Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 3

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

New thread - will copy our library of links in the following posts

Barbie AD's won't cloud your judgement, if anything they will help you see things more clearly. I've been on mine for about 6 weeks now (so think they should've kicked in now) and my feelings haven't changed. He's still an arse and I'm still leaving him. I'm just doing it now knowing that my ishoos aren't being skewed by depression.

You will get through this hon. Sorry I can't offer any advice.

Hi all, very little time to post at the mo with 3 teens at home but am trying to keep up with the thread.

Barbie, everything you say resonates with me. I don't know what to advise you as I don't know the answer for my own situation. I'm schlepping along here, listening to H and his constant grumbling. At times I just think I cannot cannot cannot live like this. Other times I think I can manage it - I might as well be miserable here with him in a big house as miserable in a tiny flat, without him, but with all the shit that would hit the fan if I were to leave. I would never leave my dc's and what kind of life would I give them on my own? My head goes round and round, my resentment seethes inside me, my anger threatens to overwhelm me. I hate him, I hate myself, I'm sad that my dc's don't have the contented parents they should have.

A few minutes ago, he was moaning about people calling him using a with-held number. I suggested a solution. He snapped "what do you think that resolves? When have you ever resolved anything?"

I said "well actually then they wouldn't call you on a with-held number"

No apology. Just changed the subject to something else he could moan about.

Thanks for letting me rant.

I wonder if I can join here?

I have a very difficult situation with my mother. I have known since I was a child that something is not right with her. My father recently passed away and now I can see completely clearly that she needs help . I wish I knew what was actually wrong though. I have looked at the site out of the fog - thanks for the link to whoever put it up - but it is so full of different defintions and lists that it is impossible to carry on and differentiate one behaviour from teh others.

In short she is seriously abusive. She says and does things that no-one else would and then denies that she has done them. She can never see or discuss the consequences of her own actions and relies heavily on emotional blackmail.

I fully recognise the abuse cycle . She is now in a phase of penitence having cause absolute chaos in my house recently. She called just tonight and my heart went out to her. I coudln't talk when she called and said I'd call her back - I almost never do return her calls - and she said in a small voice " lisalisa please try and call me some time - I am so terribly lonely since dad passed away". I was in tears myself at that as I recognise her pain and loneliness and despair but she causes such terrible destruction when I am with her that it is so hard.

I found myself offering - against my better intentions - that she should come over tomorrow and stay till friday night. Now I am terrified. But what can i do? Abandon her?

Lisalisa, well done for recognising what's up with your mother. I'm afraid you can't help her (and it's unlikely she'd want to get real help for herself, sEeIng how she's the one who is RIGHT.) Your poor dad.

Yes. You can abandon her. Alternatively, you can have her over and kick her out the second she plays games - how long will that be, even if she's in 'hoovering' mode? Half an hour? A day?

If you've seen your mother on several pages in Out Of The Fog, you're talking about a severe disorder - not some bad behaviour that can be fixed with a stern talk. I'm sorry.

Thanks garlicbutter. I don't feel I can abandon her. That would be complete and utter cruelty and I do feel that she suffers from a mental disorder similar to a physical disorder and i wouldn't abandon her if she broke a leg. Also her pain is so real and palpable. They were married for 54 years and my father was an absolute saint. I also miss him so very much and still cry all the time. He passed away in June so it is very recent.

It is comforting to hear you mention the hoovering point. I read that on out of the fog and realised that this cycle of abuse is exactly what goes on with my mother.

I guess I can have her over and tell her to leave if any of the abuse begins. Sometimes I feel so sorry for her and sometimes I absolutely hate and fear her. The worst times are when she has reduced me to a sobbing wreck in front of my children and she just sits and looks at me as if I were an interesting exhibit at a museum completely without emotion.

This may well seem inordinately cruel, Lisa, but here goes. I've no doubt at all that she misses your dad dreadfully. She's had an uninterrupted 54-year 'supply' - someone to control, to belittle, to enhance her idea of her own status and to lord it over. He's gone. She must be screaming inside with pain ... like a junkie on cold turkey. I suspect you're her next supply of choice. Thank goodness you've read the OOTF site. Go carefully (or not at all.)

You must be missing your dad. Please be sure to take good, nurturing care of yourself before your mother. x

Oh my goodness garlicbutter - you are quite right . That is exactly what has happened in terms of her " supply" although she also genuinely adored him. He was a very special man - hate to write " was". He still is even though he's not here any more.

I am so scared for tomorrow when she comes round. Last time she came round she was so sugar sweet and quiet and humble I felt even more scared! No doubt this time she will be a bit more confident. I suppose its the next time that I need to be worried about.

I really recognise from the ootf website the picking fights stage - the baiting so that the heavy stuff can begin - the screaming and blackmail and really nasty horrible stuff. I think if I can spot the picking fights stuff beginning and take myself away at th at point i may be able to avoid it.

Is there anywhere easier to read and more concise than that website at "diagnosing " exactly which condition my mother may have?

There's a useful summary on wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder - though you still have to follow lots of links to get details!

The important thing to remember about personality disorders is that they are what it says on the tin. They are very rigid personalities, on which one or two character facets are writ large while the rest remain undeveloped. They are inflexible, which is why afflicted people seem to follow 'scripts'. People with a disordered personality are emotionally 'stuck' at a certain age; when you know them well, you can often tell what age that is (my mother's intelligent, well-read, capable - and emotionally six years old.)

From what you said about her impassive scrutiny of the wreckage she made of you, it seems she'd most likely be a Cluster B type. Instead of knocking yourself out on a diagnosis, how about learning from your father? What were his tactics, and which ones worked? (Hint: may have involved a liberal coating of "Yes, dear, you're so right, how clever of you"?)

For you, Lisa, and many others here - my favourite Chinese proverb: "A strong wind breaks trees; it only bends grass."

If you have to deal with such difficult people, be as supple as grass.
Better still, get out of the way - then you won't get flattened.

LisaLisa, feel for you.. It was so hard to cut an x partner out of my life. I don't know how people ever become free of an abusive parent. IF you can't cut her out (and I'd understand that, especially right NOW) I'd recommend meeting her in neutral places and as soon as she says something nasty disappear off to the loo and don't come back.

SeriouslyNow, yeah, the classic treating my partner like dirt coping mechanism. You get ranted and raved at but that calms them down. After he's made you feel like a fucking wreck he probably feels a bit better. A bit.

my x definitely has NPD fits like a glove.

Bandwithering, you got it, I didn't know that behaviour was a classic too. You've made me feel better tonight!

Lisa, sorry for what you're going through. Stick around, there's such good support here.

Bandwithering, I didn't know about that classic coping mechanism either, but X did precisely that in one of our last arguments. He didn't get to make me feel shit because I called him on it, but he said he was "only venting" and "needed to get it off (his) chest" and "didn't mean it"

Thank you for that important insight!
(does happy dance)

Lisa can't add much to the excellent advice except to say, as with all abusive people, once you reduce them to a series of predictable behaviours (even if its simply their ability to make you feel crap) which you know they are incapable of modifying, you can then limit their power over you, effectively putting them in a box.

I don't know if that makes sense, but it's what I have done with ex. My interactions with him are limited and his behaviour rarely disappoints or distresses me anymore as I have learned not to depend on him for anything. He claimed to be coming down with something so couldn't pick DD up today. I scarcely registered tbh, and anyway am always glad NOT to see him.

oh I didn't know about it when I was with him, and then I read a thread,a predecessor to this one over a year ago now, maybe two! and testimony after testimony it was so similar. They were all being arseholes to order, bad behaviour to a precise formula.

Then when they've made themselves feel better by ranting at you (sometimes for hours ) they feel refreshed and ready to be human again, but you, you awkward bitch you have a face on you for some reason !!! Sometimes they act hurt that you aren't in the mood for a cup of tea and a chat about their favourite subject.

So as experts I take it you would consider the following to be EA. I am starting to doubt myself as he is being nice at mo.
(d)h has been little support to me after loss of my mum. Even asked why I was crying the evening of her funeral. Although maybe by generally appearing strong in front of people he doesn't realise how much I am hurting.
He had a go at me in front of his mum because I haven't cleared out garage.
He posted on facebook because I took children away for the day to visit family instead of staying home doing my job. Presumably to clean house! (accept house is a tip at moment)
When I visited family before xmas he sent me a text saying if you are not home by x time don't bother coming home.
Having read other posts I am also beginning to feel like I am probably depressed. I do have days when things just don't get done. Obv dc are fed etc but the house seems to take a backseat.
Another thing I thought about is that he doesn't like to admit he is wrong. Things are normally someone elses fault.
Ie its dc fault that he won't eat ice lollies he brought.
So a little disjointed. Off on holiday now with dc. We should have a lovely time.
Thank you

WEll from the little snapshot of one day there, he has shown a few signs. He seems impervious to your extreme distress, the reason for it and the need you have to be supported right now

He has 'humiliated' you on facebook, or if not humiliated you, mocked you, or questioned your judgement in a public arena... at a time when you need support

A clean house is more important than you spending time with your family

He doesn't think that you are allowed a day off from your job of servitude under ANY circumstances quite clearly.

From this one short post, I am thinking 'heartless man' who considers himself the boss of you.

YES you mgiht well be depressed living with this indefinitely. Is your holiday without him/ I hope so! enjoy the time away from him
xx

Thank you for that. Those incidents are probably over a period of about 7 months but there is probably more.
Holiday is without him. I think he is also probably jealous of this as he has seid things like "how much of my money is this holiday going to cost"

Still though, trust your gut instinct. You don't feel it's right. You don't feel he gets you, supports you.

This is your LIFE. It's not a court of law where you have to prove that you deserve better! YOU just do, end of. You're not obliged to be with him. You don't owe him more and more and more chances just because HE DOES NOT understand why he's letting you down. YOU understand why and how he's letting you down. You don't need him to 'get' it before you are free to kick him into outer space!!!

I am really sorry about your mum. enjoy your holiday with the kids. It'll be money well spent and if he grudges it, it's cos he's MEAN.

A lot of these characters who are verbally, emotionally, physically abusive are also financially abusive too. My x had the whole arsenal of abusive behaviours in his quiver.

can I ask-- do any of you feel anxious in other areas of your life as a result of your relationship?

I am having a bit of a melt down about my parenting at the moment...feel really sick, upset, knot in my stomach, tearful and a bit panicky

normally very sure of myself

Reason I feel like it might be related to my relationship is that its all a bit confused in my head (much like relationship 'stuff') I cant pinpoint specifics, I cant trust my judgement/instincts, not sure if Im being over crytical or over protective....

garrrhh!

Hi BJ
yes, absolutely. Sometimes feel as if all the dilemmas over ex are spreading like a cancer through my life. I said to someone recently (before he finally went) that I'd prefer him inside the tent pissing out than outside and potentially pissing all over the rest of our lives.
Are yours on holiday though? It's that tough time when routine gets thrown out of the window.
I was thinking, but haven't done, a really boring timetable for everything ... getting up/going to bed/what we are eating so that all the indecisiveness in one area of my life doesn't spill over into the other parts. I think if you have been thrown off course by relationship it makes everything else out of balance. Not very cheery, but basically I know where you're coming from
Have a ((hug)) to cheer you up

yeson holidaysalways a bit of an anticlimax eh?

trouble has come from spending too much alot of time with a friend and her dc. Completely different parenting style, which I DO know and have known since we have been friends. She has been quite judgemental of me and mine I feel. Normally wouldnt be phased at all. But really shaken me.

Think I am recognising that I have been ignoring my instincts in other areas of my life, as well as with stbxh. I think I KNEW that we as a mum and dcs are not compatible with them. But now with conflict am looking for reasons to make it my fault i.e. am I blind to my own failings as a parent/ am I blind to my dcs being difficult/ etc etc etc

just need to trust myself a bit more. I think. Thats the problem ; 'i think'

thanks for the hug - need it right now

is everybody here medicated?! am thinking I might need some...dont think Im depressed (had PND and doesnt feel like that) but really anxious-will it help?

oh it would help with the anxiety yeah. you're in a permenent state of waiting for the next drama.... that is draining.

i find parenting hard. But at least i'm not being undermined all the time. I know if their dad were around, he'd never ever back me up EVER, and he'd criticise me in front of them. it'd be a nightmare.