Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 3

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

New thread - will copy our library of links in the following posts

Well done puppy!

Also a welcome and hugs to happydoll. Sorry you're here, but it's a great place to be. I'm reading not really posting atm. haven't got it in me, but I'll be around live soon I hope

Hi all ! Glad I found you! Early night for me tonight but welcome to the newbies and glad you have found us .
Misspixietrix hope you are ok. You sound stressed out!

Hissy just looking for scandal, sorry. My life is very dull sometimes. I admire your completely disinterested approach. Many of us, despite what we say, would fall for that one and get right stuck in!

Annie I'm still waiting... yes I am wise to all this. He's been behaving the same way for so long, and so have I. The way I see it we both have a lot to learn. I very much doubt that he wants to. And this is where I need resolve. We're going through a lot of changes at the moment, work, schools, family etc, and I'm getting reeled into making plans.

How do you plan for a future without someone when you're still with them? You can't put everything on hold can you? Life's so fucking complicated isn't it. I wish I could just put 25 years behind me and move on to my future but today we were talking pensions ffs. I have to add that it's me bringing up these subjects as much as it is him. We do depend on each other/work as a team in that respect and I'm starting to feel like a fraud. Tired rambling now.

Hi guys. Not sure how this thread works but wondered if I could pose a quick question - the guy is my ex but am expecting his child any day now...
I was wondering what your opinion is as to whether by not telling his work that I am pregnant, he is lying by omission? He just left one job and started another and deliberately didn't tell them he is expecting, despite there being a chance he will be sent abroad for training whilst I am giving birth - which he says he wants to attend.

I just wanted to know if I am being silly seeing this as a lie when he has said he honestly doesn't see the problem?

Hope that's not too much of a ramble! Thanks for any responses in advance :)

Morning all.
Thank you so much for all the support already. After refusing to talk to me and demanding my family all change their plans he then decided that he did want to spend the day with us all after all.

We had previously decided, together, that because DSD was coming for the day (he hadn't told me) and my mum had bought tickets for a music concert (which had been planned for months but he claimed he knew nothing about) that I ought to ask our close friend to come in his place as we didn't have a ticket for DSD (because he hadn't mentioned her coming).

So, when Mum and Dad arrived at the set time they were allowed to, Mum pointed out that DSD could come as we could buy a ticket on the door. He decides he is going to come (still refusing to talk to me). I ask him to call our friend.

-No.

-Why not?
-I didn't invite him, you did, you ring him.

--What? I made the phone call, but we agreed together and now you are changing the plans, you should ring him and un-invite him.
-No.
-But what will happen when he shows up at the concert?
-He won't have a ticket. It's my ticket.
-That my Mum bought. Come on, he's your friend too, this is childish.
-That's right, call me names in front of your mum.

So of course I rang him, it was fine, but I am just so tired of always being in this position where I look disorganised and stupid. I am anything but.

I have a question...do any of you ever wander if you're right about this? The conversation above is so typical. Mum thinks I have to sleep in the bed I have made and won't support me at all. I swing badly between "I deserve more" and "better the devil you know".

So confused and tired.

Morning HappyDoll

OK, first off you can ignore your Mum's or anyone else's opinion, even the ones on this thread: only you get to decide what you do with the bed you've made.

Regarding your question: yes, I spent a while wondering if, maybe, "better the devil you know...". I'm sure many of the posters here are wondering the same. Of course doubts are normal. Of course you want to consider all options. Of course your first thoughts will be about fixing what you do have before deciding to go for something unknown -- that's perfectly rational.

Just follow the rational thought through to its logical end: what benchmarks can you use to determine if what needs fixing is in fact being fixed? What are your personal limits of what you will tolerate? What is the point at which you can say "no more!" in the knowledge that you are being true to yourself and your values?

By all means try to work things out; it would be unreasonable not to. But decide at which point it has become clear to you that things can't work out. Only you know what that point is for you.

And on your last point: yes, you deserve to be happy. Everyone does. If you're not happy, there's a problem. How can the problem be fixed? If it involves another person needing to change their beliefs and behaviours, you're in for a tricky time, as that other person needs to want to change. The only person you can change is yourself.

For me, once I realised and accepted that my H was abusive, and once I had tested every possible way I could to "get him to see" and finally accepted that he wouldn't or couldn't, I realised that the only change I had any power over was the decision to leave (or stay and be forever unhappy). It was scary, and has thrown me emotionally more than I thought possible, but six months after leaving him I can honestly say that I am finally beginning to feel like a whole, worthwhile person, which I hadn't felt in years.

You're the only one who can work our what action you want to take, and the time it will take you.

Again, do read some of the books and links recommended at the start of this thread: they'll help you get a clearer view of your situation from which you can start basing your decisions on.

Very well said, Puppy.

As I'm sure I've said before, the bed analogy doesn't hold up at all. If you make your bed and it turns out to have a big lump in the middle, you can choose to remake the bed a different way, or even sleep on the floor. When the weather turns cold you grab an extra blanket, when the sheet gets grubby you wash it. You absolutely do not and should not put up with a grotty bed. If only human relationships were that simple, in fact, there'd be no question but that you would thoroughly remake or even chuck it out. It's because human beings are not pieces of furniture that you often find yourself stuck in an awful position that it's very difficult to leave. You can't take a man back to the shop because he's faulty.

Anyway, you didn't make that bed the way it is. You keep trying to make it smooth, he keeps rumpling it up, that's why it's uncomfortable. In sickness and in health, by all means, but in cruelty and in wickedness? Why?

Your mum is wrong, wrong, wrong when she says that because you made a mistake however many years ago - suckered in by someone who wasn't as nice as he pretended to be - you have to pay for that for the rest of your life. We'd all still be in caves with a lifespan of 30 years tops if human beings never strove to better their conditions.

Orbinator: welcome!

This guy is your Ex right? going to stay that way? By the sounds of it, he had better!

OK then disengage. HIS decisions are his alone. HE pays the consequences of those decisions. HIM!

He doesn't tell his work that he is imminently going to be a dad, and they send him abroad, then it speaks MASSIVE VOLUMES about him doesn't it? Give em enough rope and all that.

Imagine what people will think of HIM when they find out that he chose not to tell his work about the baby and missed the birth??? It'll reflect 100% on him and never, ever in a million years on you. Things like this are so serious as to permanently scar what people think of him, so there he is in a new job and everyone will KNOW he's a shit. Forever.

Don't panic about it, just get someone else as your birth buddy. I mean it. Don't let him have you on tenterhooks wondering and fretting if he'll be about for the birth. TBH, you don't need to additional pressure of a dickhead man-child faffing about not committing to probably the most important day of your life to date.

Get a Doula, or a really close relative to be with you and then relax. Be totally ambivalent toward him. Tell him "seeing as I didn't know if I could rely on you or not, I made alternative plans, if you are able to make it, great, if not, no biggie" you weasly little shite

These men dangle disaster over our heads, to get us to panic and cling on to them, pander to them and do what they want us to do. Our challenge is take a step back, know that nothing is actually a disaster, only if we let it. We need to see it for what it is, purely designed and targeted to cause maximum distress and chaos in our lives. Don't let them do this!

Look at the dangling disaster, and then get a sodding great big mental baseball bat and hit it out of the park.

Think about it, we can do it!

HOME RUN!

But I'm just no good alone...and that's where I keep coming back to :(

Hi orbinator - is this your first child? Is he worried about losing his job? Do you think that's justified? Just a few questions to keep you going. Not up to supporting anyone much but others will be on soon.

happydoll hi - sounds as though you are constantly winding each other up. I disengaged from those conversations a long time ago. What I find myself doing now is - well I would have called the friend myself, because it would have shown him up to be petty. Do you think this is a m-i-l thing? My dp would be awful to me when his mum was around. The more contact he has with his family the worse his behaviour.

So I had a fantastic night, heart pumping with anxiety about what he would be expecting. Sure it happened, I refused and he really had a very nasty rant. "something wrong with you..." etc. I just let him go on til he ranted himself into a corner. He never apologises. But this can't go on much longer.

HappyDoll I hear you love. Being alone is scary. Fear of being alone is one of the main things that keeps women like us in relationships way past their sell date.

Lord, how I kick myself about the day 6 years ago when my H packed his bags and was about to walk out after smashing up glassware (aimed at me) for the first time, and I told him to stay because I was suddenly gripped with the fear of loneliness and failure. By letting my fear of loneliness dominate me, I gave him license to continue, and to get worse.

Yes, the thought of being alone is frightening. But ask yourself: aren't you already lonely in this relationship, with a man who can't hear you?

Hi orbninator,
not telling work, friends about the baby is worrying. It shows that he is blocking it or trying to block what it means from his mind. Do get an alternative birth partner - doula, family member or friend - doulas probably come across this situation often enough. Then you don't have to fret about him being there or not. You worrying keeps him focus of your attention not the birth. Talk to your midwife too.

Happydoll mmm I had all that stuff too. Couldn't make his mind up so simple arrangements gradually became more complex. Get a calendar, write stuff down, ensure he has copy and then do. All this dithering wears you down till you can't function without putting him first, not your DCs, your parents, you. If you can find a moment, do work out some boundaries and decide what they are re arrangements. If you can tell him what they are and they you can see whether he respects them.
Best of luck

HappyDoll, love, you are dancing to everyone's tune but your own.

LET a ticket go to waste if your H blows your family out, or better, tell your Mum and dad to invite someone. That way if your H decides he WILL go to the ball after all, then HE has to buy a ticket at the sodding door.

Better yet, assume that H won't come and make your own plans. Tell him that you won't allow him to make you look an idiot in front of friends and family again.

You don't have to be accompanied by some juvenile pouting control freak.

Stop covering for him, stop trying to make him look good. HE ISN'T, and the best bit about it, it's not YOUR responsibility to make him look good.

As for your Mum, if she actually said the made your bed comment then I am mortified on your behalf.

You need to end this relationship one day, you know it, everyone knows it. Please manage your own expectations here, that your parents will be of little support. I didn't expect this to happen to me, but my parents weren't there for me either, it hurts, but if you know this ahead of time, it's easier to cope with.

We will be here for you, the ladies here helped me enormously, and there is RL help to access.

I know you are not ready yet, but you don't deserve to live like this. I do understand the Better the Devil you know thing, but believe me, being on your own is fabulous in comparison to what you are putting up with. Think about it? How could it be WORSE?

HappyDol: No good alone? who told you that? that is crazy! Did your MUM tell you that She is NOT exactly a friend to you in all this now is she?

Imagine, no stress, not worrying about what crime you have committed, what curve ball some megalomaniac is about to hurl in from lord knows where.

No covering up, no excuses, you decide to do what you want to do and nothing ruins it. No miserable tosser waiting at home to ruin your good mood when you get back! It's FABULOUS!

You need to surround yourself with friends, supporters and those that want to see you happy. Those that will sit by and watch while you suffer are not your friends and need to be penned off somewhere, far of you and left to their own miserable devices. I have no time for anyone that will not want me to be happy. None what so ever.

You need to catch up on our threads a bit! We had a chat a while back about US and how OUR needs need to be met in life. Repeat this mantra whenever you are doing things you'd not do out of choice. What's In It For Me? Be selfish, it's not a crime! it's taking care of YOU, it's putting YOUR needs first so that YOU are better able to cheerfully interact with others, with your DC etc.

Being happy means YOU are a better person in yourself, a more fulfilled person, a person more able to give and receive proper love. I found that when X left, I became a better mum as I was better able to focus on the needs of my little boy, was calmer, happier and more spontaneous as I was not so fearful.

When it comes to abusive/controlling relationships, the side of the fence that I am on IS greener! The view is better as there are no dark clouds, and the air is fresher too!

Have you read Lundy Bancroft Whey Does He Do That? if not, please read it as soon as possible.

FWIW, I am growing to really appreciate and enjoy being alone. I finally get to be myself -- something I don't think I've ever had the chance to do before (I had controlling parents before walking straight into the arms of controlling stbxh at the age of 19).

So being alone has been massively destabilising at first, because at the ripe old age of 32 I have to actually work on figuring out who I am, how to function on my own, and what my own personal boundaries are. This is something that can only be done alone or in the company of supportive, respectful people (this excludes my stbxh by definition). I also get to think and say what I want, and do the things I want, without being belittled, threatened, huffed at, or over-ruled. BIG improvement!

I understand your fear of being alone, but it is vain to wait for the fear to subside before jumping into the unknown: you can still feel fear without being held back by it. And frankly, being alone is something one needs to learn to do in order to be healthy in a relationship: if you know how to be alone, you know who you are and where you stand, and what shit not to take; you know how to love yourself so that you can love another without neediness. All important things to bring into a relationship, but that can only be learned alone first.

"No good alone"
Oh yes, been there.
That is because he has eroded your self esteem and confidence in your ability to think for yourself.

When you are not supported, and you are undermined on a daily basis, it doesn't make you stronger and more self-sufficient - it diminishes you to the point that you feel terrified of being alone, and so you continue.

Think of yourself as a structure with very wobbly supports built by a team of cowboys - living day to day with these insecure, unstable elements round you. Wouldn't you rather have something more solid?
The problem is, if you take them away you will fall. No-one likes to fall. It hurts. BUT you will then have the opportunity to rebuild them the way YOU want.

As Puppy said, it is destabilising. But so is living like this. And the end result is better than you could ever have dreamed.

MadameOvary I like your metaphor! I especially like this bit:

No-one likes to fall. It hurts. BUT you will then have the opportunity to rebuild them the way YOU want.

Hi again happydoll.

Reading back through, I would suggest before taking the big step of deciding to leave, it's early days, you try your best to disengage from him a bit. I know it's hard, but try to expect no help from him at all. Do everything yourself, don't ask him to 'go and get the kids dressed' or whatever, or even 'make me a cup of tea'. Expect nothing and slowly you will be able to a) see what it's like being alone and b) avoid arguments and rows, which will drain you.

Practical ideas like notsorted's calendar thing is great. Put everything in, do mention things to him to keep him informed, but write stuff down, send him emails if you need to. That way he can't pass excuses back to you. If he says something rude or something you don't like, ignore it, look away, smile at dcs to distract them. When he's good, react accordingly.

Reading Lundy Bancroft right now may be a bit much doom and gloom in one go. These books can make you feel that leaving is the only option and that may be hard to take. I hope I'm not undermining the other ladies advice here, but I do feel it's a bit soon and could take you on an emotional rollercoaster you may not be ready for.

hissy I think we need to get some responses from orbinator before we tell her she's in a hopeless relationship? Or do you know something I don't?

Thank you guys - yes he is definitely staying as ex. Far too many trust issues here (he walked out at 16 weeks and although he since admitted it was him freaking out and he shouldn't have done it, he spent months making me feel it was my fault or the baby's because he wouldn't admit it was HIM.). I'm pretty open minded about things and decided to keep the door open for him in the hope that a few months would have given him time to get his head around everything and grow up a bit. Nothing really changed though. He likes to say I twist everything and therefore I doubt myself, but he is so secretive it makes me unable to trust him. A recent example - 3 days before my due date he is AWOL in London. I asked him where he is staying and he simply ignores me. On the third day he stays with a girl he used to work with, one that he knows I had jealousy over because she apparently doesn't like me even though she's never met me! I'm sure he does this to wind me up and then when I object he says I'm paranoid and this is why it wouldn't work, etc. I have to keep reminding him that I don't WANT a relationship with him, but I do think I deserve to know if he is near enough or sober enough to attend the birth or whether he is out at a club or with another woman if I text him to say I am in labour...is it too much to ask? Ach, there's a long story behind it but I guess last night I just got texts that are once again re-writing history to blame me for everything. Again.

He simply will never tell work. He will be travelling a lot and doesn't work from a main office. Half of his friends don't even know! Not that I've ever been allowed to meet them, of course!

I made arrangements for alternative birth partners when he walked out - have 2 friends who are possibly more excited than me! He still says he wants to be there despite me saying I don't think it will help (not like we're going to be sharing oxytocin to make it easier, is it?!). It will take him at least 3 hours to get to me he says, 5 if he is staying with another person a bit further away.

Oh and I couldn't understand why he wouldn't tell his old work as he knew he was leaving since November, so it really wouldn't have made much of a difference, other than he could have taken paternity leave. I suspect the main reason was because he is the one they ask to take clients to strip clubs and has worked at a rep for being a bit of a lad. He used to text them saying he was out in London from my house, presumably because he could then tell them he picked up a girl when he got in on Monday. I was a complete secret after he walked out, even though he stayed over most weekends after the first 2 turbulent months.

I could kind of understand with the 2nd job as he said he thought it would affect him getting the job if they thought he wasn't free and single and able to travel. I do wonder though as it's not as if he would have been living with us anyway and the child would not affect him in that way. I guess telling your new boss that you walked out on your ex and now can't get the trust back shows failure, which would prob be more damaging to a job prospect than a child.

hissy you did know something I didn't! sorry.

orb - just disengage - you are separated - let him go and do what he wants to. Let him come to birth and wait outside. Make sure someone keeps him out there. If he turns up for the birth (outside), fine. If he's off with another women, his choice. Let him go.

Yes I know. I haven't actually thought about him for days and then got all these texts last night turning it onto me again.

So, text him when I start labour or when I start to push? My friends think he shouldn't be there as he will stress me out (he's likely to go on about a recent operation on his leg that he chose to have done, to try to get attention from me - did this at last MW apps and antenatal classes consistently, not to mention in town/taxis etc, you'd not notice I was 8/9 months pg!). Plus I don't want him staying over and if it's at 2am or something I don't know if I'll have the energy to explain this all to him again. I have to keep repeating myself with things like that or he pretends he didn't hear it or it wasn't made clear.

I suppose I should be glad he does actually sound like he wants to be there. But at the same time it feels like pressure on me to coordinate timings so that he doesn't miss it.