Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 3

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

New thread - will copy our library of links in the following posts

MO, it was a slow climb to get the residual fear/control to where it got to, so it's only fair to take a while to disperse. But it will if you let it go and reassure yourself along the way.

notsorted, I dunno if that will have any bearing on anything, and indeed MIL and OW may discount it.

But TBH who cares? YOU will have got it out there. YOU will have created a document that can be potentially used in court. YOU can back it all up, and he knows it. YES it may give you greater bargaining position, and with any luck it may rule out mediation all together.

Once you have produced this document, it may be of such great strength to you, in that you can read and refer to it whenever you need to. You know it's the truth, he knows it's the truth, and it'll give you a truth to hold on to.

i say do it anyway. Fingers crossed it'll have some weight.

garlicbutter barbie and hissy thank you. I realise that making the Fear separate from me was a step in itself, rather than feeling that it was stuck inside me.

notsorted I would focus on his abusive behaviour, not yours. instead of using words like flaky (which takes the spotlight off their unreasonable behaviour) could you say something like " his abusive behaviour has had a negative impact on my day to day life, esp my mental health"
Hope this isn't patronising but why should you take responsibility for what his behaviour has done to you? If it wasn't for him you wouldn't be suffering in this way.

making the Fear separate from me

That's an excellent way of looking at it. Thanks. I think that's going to be very helpful to me.

Somebody mentioned a while ago that dp was actually doing this because dp wanted out of the relationship and it was a way for dp to make you kick him out. My last and final over-analytical minimising normalising excuse I can give him. We have had several arguments that go right to the point of 'right well you can just bloody go then' (to my mum's or whatever) and then he storms off and I'm left there thinking 'right that's it' - but I'm not moving out - and then logistics get involved and it's unbearably complicated.

Barbie, that was me. I kept feeling that he was upping the ante, behaving so callously that I'd just get fed up and do the ousting myself. So it became a game of if I do my worst ... trouble is I got advice sometimes to just ignore his childishness, he is winding you up and don't take any notice, or turn the other cheek. I did get angry back at times, sometimes tearful. But sticking point, and I think he knew it, was determination to work things out on my part and his dithering over consequences of choices he made on his. Classic I want to have my cake and eat it too response.
So you both have choices ... to go or stay, to work or not, to offer ticket to farside of f* or for someone to buy their own.
Not much help in reaching a resolution, is it? May be that's why it's so damned complicated?
Can you take a break somehow from each other? You go on 'holiday' to your mum's, one or other of you takes a little break on your own?

Sorry, I've not been posting. You might not remember me. bastard stbex has been slagging me off to the police/social services. My general incompetence as a mother and the emotional welfare of the children how the house was full of my shit and clutter, his part of the house was the only part clean ( it' not it's an absolute disgusting pigsty. The children were neglected . I spent too much time on ebay and MN and didn't bother with the children etc etc. I Thought he'd been a bit quiet lately. So SS are coming over tomorrow to see me, and him seperately. Good I say. They seemed very helpful on the phone. I told them I had nothing to hide and talked about his behaviour. The guy actually said they count that as domestic and financial abuse.
Part of me is mortified that SS are involved, another part relieved that this can get out in the open.What a fucking low life he is. I read about men like him in Lundy. Never thought he would do it though

(( bigbuttons ))

Your reaction that you have nothing to hide is exactly right. In fact, if you're anything like me and many of the women who suffer abuse, you will probably even downplay the abusiveness of his behaviour and not think to mention certain relevant events to the authorities, without even realising you're doing it. I know I forgot to say loads to the police because, well, I still felt I should only speak when spoken to and answer direct questions, rather than volunteer information off my own bat.

So my recommendation ignore at will! would be to make a written list of every factual element you can think of, with approximate dates if possible, of your ex's behaviour, that you think would be relevant for SS to know. Do this with a calm mind before they come visit, with enough time to add to the list as things pop into your head.

Bigbuttons
Second Puppy's thoughts. Also think about where you want this headed. I did the minimising bit because I wanted the relationship to continue ... so was obliquely trying to appeal to his better nature and show him in a good light ie make excuses.
So as you make a list think of the impression you want to give. That sounds a bit calculating but since they can't/don't have the time or inclination to unpick the relationship rather they take a snapshot it's important to think what elements you want to be considered. They can then make their judgement from there

puppy thanks, I'll try and do that. Trouble is my mind just goes blank. It's like I block individual incidents out. I have become numb to it all and they have all merged into one horrible mess. I remember the incidents of physical violence and told the SS bloke about the most serious one.
I'll note some things down this evening

notsorted Oh I want him gone/us gone. I want him to be forced to sell the house/leave the house.

bb, SS are coming to see you? HE called SS on YOU? jesus christ, if it weren't so jaw droppingly mean of him, it'd actually be funny!

Tell them EVERYTHING, be calm, matter of fact, cry if you feel you want to, be YOU.

How can this arsewipe think that calling SS on his own wife will be of any effect. Tell them that you are desperate to get him away from you, that you can't bear any more of his abuse of you and that he is refusing to leave, causing fights, and now this.

Hugs BB, we are all here for you.

Hi, I just wanted to come back to say thanks for all of the support last week. I've ordered "why does he do that" as my local Waterstones didn't have a copy and I'll read it when it comes in. I've not been back to this thread as other events have taken over life at the moment, but I've taken on board what everyone has said and am just gearing myself up to talking to H when we get a moment alone.
I'm still finding it hard to accept that I may not be able to fix this and that having parents who are separate will be better for the DCs than us being together, even though rationally I know its the case. Its going to take some time, but thanks for taking the time to help me so far.

Meant to say, this will - with any luck - back fire spectacularly on him!

Be ready for him to use every trick in the book. If you hear him blatantly lying, tell him VERY CALMLY to back it up with evidence, and reassure him that you can back your side up. Stay calm, let all his crazy be the rope he hangs himself with. Speed read Lundy and remember what tricks these bastards employ and be ready for him.

I'm thinking that seeing as you have had the chat with the chap, and he has said about it being potential financial and domestic abuse that he ought to see through your DH, and this could be exactly what YOU need to get him out of your life.

You do realise that seeing as he's raised the game to this level now, that he has to be removed, that he really is the enemy for now? Don't spare him any sympathies, put yourself and your family in prime focus, and dulldoze him out of your way. dig deep and be determined.

notsorted yes it was you - it's a thought that's been at the back of my mind for the past few days. He's so used to fighting that he can't see my attempts at 'fixing' things as positive. So then he's immediately defensive, determined to be the one that wins this battle (which it never ever was). It even happened this morning when I refused a cuddle - I feel like my space is being invaded. When refused he goes apeshit and attacks (verbally). "You should read about what's going on when women don't want sex in a relatiohship. Have a look at some of the stuff on the internet". Sheeeeeesh. He's furious because it's the one thing he wangle his way round. It's the one thing he needs from me and he can't control.

It's so unlikely now that we'll get through this. I have a good life, bad stuff too, not wealthy but not complaining. Reasonable friends, reasonable family, not brilliant but reasonable job prospects. He should be lucky I'm the sort of woman that doesn't do hairdressers, prefers Primark to Prada, camping to Caribbean, homecooked to the Ivy, Lidl to M&S. Playgrounds not ponies, mainstream not private, snowballs to ski-ing.

I used to be angry, then thought I was being clingy and saw it as letting him go, now I'm detached and wistful in a Lundy kind of way, but still wanting him to move to a different headspace because he will always be the father of my kids and I want the best for them.

Dear Barbie,

I know where you're at. I got weighed in the balance with DCs and attendant chaos against OW, and all I ever wanted was to say ok, this is difficult, kids are hard work but if you back down I will too. Though some things just aren't negotiable with DCs around.
Yup, he is still the father of the DCs and it is a bloody shame that can't see the wood for the trees means the DCs never get to see their parents in the same space again. I have flickers of hope that somehow, sometime, somewhere we can have a successful parenting arrangement, but am not going to bend over backwards to let him walk all over me re that one. (So don't come and slap me with a reality check, Hissy).
Guess we've all got to take that journey, with all the twists and turns along the way.

bigbuttons so he wants to get SS involved?
As someone who also had SS involvement, can I recommend, if you haven't already, you get as may agencies as possible involved - Women's Aid, GP, Health Visitor (mine was brilliant) anything that will result in documented statements.
I do know how hectic your life is but all I can say is, it really helped me.
Hissy is spot on btw - be yourself, dont be afraid to show the stress you are under because of him.
PM me if you want.

Talking about children. I've just read the thread about people who had EA parents and tbh it sent chills down my spine.
Some of the descriptions of how hurtfull some behviours were to people. I can see so many of them in H attitude towards the cds...
Just tonight, we were at the table. dc1 started to fool around asking for a kiss and a cuddle. I did give him some. dc2 was in front of me, sat next to H. He asked for a cuddle in the same way (head on his arm, just saying cudles and looking at his dad with expectation). H just removed his arm, looked annoyed and told him to 'sit up properly'. Arrrrgh.....

Anyway this prompted me to ask you all, how do you think you can protect our dcs from this EA when they will be with their dad (but we won't be there)? How can you protect our dcs when we are still together (the case for me but not for long!). If I was kicking off each time H is unreasonnable with the dcs, the atmosphere in the house would be just awful. How can you explain to a child their dad behaviour isn't OK without looking like you are slagging him off?

Dear Peppa
my fears exactly. I guess it's sink or swim. If they can't hack he responsibility then they will either give up or eventually DCs will lose interest. I've found some quite interesting things on co-parenting, and part one is to detach utterly, hard to do but also gets them to detach from blaming you. My ex, during the bits when he did do things on his own would then blame me for the boredom, his lack of money, having to put DCs first. Which is why now I'm thinking about the strongest boundary between me and him, and limiting the opportunities for him to f* them up, but have the proviso in mind that if issues are sorted, he knows he can't push because of previous experience and if he proves himself then he can have more time with them.
I talked to counsellor about whether I was being vindictive/controlling but she assured me that given what had happened I had every reason to be protective.
One thing that led to confusion earlier this year is that I saw it as him taking some of the load of parenting off my shoulders and expected him to fill in childcare gaps/give me a break.
Now I recognise he is far too selfish just not capable of doing that so I won't get my hopes up when contact is resumed.

Should be sorting the washing but ended up back on the computer and found this
abuserecovery
Found it empowering

What started this off was that a few weeks ago my eldest daughter 9.5 ran away over the fields. She was in a foul mood and had had a row with one of her sisters. I was of course unaware she had run away. We have a large garden and live in a village with a one, where she spends a lot of her time. She was stopped by some bikers who called the police and the police brought her home. I did not speak to the police when they brought her back. I was putting the small ones to bed and then dealing with dd1. I knew their father was talking to the police and didn't think it necessary that we both were there.
STBEX told me that he had chatted with the police and given them details of all who lived in the house etc.
The police told him they would have to connect SS as a legal requirement. Apparently they have to in any situation where a child is involved with the policed.
I thought nothing more of it until SS phoned yesterday and to my horror said that the police had expressed concerns bout the emotional etc well being of the children. I asked him to read exactly what the police had written. It was then it unfolded that STEBEX had raised concerns with the police about my parenting and abilities as a mother and my inability to care for the children's needs or to look after them on my own once we moved out.

I feel sick and shaky, My narc mother isn't much help. She says she wants to keep out of it because she finds it all too confusing.
STBEX told her that he would buy me a house without having to sell this one. Of course he has omitted to tell me this
I know I have friends who can vouch for me as can the school and preschool.

he told the police that he didn't know if the children had to get their own breakfasts in the morning as he don't get up until 8.30. FFS I COOK him a full English EVERY MORNING. I also cook breakfast for my eldest AND for any other child who wants it. This morning for example. DD£ had 2 rashers of bacon and an omelette and a cup of tea. Ds3 had bacon and tea. DD2 had a fried egg and tea.
He's such a bastard.

YOu are so right he is the enemy.
Thank you for your words of advice. I will stay calm but I also wear my heart on my sleeve and I will honest with SS about why he is doing and how I feel.
Yes hopeful he will hang himself today with his own madness

bignbuttons this must be such a stressful situation to be in.

I have never had to deal with SS, but as an outside observer I believe it can only be good to be honest with SS about the information your ex misled them on, just stating the reality of what you know and do and feel, without necessarily castigating him for misleading them (rising above the blame game he's playing).

Eg.: "The DC are well fed and cared for, here's their schedule, here's what I cook for them, etc. When DD1 ran away I was unaware of it because she regularly plays in the garden or in x location with the village children, and she knows to come home in situations x, y or z. Her action that day was out of character, and I spoke to her about it afterward and she was able to raise concerns about a, b and c.

My H and I are splitting up at the moment, which may be adding to stress for the children. I have concerns about his treatment of me and the effect it may be having on the children, which is why I have chosen to split.

For example, earlier this summer he said x to me in y situation. This is similar to another event last year where he did x when y upset him, and then blamed me for his own actions. Other incidents include ..[state the facts]..

I am often scared and confused by his behaviour, and concerned about the effect it may be having on the children. So after x amount of time trying to work things out I have concluded that the situation is unlikely to improve, and that a separation/divorce will be healthier for all of us.

etc etc."

The facts are in your favour. State them clearly, and know ahead of time the important points that you want to put forward. If you're not asked directly about them, don't hesitate to volunteer them, ie: "I'd like to make clear that ..[all the stuff above].."

Back on here because I'd really like someone to tell me that I am not asking the impossible. I know in my heart that I can't carry on like this and have tried yet again to sort this out with DH but he refuses to work with me on our marriage as I am the only one with issues about it apparently. I want the following from him, he refuses to deal or accept any of them. Am I really asking too much???
I would like him to admit how he lied to me for 3 years over something and also to stop the little White lies he tells. To take more responsibility if parenting our children. To stop belittling me in front of them. To stop trying to be intimate with me in the night and to accept that I am not his property to be touched/groped when he wants. And lastly to actually get a permanent contraceptive solution sorted out so I don't worry myself into a frenzy every month that I might be pg. I had 3 bad pgs and deliveries and I cannot go through that again. My dr refused to consider me being sterilised as I have a lot of internal problems that could be worsened. He promised me he would five years ago. His only defence is he might want children with his second wife!
I can't move past these issues. I have a counsellor and she's fab but we are arguing every day. The atmosphere is thick with it and I'm near snapping point. Am I asking too much of a 17 year marriage???

Hi bellatrix : I think you want to be told that what you are asking for is reasonable, AND you want your husband to accept that, and put your requests into action.

For the first part, what you are asking seems objectively reasonable. But more to the point, you are always entitled to feel the way you feel; to have needs and to express them, whatever those needs may be.

For the second part: you are indeed asking for "too much" if what you are asking for requires change on the part of another person, and that other person is not willing to change.

It doesn't matter how "right" and "reasonable" your requests are. If he doesn't want to do it... he doesn't want to do it. You can't make him change, you can't make him want to change.

It's a shame, it's a pity, it's infuriating that it can't be another way. But if you have repeatedly made requests, told him how you feel, and he has repeatedly ignored your requests and your feelings, then maybe it's time to accept that he can't or he won't.

What action do you you want to take? One that doesn't involve him, as you are the only person you can make decisions for.

puppy thank you. What sensible advice. My head is such a blur. I'm so uptight and tired. I can't think straight. I will bear what you say in mind when I am talking to the chap. Hopefully it will all come out as I am talking to him.
What a bloody nightmare. I never in a million years thought my life would come to this. t's like i'm living someone else's life. How on earth did I get to this point?