Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships 3

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

New thread - will copy our library of links in the following posts

MO have pm'd you

bigbuttons do whatever you need to do to remain as calm and serene as possible right now, in the run-up to the SS chap's visit.

You'll have plenty of time later to work out how it all came to this (hint: it's not your fault!).

Right now, just take care of yourself and prepare calmly and logically for the SS visit. Do you have a friend you can chat to / go out with to take your mind off things for a bit? Take a long soaky bubble bath? Do something nice for yourself.

thanks puppy actually we've just had our hair dresser round. Sounds posh I know but it' easier to have her come here than drag all of us to the salon she works in and I get her at a cheaper rate
So anyway we are all immaculately coiffed AND I and have just had all my long hair cut off into ashort pixie bob and dyed!!! I'm really happy with it. STBEX likes women to have long long hair.

I love short pixie bobs!

I love doing something you like that's a bit of a "f you" to exes even more!

bb - well done, you are going to get through this.

Your own H lied to the SS to try and get your DC removed from you? Knocks my "HH was in a mental institute for 5 years" into a cocked had Seriously, now you know where you stand, that this man will stop at nothing to destroy you, to take away all the good things in your life.

At least now you have a last straw to end all last straws. Love the pixie bob thing too! well done!

Today is the first day of the rest of your life, new leaf time. Now be 100% transparent about H, TELL EVERYONE EVERYTHING! Why remain loyal to him? he was never so to you was he? If that 'man' even so much as raises an eyebrow in your direction, let alone has the balls to chastise or criticize anthing you do, then simply state. "You have no place in my life, you 'informed' on me to SS" Repeat every single time he challenges you. TELL him he's going. TELL him he is the one to be leaving and to go as soon as possible before you put him through the indignancy of calling the police and having him removed, but that you will if you have to.

When X did the Mental Institute thing to me, that was IT, i repeated it over and over again, any time he came near me, anytime he said anything to me I reminded him that I'd not be sleeping with a man who lied to friends to say I'd been committed.

You have reached the final strait. You may even be able to see the finish line if you squint. It's there, waiting for you, stay on track and keep pushing forward, this guy is all but gone from your life.

Whoo, congrats on your new hair, buttons

Wrt DCs and access, Peppa and notsorted -it makes a lot of sense to educate Dcs about abuse and its mechanisms. The sort of things you've been learning can be fascinating to children (phrased clealry) and it'll stand them in good stead for life. Two posters called pinemartina and MummieHunnie did this, if you want to search their posts in Relationships. You can give your DCs the tools to identify what their Dad's doing, which should in turn help them to recognise they haven't 'deserved' any weird treatment and not to internalise it so much.

justcallmebellatrix - Ditto, you want us to tell you everything will be OK? It will. It'll be fine, you will be happy, healthy, relaxed and loved.

but not if you stay with this H of yours. Sorry.

He doesn't want to change, why should he? where are the consequences? That you are upset, sad, miserable, oppressed? That's right where he wants you to be, right where he'll always keep you.

I would like him to admit how he lied to me for 3 years over something and also to stop the little White lies he tells

He's a liar, he won't stop, again why should he? he gets what he wants by lying.

To take more responsibility if parenting our children.

That'd be work for him! He doesn't do kids, that's YOUR job.

To stop belittling me in front of them.

It keeps you in your place, and teaches them how to grow up and treat you, so even after he's gone, if you let him poison them further, they will carry on with what he started.

To stop trying to be intimate with me in the night and to accept that I am not his property to be touched/groped when he wants.
You ARE his property, you have no say, why on earth would you? That is what he thinks and to remove this right from him is as serious as it is to remove your right to vote. His needs are all that matter.

And lastly to actually get a permanent contraceptive solution sorted out so I don't worry myself into a frenzy every month that I might be pg.
This to me is akin to sexual abuse! he demands it, knowing that it could actually kill you if you get PG.

His only defence is he might want children with his second wife!
Finally he's talking sense... if he can find someone stupid enough to take on his sorry, abusive, controlling arse, all the very best of luck to her.

Seriously love, this guy is a write-off. YANBU to expect and insist upon a decent, inclusive, supportive marriage, but YABU to expect one to come from this bloke.

You've given him 17 years worth of chances, I think that's enough to establish that he really ISN'T ever going to be a decent anything.

garlic would you be able to pinpoint more precisely where about the posts were? I've tried to do a search on both names but didn't get anywhere.

justcallmebellatrix, I agree that only your H can and will do the changes. You obvioulsy have been asking him for a long time and it hasn't worked. Time for a change of attitude and ways of dealiong with things I think.
HerHissyness has one way to look at things. In effect he is an EA and you will need to deal with with that in mind. It does take time and courage to accept that though.
In the mean time, you can change your ways to respond. Be more assertive. When he is aclling you namesm don't accept it or be aggressive in return (I am sure we all have done one or the other at some point). Just pull him off and say 'I don't think this comment was warranted' or 'Insults are not acceptable in this house'. Even if this doesn't change his nehviour, it will empower you.
Re the arguments, try not to engane with him. You cna choose NOT to be angry by his words.

Carry on with the counsellor. Everything will become clearer with time and you will get stronger and more able to stand up to him.

Puppy/HH and Peppa - thank you all very much for your replies. Yes I have been trying to change him for years. And bottom line is he does not want to change, because he is happy. I have no idea how he CAN be happy when I am so obviously not but think that says an awful lot. I have tried calmly discussing separating with him but I am totally aware that it would not be amicable. The more I discuss this kind of thing with him, the more I wake up to find him touching me. The more he sulks, or acts tearful or tries to involve our DC in the arguments.
I'm not claiming to be the perfect wife, I know I'm far from that but I want more than this. I feel empowered, I am getting more detached every day. But the whole implications of me leaving I just can't get my head round.

This might hurt, but it's better to face the truth sooner rather than later. I'm sorry, this is a crappy thing to have to accept, but you need to.

He is happy BECAUSE you are not.

Think about it, you are telling him what you don't like, what upsets you, hurts, makes you feel miserable, and he does it MORE!

Non-abusive guys would stop.

Have you read Lundy Bancroft Why Does He Do That?

Don't be afraid of the book, it's hugely supportive, removes ALL your blame (rightfully so) and shows you how you are NOT alone.

I agree for you to continue with the counselling, but not if it's to continue the status quo. Victims of abuse often plump for counselling and ADs as a way of managing and coping with the hell that is their day-to-day. Trouble is, this enables the abuse to continue, and in fact escalate, our self esteem to plummet still further, and we are dependant on ADs for the rest of our existence. That's a prison of fear and misery from where I stand and only serves to show our DC how they are supposed to live. In so doing, creating abusers and victims of the future.

Ok it's a plan, but IMHO, better to sever the source of the poison in our lives and after a bit of work/counselling, we'll be free of the abuse, the drugs and in time the therapy. We'll be available to LIVE, to love and to be free.

Thank you HH
I had been considering ADs a few weeks ago but seem to have turned a corner all by myself. I didn't cry at my counsellor appt this week for the first time. In fact I actually laughed as I was telling her some of the things he has said/done because now I can look at it without it hurting quite so much it is easier to see the funny side of the pathetic things he does.

We don't have a spare bedroom and he refuses to sleep downstairs. When I have tried to do so he has made a huge deal about it culminating in the children being woken up. Is there anything I can do to make him understand the touching is not appropriate? Surely he realises that? I hate waking up to find him pressed against me holding me so tightly and rubbing his hands on me. There are only so many times I can politely ask him to stop!

I'm sorry, Peppa, I can't identify the relevant posts - they're probably spread out across threads. Pinemartina educated her DCs to see and reject what her XP was doing: the game-playing, the recruitment of allies, the charm and the rages. I believe she read one of the books on emotional abuse with her teenage DD. MummieHunnie was, like me, a student of Transactional Analysis and used TV shows to point out the TA games to her DC. I'm currently loving the characters in Corrie and 'Stenders; the writers must have read all 'our' books for inspiration! MummieHunnie liked reality shows because, there, you see people acting out their life scripts for real, all unknowing and perfect for informed dissection.

While I didn't find what I was looking for, I did revisit this moving recovery thread.

Oh and I have the book - it's very good. It's helped so much :)

BigButtons - how did it go with SS? Thinking of you.

Evening,
sorry not be of much cheer to anyone. But hope it went ok with ss BB?
Um, have worked out why I'm so worried about mediation - sorry is one of my bugbears.
Ok I don't want him to shout at me, I'm getting scared of that already. I also don't want to end up crying, am pretty low most days as I know all the responsibility of the DCs rests on me. I don't want to provoke him by saying anything about what I feel, especially since I'm mixed up by it all. But I have to go, I think.
For him it is easy. Him seeing DCs, yes or no answer. When? How much time?
It's me who's all cut up about everything. So feeling completely vulnerable. And I know mediator is there for practical not emotional stuff.
Basically, the whole sorry mess has meant that if he gets in any way angry or doesn't say much, or refuses to discuss certain subjects, I am liable to burst into tears. So what is the chance of him being sweet as pie? Not sure?
And would I trust how he is behaving anyway.
I basically don't want to be stuck in a room with him, but I know I've got to face him somehow. The only bit of him I can cope with is Dr Jekyll and then that will make me weaken and start grieving over the future we could have had.

Don't do it, notsorted. You clearly don't want to, and you very clearly express that you feel too vulnerable to cope with it. You are allowed to feel vulnerable it's more than understandable in your case and you allowed to use a divorce procedure that suits YOU, not HIM.

It is known to be a bad idea to enter mediation with an abuser, as they are master manipulators and know how to push their victims' buttons -- a victim who is often worn down, weakened, and of an overly giving nature anyway. Your post above demonstrates imo why the experts say to avoid mediation with abusers.

What a day. SS man was here for nearly 4.5 hours!!!!!!. 2 of those with me, the rest with stbex.
He said he could see the dc's were healthy and happy but that his concern was their emotional wellbeing considering the situation between stbex and me. I agreed with him.
I had to go into great detail about each child, hobbies, school life, general health, friendships, personality etc.
He didn't seem all that interested in what stbex had done. I told I knew he was abusive and gave him some examples, but I didn't want it to be a slagging off session.
I kept calm, I talked alot. I bemoaned the situation. He spent so long with stbex my heart was in my stomach the whole time. I played with the kids the whole time. Christ only knows what lies he was spouting. I'm scared to death quite frankly.
Stbex is a very good manipulator and a very good liar.
The ss man told me that stbex and I had discussed the phone call I'd had with him yesterday. I told him that no such conversation had taken place, that I in fact hadn't talked to stbex at all about anything. Stbex was concerned about some things he'd said to the police being passed on to me!
I'm beginning to think that he thought that his conversation with the police would stop there. Did he not think that there would be repercussions?
Why on earth would he tell a lie like that? Why? I don't understand.
Stbex was always banging on about what a truth teller he was, he never lied ever. I believed him. I believed him. Christ.
I just don't understand all the subterfuge. I'm such a straight up person.
SS man was concerned that his involvement with us would cause arguments. I told him, no. I was done with arguments. There was no point. I was so tired of it all.
I also told him I had never and would never slag off stbex to the children. That protecting the children and getting them out was my main concern.
H gave me the number for the domestic violence helpline so I guess he believes me and he said I should find out my legal position.
I realise that I have been dragging my heels as far as moving on has been concerned. I think deep down I didn't want to be the person who was removing the children from their home. I didn't want to deal with the 'where's daddy' questions, the emotional fall out.
As much as I hate it here, I was scared of leaving.
Thank you so so much for all your support. What wonderful strong women you are. A big special thanks to a poster here who was kind enough to call me and give me such wonderful advice just before ss man came. I'll PM you, probably tomorrow. My time is at a premium.
I thought I was further along with all this , emotionally, than I am. So now the battle lines are drawn, the gloves are off. I have to shake myself out of this exhausted stupor and get house hunting.
Love to you all xxxxxx

Blimey bigbuttons. Well done you for getting through today and with composure too. I am in awe. Hats off to you, sunflower.

Whew bigbuttons , what a day you've had!

indeed.

Dear BB
I hope you can relax this evening. Can't do the symbols, but there ought to be a bubbly bath and a chocolate one too to have after the wine.
Get some legal advice. Look for family solicitor who is involved in resolution too. And if you get sol first, you can get best/closest/most convenient before him!
Get all the advice now you can, from everywhere. It might be worth giving SW a ring and asking what else is around for you as well as legal stuff too. It emphasises message that you are being proactive in changing things. Knowledge is power. And one important point is that it may not be you and DCs who leave, it could be him who goes.
One hurdle overcome. Keep us posted

bb, you rock love, you really do. Now you see it, now you see the path ahead.

Your DC WILL actually understand. They will feel better, they will see you better and they will heal, faster than you think.

Agree with notsorted, rattle every cage you can, get every bit of information, support, and guidance you can, it'll keep you motivated.

I don't feel like I rock I feel pathetic for letting it get to this, but thanks anyway hissy. However, I feel less pathetic now I have a pixie bob hairdo

Erm, letting it happen?

No love, you tried to hold the tide of this dreadful man, you tried to hold your family together while he literally pulled you apart initially from behind, then the side lines and now right in front of your very eyes.

Read Lundy, now? it'll really, really, really help.

Please open your eyes, the DH you thought you had is no more, you have an enemy in your camp, you need him removed, or you need to leave. It really is no more complex than this.

As for the DC, don't cover for him, you will end up playing into your H's hands and be painted the bad guy. "Daddy is treating Mummy badly, and it's making mummy very sad. i've tried and tried and tried, but there are some things that are absolutely unacceptable, and he did many of them. when you are older, it will be easier to understand. Believe me I did everything I could to prevent this happening, but in the end, it was not me that caused the situation that forced me to change all our lives."

if you do the oh it's just not right between us spiel, HE won't stick to that, he'll stick the knife in over and over and over again, so you get blamed. he's doing it already! Right in front of your very eyes!

So now you know that your H is a stranger, you can be ice cold clinical about removing him and his poison from your family. HE CHOSE THIS PATH, not you. You are acting out of self-preservation and protection of your young DC.

You are not pathetic, you never were and you never will be. You feel humiliated, sure, but that is by him. You will never ever allow him the space to do that again.

You can do this BB, you really can.

"tried to hold the tide"
bloody brilliant Hissy. I may have to steal that.
X had DD for a few hours today, gave me a much needed break. However my suspicions that he only has her to get info about me are now confirmed when she said "Mummy why dont you dont love Daddy anymore" (verbatim)

Thanks a lot you sad prick. DD is three years old and you are already grooming her to be your emotional caretaker. Well not if i have anything to do with it.