At what point should you stop blaming your parents for a shitty upbringing?

[DarlingDuck]

I am curious about this. When does it become a persons own responsibility to take control of their lives or is it understanable for a difficult upbrining to negativly impact on a persons life throughout?

Dione- 'We are all victims of victims'. Heard that said alot in this context. Not sure how much it helps.

I thought it was a very interesting question and not remotely offensive.
I would imagine that it is when you can see that parents are just people with many flaws-they are not necessarily fit to be parents. It is only if you can have some understanding of their situation, e.g. they were too young, they had addictive problems, they had a poor upbringing themselves.
I think there has to be a time when you draw a line under it and say 'I had a bad deal' but the rest of my life is up to me. I will break the circle and not let it hold me back or let the anger damage me.
I'm not sure when that would be, a different time for different people-quite possibly when you have your own DCs.
I am just guessing as I was lucky with my upbinging.

I was brought in the care of the Catholic Church, and I and thousands of others suffered across the board abuse by both priests and nuns over the 15 year period I spent in their care.
I am 63. I have not forgotten it and I never will. I do blame them and always will till the day I die. It isn't behind me because it's who I am. My parents abandoned me and I will never forgive them either. The nuns and priests were supposed to take the place of my parents. I certainly don't think it was my fault at all, but that makes no difference.
What it has done for me has been invaluable. I don't let people push me around. I never let anyone push my 7 kids around.
But I dream about my 'shitty upbringing' most nights.

Thanks Mittzy.

My mother maintains everything she did she did for me but I honestly can't think of anything she did that involved putting me first or was for my benefit. I have no contact with her and haven't seen her for nearly 20 years. I haven't lived with her since I was in nappies yet she thinks she has a right to "her grandchildren" and it is all about how bad I have been.

I think that is a bit different Marjoiew-there is nothing to understand-they were Christians and entrusted with your upbringing. I have been moved to tears by women in their 60s outlining their abuse by nuns as 5yr olds-I would imagine that it is impossible to forgive.

My mother is in her 60s and still blames her mother for her crappy upbringing. Unfortunately she was also a fairly crap mother. It was her and my father's choice to have more children than they could cope with therefor putting her in a situation in which she was also a crappy parent.

I know she blames how she was raised but my sister and I have had a bad childhood and learned from it and would never treat our children like we were treated.

Sometimes it bothers me, sometimes it doesn't but there are times when it hits you out of the blue and all the negative feelings come back. Like recently I was treated like absolute garbage by a dentist due to the bad state of my teeth. I didn't feel like explaining that I grew up in a family where we were fed sugary tea from toddlerhood, never had enough toothbrushes to go round and were only taken to the dentist when crying in pain. I had lost a lot of my adult teeth by the time I was a teenager.

Do I blame my shitty upbringing? Yes, for lots of things but it hasn't stopped me getting a degree, working hard, meeting my lovely DH and having my beautiful (happy, healthy and cared for) dcs.

Coming at this from outside, so please forgive, but I'm wondering if some of the disagreement on this thread isn't because different posters have different definitions of the word blame.

This is something I've had to learn when trying to get my head round the concept forgive (in a different context, but something pretty big): I nearly drove myself bonkers because I thought "forgive" meant trying to pretend that no harm had been done and that I was fine. I wasn't fine, so this one didn't work. And then I felt guilty. Until finally someone made it clear that I didn't have to do this complete rewriting of reality to handle a hurtful situation. It was perfectly acceptable to say "yes this did hurt me, my life never will be the same".

What I was not allowed to do was to use it as an excuse to hurt other people.

So going by that, I would have thought that blaming your parents in the sense of acknowledging that they did lasting harm is not only acceptable, but probably necessary. If you spend your life lying to yourself, it's going to spill out in all sorts of other harmful ways.

However, most people would probably not be prepared to shrug off damage done to them by their parents, just because the parents themselves had a shitty childhood. They would at least have wanted to feel that the parents did everything they possibly could to minimise any behaviour resulting from that. So if "blame" is used to excuse harm one does to other people because one has been damaged, then that is a more tricky area.

The argument abusers often use to justify their actions is that they were abused themselves so they know no different. However the way you deal with abuse varies from person to person. Some people are abused and grow up to be fabulous people with more empathy towards others and with a determination never to let the past get in the way of their future. Some can never let go and they take out their anger on others. Other people will repeat that behaviour so they in turn become abusers.

I think that maturity comes when you learn to stop blaming the past for your own actions. Just as there are abusers who had lovely childhoods, I don't think we can look too deeply into our past to find answers for who we are now. At some point we consciously make decisions that affect those around us and I'm not sure whether we can say that we are so out of control of our own behaviour that we can blame our actions entirely on our past.

An abusive childhood stays with you for life and may be responsible for forming some of your characteristics, however that abuse doesn't affect your ability to make conscious decisions. We still have to take responsibility for that area of our lives.

Therefore you can decide to stay angry all your life or you can decide to seek help in changing the way you think. That remains a decision and unfortunately some people will choose to stay negative whilst others choose a different path.

Oh, I've made mistakes in my life - some huge ones actually, but I don't blame my upbringing for those mistakes, any more than I expect my children or grandchildren to blame me or their parents.
I'm sure that my upbringing has coloured my parenting methods, but ultimately I take responsibility.

One person's "blaming the parents" can be another person's "healthy action to try to put the past behind me".

For example, in my case, I am not in contact with my parents or older siblings. I stay away because contact with them has always been one sided (me chasing after them, listening to them, supporting them) and I get angry and hurt and exasperated by them whenever I have any dealings with them. This I coped with adequately until I had children. I then realised that the effect they had on me was impacting on my dealing with my children. All the rage and anger I used to channel into work or exercise or boozing I was channelling into my own mothering. So for my own sake and the sake of my DH and DC, I cut contact. I am moving on and trying to make a healthier life for my little family. Until such time as seeing my parents and siblings does not effect me so violently, I think it's best to stay away. That's my side of the fence.

On the other side of the fence sit my parents and siblings. From their point of view, I am punishing them for things I should have gotten over. I am, in fact, not getting over my childhood, because, for them, I am cutting them out simply to hurt them. If I try to talk about why I feel so angry, they just retaliate with all the excuses others have discussed above. Their own shitty childhoods, the financial pressures (brought upon themselves), yadda yadda yadda. Things I had absolutely no control over as a child, and have no control over now, but for which they are, in effect, expecting me to take the blame, by absolving them of any.

What I don't want to do is take out my myriad of issues, which all stem from childhood, on innocents, in particular, DH and my DC. For me, "getting over it" is breaking the cycle and not treating them as I was treated. Personally, though, I will never just "get over it", their treatment made me who I am and, for me, the past can't be undone, just understood, processed and (hopefully one day) forgotten.

Sometimes the 'other path' is closed off, or practically untreadable because of the upbringing, though. It's not as straightforwardly easy as saying 'take responsibility for yourself'. And sometimnes, abuse does affect your ability to make concious decisions, it constricts what options are available to you (as clearly shown in the cases of Fabby, tallulah and garlic butter, among others, imo).
Describing this experience as 'choosing to stay negative' is a harsh condemnation of the suffering caused I think, and offering 'personal responsibility' as the best answer a covert way of saying 'you're on your own'.

I think it's a symptom of the general lack of compassion for circumstances, (like characterizations of the 'feckless lazy poor') that people can't see that sometimes you are trapped, by things that you even 'don't know that you don't know' (like the tenderness example upthread). I wish i knew the answer. Family therapy? Nurture groups for grown-ups? More friends and much more compassion and understanding? More extended family involvment in child rearing (to dilute toxic effects)?

sellcrazy, funny you should say that. I too have closed off contact with my mother and some of my siblings because it was a destructive relationship. If the abuse was in the past in some respects it makes it easier to get over, but whilst they are still abusive people, you are just leaving yourself open to their abuse and so you can never close the door on that part of your life.

dh thinks I am punishing my mother and siblings but not getting in touch, but what I have told him is that my recovery can only happen away from such abusive people. They all know where I am if they need me, but the fact that they have chosen not to get in touch speaks volumes.

In order to start afresh you need to put the past behind you, you cannot do that if your family are still free to victimise you. It's not about punishing them, it's about accepting what happened and moving on. You don't need them and no longer feel a part of them, your life has grown away in a different direction and just as you wouldn't keep a friendship going if you had nothing in common, you are not obliged to stay loyal to people who have shown you no loyalty in the past.

Is forgiveness possible only when you understand the reasons for the damaging actions? I was blessed in my childhood really but there were certain maternal behaviours that had an impact on me right into adulthood. I learnt crippling anxiety, shyness, fear of the future, mistrust of other people. She used to make me irrationally cross with her at times when I went out into the world and had to deal with it carrying the burdens she bequeathed me. Then I began to tease out the sheer sadness and neglect of her childhood and I can see that it was a bloody miracle that she was as sane as she was. Forgave her then almost before I realised there was anything to forgive iyswim.

I understand why my parents are they way they are, they both had shitty childhoods one way or another themselves...but understanding for me means nothing in the forgiveness stakes when they still abuse you.

The only way for me to move on imo is to remain no contact and put all the energy it would require 'managing' my parental interactions into my own life and chosen family.

Tbh I find it hard to understand how anyone can forgive someone when the same old abuse continues...if there is no sorry, or adaptation of behaviour happening how can you forgive?

I agree with Rhubarb0 my no contact is all to do with looking after me and nothing to do with punishing them...if it was about punishing my parents then imo that would make me no better than them.

I think understanding plays a large part in forgiveness but also there needs to be closure. I have tried many times to understand why my mother is like she is, she was a middle child - my uncle and aunt don't appear to have any issues - my grandparents were lovely but she appeared to need to be needed and felt overshadowed by her siblings so everything she did was a statement of "look at me!" from adopting my black brothers, to fostering kids, attending church every day, it was all a cry for attention. Her temper was possibly down to hormones. But I cannot forgive her because she is still a destructive, self-obsessed person who manipulates people and though she can say she loves us, her actions say otherwise. It's hard to forgive that and I don't think forgiveness will be possible until she is dead, or at least says sorry for what she has done, which she never has and never will. I am to blame for everything that has happened apparently. How do you forgive that?

I think that so much depends on other factors in your upbringing.

I dislike the 'well I know someone who had a crap childhood and SHE is fine so people shouldnt use it as an excuse' line. This is usually trotted out when child has committed a crime or similar.

You could have two people with equally awful parents and their lives look the same on the surface but one goes one way and one the other.

But we dont know if the one who 'made it' had an interested teacher or an involved auntie or even a neighbour who told them every so often how pretty they were.

How people deal with past trauma is so complex. No one should feel inferior because they dont deal with it as well as the next.

I have a child who has been injured by early neglect so I do know how far reaching the affect of even a short period of trauma is. I also know many adult surviviours of terrible childhoods and they all deal with them differently.

How much they can move on is not fixed but reliant on how they are feeling and what is going on in their lives.

You can be find and dandy and then you have your first child and WHAMMO its like being 3 again and scared because your dad is pissed and your mum is screaming at you.

True MrsDeVere but then as an adult you are consciously making decisions that affect others. You are aware as an adult that the things which happened to you were wrong, so you know that if you repeat them you are also doing wrong. There has to be a point where you take responsibility for the actions you do and not blame them on your childhood.

You cannot free a child abuser because they were abused and so didn't know any different. In this society I doubt it is possible to not know that abuse is wrong so people have to be held for account.

That's not to say that they don't have different issues to deal with however and parenting can certainly throw up a lot of memories that you thought you had hidden away. But you are the responsible adult and need to ensure that your experiences as a child do not go on to affect another generation. It's up to you to take action.

But we dont know if the one who 'made it' had an interested teacher or an involved auntie or even a neighbour who told them every so often how pretty they were.

Absolutely, MrsDeVere. I'm reading Oliver James' "They Fuck You Up" and he makes this point, that a counterbalancing influence than is in place concurrent with the negative parental influence can help swing the child back to a positive self image.

I think I "made it" despite my childhood because of some great teachers. The transaction with them was so simple. They give you a task, you just need to do it. I do it, do it really well, get lots of praise/reward and they like me for being a good pupil and I like them for their encouragement and interest. There's no moved goal posts, no agenda, no suggestion that I am flawed or bad if I don't get something completely right; no suggestion I'm crap anyway even when I get something completely right.

I am not going to disagree with any of that rhubarb. As adults we have to take responsiblity for our actions. I think a big part of being able to do that is to understand why we do the things we do.
A hard background should never be an excuse for wrong doing or hurting others.
Understanding the affects of trauma and abuse on behaviour is (imo) vital. I admire those who work with paedophiles etc. Someone has to do it. It doesnt mean they are condoning their behaviour becasue they are trying to understand it.

Whatever the tabloids think

I did criminology too and it angered me that the victim card was wheeled out to gain sympathy from the judge and sometimes it even worked!

I was not surprised to discover that most killers, sex attackers and abusers had come from difficult childhoods and had progressed from torturing animals to people. You do feel a great amount of sympathy for the child they once were, but you cannot let it cloud the fact that the person is now an adult and has conciously made those choices to hurt others.

It helps to understand why, it helps you to come to some kind of closure if you understand the reasons behind the abuse. And understanding those reasons are so important if we, as a society, are to try to prevent such abuses in the future. If are to provide the counterbalance that might just save them.

sellcrazy that is very interesting and helps to reinforce my belief that ALL adults have a part to play in helping children.

I think most of us can remember a grown up who took an interest or said something nice to us. The memory stays with you for years and years. Often it is a teacher.

Even the shortest connection with a child can make a difference. Imagine (some wont have to imagine) growing up in a house where no one ever says anything positive to you and you meet someone who tells you what a clever girl/kind boy/pretty girl etc.
Ok it wont save your life but it might just give you something to hold on to.

Thats what I think anyway.

I don't think it is helpful telling fabby that the op title wasn't offensive.

I didn't find it so, but she does & that is her opinion. She is allowed that.

I blamed my mother for my life for a long time. Just recently my father too. I wasn't wanted, 'mum wanted to terminate, dad wouldn't let her. She never bonded. She couldn't love me at all. Then dad left, when I was 5. I spent my life in a cloud of emotional abuse.

BUT I choose to turn that around. Yes, they are to blame, and yes I have some issues, but how much do I let that dominate my life? I won't allow my mum the room in my head any more. Yes, my childhood was shitty & I had no control over that. But I have control over my adult life now, and she isn't making that shitty too. She isn't welcome in my life for that reason.

I agree that:

Blame is helpful if it means "I have these problems because of them, now I've got to find a way to deal with said problems."
Blame is damaging if it means you excuse your own bad behaviours.

Denial is more likely to spawn another abusive cycle than recognition. Neither of my parents, nor my siblings who have children, have admitted the extent of abuse they suffered. Without admitting it (or 'blaming'), they cannot try to repair it. I can't criticise my sibs' choice to ignore the bad things in their past, but I would say my nieces & nephews are already screwed up by it.

One concerned adult can mitigate the damage done to a child - this has been proven. I was lucky to have a grandmother and a couple of teachers who saw what was happening, and tried to fill in some gaps. I'm grateful every day to them and to my grammar school. Without them I'd have been a much worse mess. Some children have no-one.

There's no single answer; one person's effective therapy might drive another over the edge.
Fabby is entitled to respect for her feelings. If she felt hurt or offended, then she did. Feelings can't be 'wrong'.

I don't think "just get over it" but I do think that adults should be able to rationalise, consider and put things to rest, taking control for their own actions as they mature through life.
Or, continue to blame their parents for everything and run the risk of sounding like an immature tit with no control.