacle of passive aggression IMHO. To me it demonstrates the infinite level to which they will stoop. It screams of hatred, contempt, and a resentment of fathomless depths.

If they will go to this level of detail to hurt us, imagine what they will do when they get a HUGE opportunity to REALLY stick it to us!

ThereGoesTheFear · 28/08/2011 16:40

The tea and movie issues might seem trivial. But the seemingly trivial things speak volumes about how disordered the day-to-day relationship has become. The final straw for me, and the one I keep going back to, was a cup of tea. All the physical, sexual and a lot of the more extreme emotional abuse seem unreal, and hard to process. But the cup of tea issue shows what a nasty controlling bastard he was. (He would refuse to make me one because "I wouldn't drink it properly".)

I developed eczema here. And look anorexic too. I tell you the next time I see a woman who looks a bit ropey I'm going to be extra kind to her, and I'll give her partner a dirty look, just in case Wink.

PS Garlic I meant to thank you for the hypo tips. I spoke to my therapist who said that I need to be more on alert, not less, when I'm around H, so she doesn't recommend it. (He is especially disturbed these days. Sad)

MadameOvary · 28/08/2011 17:07

Oh my poor loves.
[anger] at those useless wankers and [hugs] to you.
Just had a lovely day at a children's screening of "Up" with my friend from my DV support group. Our DD's are similar in age and were amazingly well-behaved.
Just goes to show that good can come of what these arseholes try to do to us. We can move on, get back control, get back stability, and forge new connections as well. While they just stay in the same old depressing pattern.

helpmeMN · 28/08/2011 18:46

If anyone needs cheering up, can I suggest you read the Peter Andre thread? Am roffling.

re my friend/advisor - she just rang and said 'I was thinking you should have invited that guy up to the cottage' - WTF??? I must say it has slightly undermined my confidence in her advice Hmm (she is talking about the one wot likes me not the one I am crazy obsessed with)

cathkidstonbag · 29/08/2011 00:33

Helpme - I really think it won't help you at all to get involved with someone else even as a quick fling. It will make you devalue yourself more. I totally get where your head is. I had a man ask me out a few weeks ago. I'd met him at a party and he told a mutual friend how much he liked me. How gorgeous I was and funny and cute. She told him how I was very unhappily married and apparently he's very interested. And I was tempted. Just to have someone think those things about me. Just to maybe be with someone who doesn't tell me being with me is like "shagging a skeleton" (I still feel like crying whenever I remember that phrase DH used). But I know I'd feel worse about myself afterwards. That it wouldn't be worth the guilt or hurt. And it would muddy the waters even more! I need to keep a clear head to get out of all this, not be distracted by good looking men who think I'm cute!!!

cathkidstonbag · 29/08/2011 00:38

And it is so much the little things. Another one that he does is to add extra spices to food even tho anything like that males my ulcer flare up. And he doesn't "forget" - it's a control thing.
Had the same old story tonight. He can't get to sleep unless I'm lying down next to him. I'm never allowed to stay downstairs/finish a book chapter etc. If he's tired I must facilitate that by also being tired. For so long I thought this was normal. I fought against it last week, he shouted at me for hours over that one. About my selfishness in not helping him to sleep. Is that all I ? A human security blanket???
How the heck will he cope alone? For years he hasmade out I am the weak one. Yet everyday I realise I'm not.

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