Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 3

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

New thread - will copy our library of links in the following posts

Oh mine has the voice too! And that's obviously what he did to my friend. She was still shaken by it now and she said it must be awful to live with that. She said how earlier in the year when I had told her I might leave him that she couldn't understand why ... but she does now.
I'm cross that this will impact my DCs life now. My friend is wary about letting her kids play round here as apparently DH was very rude to them too! FFS they are children - how dare he!!!

That is unforgivable, being rude to DCs and interfering with their friendships. What would happen if her DH had a word with him? Would it go tits up/inflame things with you or is he the sort of bloke who is essentially a coward and would scare a woman with the voice, but has enough respect for men to hear their point of view?
Sorry that contradicts my earlier post, but seeing as his behaviour has affected an important friendship for the rest of the family perhaps he does need calling on it?

Barbie ,I remember that stage of my life when I was still with x, and I knew without a shadow of a doubt that it was a totally dysfunctional relationship and that he was a controlling bully. but I stayed for a long time after I realised that. I made the decision to compartmentalise my life (or at least it felt like a decision but actually it was the path of least resistance - doing nothing) . I told myself 'this is a nice house, I have nice neighbours, I have some friends nearby, the children are lovely, their school is lovely, my parents are well'. I actually thought that I could compartmentalise everything and just be grateful for the good things and bear the bad thing. But it was impossible. He poisoned everything eventually. The neighbours heard us fighting! The house was in his name anyway because he was financially abusive. The people I'd worked so hard to fool into thinking I was happy, all that effort made me feel so disconnected from them that one day I realised, almost with a jolt, what is the point of pretending?.

Anyway, think about this. IF (if only) a fairly godmother could wave a magic wand and say to you 'WAKE up, I pressed FAST FORWARD on your life. It's Aug 2012. You left your x last october and it was hard. You cried, you were stressed, but although it was overwhelming, you got through it."

Does that thought sound like something you would wish for? Tackle the fairy and wrestle the wand off her perhaps!?

Garlicbutter you sound like a lovely person. I was reading your list thinking 'oh I can sort of do that'.

Annie! he sounds awful. If he acted like that in front of a witness... the mind boggles really.

Well, thank you Bandwithering!
Your list ... ? :)

ok Garlicbutter, not sure I'll get to fifteen but I'll have a go.

1)am a fairly decent human being I think
2)have a lot of empathy, too much I sometimes think!
3)I can put other people at their ease with chit chat that is natural and not too banal
4) I am interested in the World and find a lot of subjects interesting. Mightn't be a master of any of them but a lot of stuff interests me
5) I love talking to other people. love hearing their stories and comparing experiences
6) love languages and taught myself spanish because they didn't do it at my school
7) I'm good at cooking as well, and until you put that on your list, I would never have thought to include it, but heck who doesn't like to have nice food put before them.

8) I am good at entertaining myself iyswim. I don't pace like a polar bear thinking what'll I do? cuppa tea and the crossword is heaven. Can always find something to do, reading, making jewellery (plucking up the courage to give things to friends, need to get a little better first - will definitely NOT attempt to sell jewellery though as that would make it stressful)
9) ok, I'm starting to struggle here. em.

10) I am witty I think, and I can see the humour in almost anything if I'm feeling cheerful.

11) despite everything that's happened, I'm still an optimist. I still think that things are all getting better & easier
12) hmmmmm. would it count to say I have a goal now and I'm working towards it.

ok. It's weird to do that. ANd I'm so wary of making myself seem wonderful that I'm also tempted to say 'but on the flipside, i'm a bit caught in my comfort zone now, a bit too cautious, not a high flier career wise and never will be, I lose my temper with my kids and sometimes feel they are such hard work!

RabbitPie not sure what the background is with you and your x but it sounds awkward alright.

Sorry to hear that his dad who you liked is not well.

I'd suggest that the next time he tells you what he doesn't like just shrug. As if to say 'right, duly noted buddy'. and then go back to what you were doing.

it seems like 2 and a half years on he still firmly believes that he can control the way things are between you. Awkward? Hostile? Fake Civility? It's whatever he chooses that day.

So I'd pick one approach and stick with it. A half nod (no smile) just the acknowledgment that you know each other. You don't have to inject fake warmth in to the nod. NOR do you have to bother trying to convey any distance or strength in your nod! just walk past him with a quick half nod.

Then if he approaches you to say that he doesn't like this half nod business and he would like a kiss on both cheeks on Tuesday and a kick in the shins on wednesday, you can just say 'right'. Then carry on as you always do.

I wouldn't allow him to be coming to you with updates on his father either.

Can I have a hand hold and some advice please.

Social Worker coming tomorrow re completing section 20 reports on kids as part of contact/residence order stuff. She's already done her visits with him and the kids with him and I feel completely on the back foot. I know he will have done a number on her and am bricking it to be honest. How do I handle this?

Heh, bandwithering, you sound fantastic! I'd like to be your friend :)

Know exactly what you mean about the "But .."s. I nearly did it, too. All those historical voices, going "Who do you think YOU are, you're nothing special, nobody would give you the time of day, you never get right, you're rubbish you, WHAT ARE YOU? Rubbish."

... With every day that passes, each of us here knows a little more clearly, feels a little more sure, that our great qualities count far more than our possibly-not-quite-so-great ones. And that those people were WRONG to talk us down like that. Wrong in every way: you never the best out of someone by making them feel small, and you never help them to become their best that way. Those people failed us but we can do it for ourselves. :)

snoop, I know nothing of SS visits but am pretty sure he won't have fooled her so easily.

I'm sorry ladies, I have read posts and was all ready to give thoughts and then I have another frigging curve ball thrown at me. Please give your thoughts I feel like I am pushing a bloody boulder uphill.
Today I have been trying to pin twat on our finances. He has answered some questions but completely ignored others. Sooo I said that I would have to consider legal advice because he won't give me answers.
That was like a red rag to a mad bull.
He told me that he was going to copy MY PARENTS into all our emails so that they could try and persuade me to see sense and not seek legal aid. That legal aid was not in the interests of the children. WTF?
So I get a phone call from my narc mother. He HAS emailed her and she phoned him up. Lo and behold she tried to dissuade me fighting him. Wanted me to take what he said he would offer as it was generous etc etc.
I tried to explain to her that I wanted to get some control over my life, I wanted to seek outside advice and that he was emailing her because he wanted to gain control of me through her.
Of course being a narc all she could talk about was how distressed this was making her. She said, she actually said buttons, I'm trying not to take sides in all this
WHAT??????
I told her I was her daughter of course she should take sides, he was an abusive bastard of course she should take my side.
her reply " Well, that's not fair, I do take your side SOMETIMES"
Then I got" If I'd had my way you'd never have moved in with him"
Of course I tried to point out that abusive men were very cunning and if it were that simply for a woman to leave an abusive man then there would be no abused women seeking help anywhere. She didn't get it at all.
Earlier today she told me that SS had spoken to her. She said she was worried for the children, that they were cared for but I was unhappy. She certainly didn't come cross as batting on my team. She said she was trying to be neutral.
I'm so upset. She is my mother. She is the woman I called when he head butted me, she came round and saw the blood all over my baby's babygro. She knows what has happened.
It's like she has just switched off from it all. How can you be neutral when your daughter is being abused? How?
I seriously don't think she understands how awful he is. I don't think that deep down she believes it.
She even told SS that we didn't always see eye to eye.
I'm getting the feeling that I am now being punished by her for daring to pull away from her and go with twat.
So the 2 significant people in my life are hugely disappointing.
Is she right? perhaps I have totally unrealistic expectations of what a parent does.

By the way thanks a million for the whole 'fogging' idea. I have heard of it and have read a few websites today about it. Sounds great, so simple, but probably difficult to do whilst in the middle of it all.
God I feel like running away.

It's much easier to do than you think. Just pick the one small fact, even if the only fact is "You're upset." And stick to that.
Does it help you to think of what Customer Services would do? (Easyjet staff excepted!) "Oh dear, Mrs Buttons, I understand you're disappointed. I'm afraid I can't refund your purchase, as the item works perfectly. Yes, very disappointing for you. You must be disappointed."

Find ways of detaching from your wish to have your mother on your side. She isn't. I'm sorry to hear it, and know how badly it stings. She's bonkers, BB, nothing you can ever do or say will change that. Best if you don't tell her anything, leave her to cosy up with STBX if she wants.

Of course you need a solicitor, and quick! That's why they're saying you don't need one! They don't want you to get good advice.

Snoop,
not sure what section 20 is or why. But don't worry about what he may or may not have said. Concentrate on what you want to say, what is important to you and how you bring up your family. It's alright, I think, to discuss any issues you may have or things that have cropped up in the past, but also talk about what you have done to solve them. Being in denial about something is a red flag to SS, but saying there is this and I've done that or I think this may be a problem and I'm trying to find out how to deal with it when it comes up is good. They don't expect you to be perfect or to pretend to be perfect.
Don't worry, hope it goes ok

Don't lie for him, Snoop. You're probably in the habit of minimising his crap, keeping up appearances and so on. This is your time to be heard. Tell the visitor about anything at all he does, that makes you feel frightened or confused, and also everything that makes the children nervous or sad. Tell them you walk on eggshells. Speak your truth out loud, at last.
x

Sorry GB how do you practice fogging? I'm rubbish at not getting cross or going into long rambling justifications and feeling guilt-stricken so attempting to justify myself even more - which is why I want to be turn into a clear, calm, collected someone else over the weekend before I go to mediation. Am thinking of spending the evenings muttering to myself. How did you learn it?

Thanks so much, I'm on that knife edge of knowing what's best for kids and us all but overthinking him and his needs. Need to grow some to be able to communicate with sw, I'm scared, scared of him scared for kids.

snoop I had to deal with sw last week and will have to again on Monday. i totally understand that awful sickening feeling regarding what stbex is saying. They are so cunning. Before sw went to chat with stbex. I asked him please to listen carefully, that stbex didn't always tell the truth and I hoped he would use his experience and judgment.
My advice, for what it's worth is to be honest but not over emotional. keep to the facts, tell it how it is.

oooo..bigbuttons, thats horrid. it is so confusing when your MUM doesnt back you up 100% in situations like this. Mines the same, although shes not narc. I can see now that her attitude prevented me from leaving earlier (well it didnt did it, it was actually ME that prevented me from ending it earlier...but you know what I mean). I am lucky enough to have a lovely dad though; who said to me almost exactly what you said- he doesnt understand why she is acting like she is, taking stbxh side; i'm their daughter and even if I was wrong he would take my side; stbxh is just some bloke I married. Its all I needed to hear!

you dont have unrealistic expectations of what a parent does should do

wishing you the strength to carry on without her support in all of this

Notsorted - Imagine I am a "friend" who is a total PITA and not only whinging to you about my life, but blaming everyone else while expecting them to pick up the pieces.

I constantly drop hints and sometimes ask outright if you would take the kids for a few hours/take me shopping/listen to me rant on for an hour at a time on the phone.

You're a kind soul. You want to help. But here's the thing. You get NOTHING back. Vague promises to return the favour which never materialise. A fiver here and there that is never paid back. I take the piss whenever I ask you to look after my kids "for five minutes".

You are starting to get royally fed up of me.

And then you come on here and learn about fogging

Next day the phone rings. You pick it up without thinking.

"Hi, its me" Oh NO. That's all you need. The PITA toxic joy-sucking black hole that is your "friend". And then you remember, and rally.
"Hello" you say, ignoring the whine in my voice. "How are you?"

Deep breath. "Oh, you wouldn't believe it. I am having the shittest day from hell. DS1 has a dentist appt tomorrow and I dont have time to take him. I dont know what to do"

"That's annoying when that happens" you say. You can hear the indrawn breath at the other end. Why aren't you helping meeeee? It says.
"Annoying? It's doing my head in! If I could just get a breathing space..."

"Or not double book everything" you think, as you begin to tune out.
"Oh I know," you say, "Breathing space, ha tell me about it! Listen got to, literally running out the door. Hope you get something sorted. Bye!"

And there you are. Fogging 101

snoopdogg, BB, rabbitpie, do you have your lists yet? Re-read them. Also, do you have your list of Reasons I Need To Leave Twatface? Re-read that as well. Try and re-gain your confidence and focus. And BB, god your mother sounds flaky and crap. I'm so sorry. I hope you have plenty of other people around you to make up for the deficit? It makes me so cross that some mums can be so rubbish. Let's all take a vow here and now to never repeat their mistakes!

notsorted, know exactly how you feel, the frustration at not being calmer and more collected during 'discussions'. I would love just an ounce of fogging techniques.

bigbuttons - I want to yell FORGET ABOUT YOUR MUM TALK TO US INSTEAD!
In a nice way tho! And followed by a hug.

Your DP and your Mother are one and the same I'm afraid. Not interested or indeed capable of supporting you in the slightest. Only good at furthering their OWN agenda. The sooner you put them both in their box the better.

That fogging sounds like a good way to avoid using up all your energy, before you leave. It might still have made my x really mad though!!! even though a normal person could not reasonably be mad that somebody was agreeing with them, I know my x would have been pissed off that I was semi-successfully managing his treatment of me. That would have made him really mad actually. BUT if there were other people around it would have worked well to difuse a situation.

Rabitte, I#d talk to him in clichés if you can't avoid talking to him at all. oh i'm sorry to hear that. i hope there's better news soon. I'm wishing him well. But only if you HAVE to say anything at all.

Thanks GArlicButter

Bigbuttons, I have to pick up on something in your post that is something my psychologist picked out of my childhood. OK, now I'm not into blaming my mum and in fact our adult relationship is good. BUT, when I was a child she wasn't very good at saying things to make me feel better if that was what I needed.

If I fell she'd say 'get up you're fine' or 'be careful'. If I had an earache she'd say 'you'll feel better at the bus stop'. eg, I remember once I suddenly realised aged about 12 that my best friend was really pretty and I felt invisible in comparison, and quite sad about something I'd never thought about before, and I tried to share this with my mum. She said 'oh but how many peole are really pretty?'. WOW. all the things that she could have said instead! but she said that! and she's not a bad person.

so the psychologist made me see that I haven't learned how to make myself feel better, I have not got that internal voice that makes one feel better. I'm very tuned into the critical voices though. But the sort of voices that say soothing comforting reassuring uplifting things to make one feel better when one is down/sad/confused.......... there's a deafening silence from that section of the orchestra inside my own head!. I hope this makes sense to you.

Never thought I'd be telling people all about my therapy sessions!