Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 3

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

New thread - will copy our library of links in the following posts

Bandwithering - those internal voices, yes I know what you mean. I created a seperate part of myself that had a voice I could turn to for reassurance and comfort. I had to consciously make her and am very careful that if DD falls or needs reassurance I will first repeat what she says to show her I've heard, then give her a cuddle.

Emotional resilience is one of my parenting goals - I was SO crazily sensitive as a child and well into adulthood, I could not bear DD turning out the same way.

barbie
I would love your input to my parenting woes
I fear I could ramble and rant for pages and pages though, such is my confusion. I feel like the bottom has fallen out of my parenting confidence

I'll try a little bit; and Ill try and be succinct

background to my parenting; have dd1 at 6yo and dd2 at 9 months old. Have always made my expectations of behaviour and 'rules' very clear generally, and often reiterated before a day out for example. I always have expalined the reasons for my rules and expectations and consequences (natural and imposed by me) for 'non-conformity'. I choose my battles very carefully and give warnings. BUT I dont buy into Unconditional Parenting and the like; they have to do what they are told when necessary or its time out/go home etc. I shout more than I wish I did.

DD1 is a VERY socialable girl, shes a really happy upbeat girl who likes more than anything to spend time with friends, always wants to be busy-very very high energy. Incessant chatterbox, bossy boots. First line of bad behaviour is whingeing and crying for her.

I started to question my parenting on a recent camping trip; we went with a friend and her dd who is the same age as dd1. the mum has different approach to me; spends much more time explaining and discussing, micro managing, intervening in conflicts. her dd is not so high energy and likes a bit of quiet time and likes to spend time with her mum.

the 2 dds didnt get on. mine was over excited and also over-protective of her sister, bossy and wanted to prescribe the games which where played and talked non-stop. Other child said her games were stupid and boring and wanted her to be quiet and also wanted to spend time playing with my dd2 without dd1 involved My dd1 couldnt cope with this and whinged and cried ALOT and in between this, spent alot of time and energy trying to engage the other girl. Other childs mechanism are more along the lines of shouting at my dd1 and stomping off/ sulking.

other mum seemed to want to allow her child her emotions and reactions but appeared to get increasingly annoyed at mine. I tried to discipline my dd but was loathed to do so when other child wasnt being. there were a number of incidents where i felt my dd was treated really really unfairly. I also struggled in this situation because I was constantly being distracted by the needs of dd2 who is crawling/ cruising and teething.

we came home early- i wanted to get dd1 out of the situation. she clearly didnt know how to behave. And I was so confused that I didnt know how to help her! or even how to behave myself!!

should i be curbing her personality a bit more? The constant chatting which was obviously so irritating for other child????

theres more- but this is long enough already!

sorry everyone else for diversion

Any mummy thoughts appreciated!!

and thanks barbie - bet you wish you'd never offered now!

Just had major row with dp - he brought up stuff, blamed me for his brother leaving when he stayed with us (brother has done this before, stays and then gets uppity with me and leaves. He's a mummy's boy living back with her now, total narcissist, no girlfriend at 40 (not for about 15 years). He can't handle women, just like his db).

Need to get row off chest bejeezus before I dish out parenting advice (sorry). I'm sitting here right now thinking NOT AGAIN. The row where we get to the end, we are splitting up, right, then he goes and watches the telly and I go an wash my hair. Then it's back to normal.

As usual he spent a long time telling me how bad my personality is, effectively gaslighting me really - 'if I recorded the way you are talking to me now, what would soandso say if I told them you did this, you don't get on with anyone, you need to look at yourself, you need to see a doctor, blablabla. Fact is I have lots of friends, he has none. I have friends who are concerned with me etc but I don't need to prove anything to you guys, I know you're on my side. .

I find myself trying to make our lives better, work towards our common goal as a family (whatever that is). He is doing nothing to save our relationship - he point blank refuses to read the Engel book, he point blank refuses to see the counsellor. These are my conditions. Do one or the other. He categorically won't do it, although just now he said he would read the book. Great. Last time I was here I think I mentioned a time limit. Haven't set it yet but I will make it the end of this week. Should I tell him my time limit?

I told him I can't deal with the way he treats me, he said when did I treat you like that? I said I don't know, he said, when you wouldn't have sex with me - see, you're withholding sex from me, that's controlling (thanks Beverly! - he read the first chapter). But that was about two weeks ago. I said but that nasty stuff should never happen at all. Never, I can't have stuff like that happening every two weeks and for me to then be grateful when it doesn't. He did pause for a moment.

He doesn't see that he needs to change in order to save our relationship. He tries to turn it all to me, despite me saying well I'm not perfect I know, nobody is...

Fuck him, he's an idiot. There's no way I can get this to work. He's the wrong man for me, he always was and I just didn't see it. He's great in so many respects but there is a fundamental flaw in the way he communicates with me - it is as though he won't allow himself to be on my side - there is no 'us' with him.

Blergh. I'm having an early night. I'll repond tmw tomorrow bejeezus.

Good news today, got onto my Diploma course. I was fretting about it soooo much. It's what made me feel a failure the other day, I was convinced I wouldn't get it.

Oh god. Who am I going to grow old with? I'm well over 40. But I can't reserve that space for him any more. I want to reserve it for someone who I can have a 'bouncy' conversation with. I sometimes get that, love it when it happens, but NEVER with him.

Sorry to whitter on so long. Disregard as necessary. I think I need to do some work on visualising my new future.

well done for getting on your course barbie

where you at? is this it do you think?

The row where we get to the end, we are splitting up, right, then he goes and watches the telly and I go an wash my hair. Then it's back to normal

can totally relate to that bit. Can you imagine living like that FOREVER though?!

I find the thought of living like that into old age, worse than the thought of being alone

snoopdogg, hope all is well tomorrow with SS. As the others said, tell the truth and tell it loud. Be honest with them and yourself, bear in mind what was said about being in denial. Also helps to make them see you are interacting with dcs or considering them, if they are there.

bejeezus I think to myself sometimes, if we lived in a small rented flat with possibly a vanful of stuff, we would have split years ago. The stuff we have really inhibits me on this. I think there is a territorial power game going on with us as well. I don't like him invading my space with his clutter etc, he uses it to obstruct and confuse the household (whether deliberately or not).

The first step to my new vision of my future - a home where I can always find the sellotape! A home where I understand how the directories on the computer are organised. A home where nobody sits on the sofa picking their feet (yes).

Isn't it absurd that I think it is acceptable to be in a relationship that is so full of doubt? I first doubted our relationship 3 weeks into it. 25 years later... endless doubting. I regularly fantasised leaving him, always thought I would, I should. That's really not normal.

thanks all, went to bed early last night but been up since 5. It's just me and the SW today - ds's with father.

Have already decided not to have manic cleaning session...... One of his big things was how 'his' house was presented to visitors and I'd get into a complete state trying to make it perfect - never did - always had a lengthy debrief on what wasn't quite right afterwards. Towards the end of the relationship he'd actually point out to people what I'd got wrong. Ahh feel better already at decision to present normal household chaos

Hi all, sorry haven't been on here much, been caught up in other things, going off to catch up on thread now x

Barbiegrows - I thought it was just me who fantasises leaving their DH for years! In fact on my first counsellor visit she asked what my perfect scenario would be and I said if he could meet someone else and leave me as I couldn't see any other way out. I still can't :(
snoopdogg - mine is obsessive about cleaning. For years he used to check for dust on top of doorframes when I said I'd cleaned.

bejeezus have you heard of the book 'how to talk so kids listen and listen so kids talk' in reference to your parenting question... Its really brilliant and whenever I'm in a difficult sitch with DS (2.5), I think of it..

Its not heavy going at all its got loads of cartoon strip scenarios x

My dad was fanatical about cleaning, and yes, gave my mum a regular earful because things weren't perfect and threw a huge wobbly if she had anyone to visit. (To be fair, he did a lot of the cleaning himself, but with a furious face that left us in no doubt that he was having to do it because the women in the family were not doing their job.)

XH was completely the opposite. I concluded he felt safer surrounded by dirt and clutter, like a rat in its nest. If all else failed he would have a sudden impulse to clean out the attic, so that the lounge could be full of old suitcases and bags of outgrown clothes, which he would never quite get round to packing away again. I threw some of the old clothes in a charity box once and he sulked about it for weeks. When he eventually got a job it was cleaning out flats from which tenants had been evicted, and he used to bring sacks full of the stuff home. Including a used pregnancy test kit. Which he said he thought I might find useful.

I have that book on order actually!

I have also read Caroline Webster-stratton's the incredible years and although I did get some good tips/revelations from it (about the way I compliment my children for example. I might have said "your room is tidy for a change" instead of the much better "your room is tidy! great!)

I know you're supposed to focus on positive reinforcement all the time. But although I am doing verbal praising for good behaviour, at the moment I have a jar of 5cent pieces (four euro worth) and every time she breaks one of the rules (which are all pretty reasonable, eg don't hit your brother, don't call him a weirdo etc) I take 5c out. At the end of the week we'll count what's left and I'll give her the money in bigger coins. She's got in to the habit of being awful so she loses a lot of money for naughtiness that her heart wasn't even IN.

my x was a dickhead about cleaning too. he used to think he was living in a five star hotel. I was under so much pressure to run a small five star hotel with an on site blue ribbon restaurant, and a creche with two under threes who didnt stand in the way of the running of the restaurant/5 star hotel.

All that without a car and he treated me like an incompetent employee and never appreciated a damn thing I did.

Justcallmebellatrix you can get away from him. It will cause ripples, tsunamis in fact, chaos, it will stir up all that ire in him you spend your life trying to calm. But you could/can get away from him.

There are a few posters on here who are still with their bastardbullyboycontrolfuckwitfreak partners so i'm going to do my "reasons why I stay" organagram later . Gonna talk yall down off that ledge. So to speak.

Just a thought : it struck me reading the parenting/H stuff that really it is because the Hs are at the same level as the DCs in the house, I know that's probably been pointed out earlier.
I totally sympathise with the No Us bit Barbie, women are programmed to be inclusive, think about the whole picture, keep all those balls in the air and pay attention to all their needs. My ex used to pick his toes in bed (urggh), he was like a black cloud hovering round the place threatening to rain on anyone's parade. I'd always suggest things to do and he'd say no. I once asked him when we were discussing something via email to try and write the whole thing in positive sentences because I was so fed of of "I don't want ..."
May be doing the coin in jar thing on him would help - how about 100 beans in a jar at the beginning of the week - take them out for twattish behaviour and then when he has lost a critical amount decide to treat yourself to something?

Barbie great for your course. When does it start? Does it require a big shift in what you do and how? May be that's the time to kick out all the old and move on up?

Notsorted, I wouldn't have known what penalty to attach to being screamed at for five hours non-stop. Would that be all the beans or just half of them? Cos if I took out all of the beans then the next day he could have called me a lazy fat hairy cuntish midget. So that'd be another 'all the beans' demeanour. I think there wouldn't have been a jar big enough!!

Maybe a massive catering size jar of beetroot full of dry kidney beans.

Bandwithering..you'll love that book!
Thought notsorted's idea was great.... can you imagine the fallout though :-/ and as you say, where do you get enough beans..

Ahem. I know the bean jar was a flippant idea, but I don't think it's helpful for you to even joke about rewarding yourselves for suffering bad behaviour! That's what your twats do, why help them?

Putting beans IN your jar for NOT engaging, putting up with, or otherwise suffering twattishness - now, that deserves rewards

Absolutely garlicbutter! when I'm berating myself for not having qualifications, not having a career, not owning a house, I tell myself. I'm here, I'm sane! I'm healthy, I'm content despite everything! the children are doing well. I mentally put a fistful of beans in the jar.

I feel so bad for the posters who haven't left their Narcs yet.

This is very interesting. It's american and I don't really like the term 'battered women' but read it anyway. It's about why women don't leave abusive relationships. Obviously, the #1 reason in any country is nowhere to go and no money when you get there. But I read through this and some of the obstacles in the USA wouldn't be a factor here. eg, hostels and refuges in the UK tend to be in residential areas close to a town. (the ones I've known about anyway) so women are NOT reliant on a car. The social welfare situation is better in the UK than it is in the USA as well I think.

Anyway have a read of this

"In Orange and Durham Counties there is currently one battered women's shelter with a capacity for 16 women and children."

"Why is every county in North Carolina required by law to have an animal shelter but not a battered women's shelter?"

"Why is 'Assault on a Female' (as domestic violence incidents are legally called) a misdemeanor in our state?"
(I've just checked, this is still the case in most states.)

Blimey. If you're going to suffer DV, you're even worse off suffering it in the USA than the UK.

So in response to Bandwithering's link...... Some here have left, some haven't. So what kept us/ is still keeping us there?

For me:
I felt totally trapped. It was impossible to go back to work where I was and I was already scraping by. I didn't know how I'd cope being in an even worse sitch finacially.
Drained me of all self esteem and energy. Like it could never be better and there was no way out.
The biggest one though were the repurcussions of leaving him. I knew he would make it hell for us... and he is.
So all those made believing in the 'nice' version of him seem like the only option I had.

What about you lot.. what kept you there so long or what's still keeping you there. I hope its ok to ask this. I've been lurking here for a while now and left abusive ex 3 months ago...

Well done, babyhammock :)

I felt financially trapped - which was absurd, I was earning really good money. We'd taken on a lot of debt, and he deliberately confused me over our finances. But, still, I could have dossed with a mate until I got my next bonus.
... So it wasn't that ...
I felt I had to put everything I had into making the marriage work. But I was aware it was a one-way effort.
... So it wasn't entirely that ...
He told me all our problems were my fault. But I could, just about, see he was lying.
... So it wasn't quite that ...

I didn't leave him, in the end (this is #2, I left #1 when his affair got ridiculous.) What happened was this: I got work to send me on an assertiveness course. A few months later, I started therapy. During this period, my methods of interacting with him changed. He got worse, then he left. I believe MY changes led him to feel that controlling me was becoming too difficult.

... So it must have been ...
When we married, I didn't know my rights, my boundaries, or that I deserved honesty & respect. When I found these things out, I was no longer suitable victim material.

Poor old H, eh?

I have 3 reasons why I stay. I stay even though it isn't ideal for them to be seeing a marriage like this (even though I hide as much as I can) it's also not ideal for them to go through the hell that will be caused if I leave him. He will fight dirty. I know that because he's told me that. I have no money, no job so how would I survive.
I know some of you will say it's easy and I'm making excuses ... but I really don't see a way out. The only option to take my DC from a life of relative luxury, from the schools they love and all the material things HE showers them with. I stay for them because they are worth the sacrifice. But sometimes I wonder if it's too high a price to pay???

My brother grew up to feel he's entitled to do whatever he likes, as long as he takes care of his family. This is an extension of the model my parents set.
He's embarking on his third marriage, which will also fail.

Just sayin' ...