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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I've gone but I'm going to need your help detaching and staying away

277 replies

BeforeAndAfter · 04/07/2011 23:31

Sorry this is so long - I have lurked on the threads of Solost and WisedUpWoman (and others), in total admiration at the honesty, courage and determination laid out there not to mention the incredible advice (and wicked humour) provided by the MN crew. I know that I will really need the support of you lovely ladies over the coming weeks.

Like many of you my life can be divided into two acts: Before Discovery (BD) and After Discovery (AD). Life immediately BD wasn?t quite normal but wasn?t too far off. After 15 years together, the last six of which have been married, I thought we were just going through one of those distant, stressed phases, where a passionate love life was a distant memory due to DH?s redundancy, my exams, life etc. I now know otherwise and with that knowledge all of those little niggling signs that were there all fall into place and become obvious ? duh ? . How could I have missed the signs?

I am by no means daft but I had not put 2 and 2 together and reached 4, I was at about 3.25. I had figured out who OW was going to be but I truly thought it was budding as opposed to being in full bloom. My strategy BD had been to invite her to dinner and head off her attack by making me into a real live human being with feelings (I have never met her) but it turns out that I was way way too late. Discovery took place on 16 March with a bit more detail on 17 March. The affair has been going on since July 2010. YES, that long. In his words it started as the odd shag but since this year has developed into far more where he realised that come what may, all three players would be hurt (ah, such thoughtfulness).

At this point I feel I need to give some more detail about our lifestyle to give more context. We are fortunate enough to have a house in the country and a crash pad in the city, which was used by us both as relief from the commute. Then in August last year we bought our dream home (quasi retirement) somewhere warm, with a view to me giving up work in 2012, when DH?s pension would kick in. I work full-time (I?m 14 years younger than DH), we have no kids but he has two DDs who are now my beloved DSDs, both of whom are at uni.

Following DH?s redundancy in 2008 he found a part-time job and took up a hobby and the hobby is how he met OW. Towards the end of last year I noticed I could do little right and with his increasing enthusiasm for his hobby and his increasing criticism of me I found myself spending more time on my own at the crash pad rather than with DH at the house. Lesson number 1, never leave a man alone, they need constant attention. OW obviously couldn?t believe her luck and she reeled him in big time.

In February I approached DH to say that I felt we had drifted apart and needed to fix things at which point he agreed and, with indecent haste, volunteered that we spend time apart (about six weeks) with no communications so that he ?could think?. I was dumbfounded as being on his own is totally out of character for him (he is a selfish needy person, so a typical man then). He suggested he would go to the dream home for some space to allow his feelings for me to return and strengthen (ho ho). Anyway, I was still scratching my head, trying to figure out who this man was and trying to figure out why he had built a brick wall and wouldn?t let me in. He came back from the dream home and met me as arranged and agreed that we were best friends etc and that we should try and restart our relationship. At that point he was still not himself. A couple of hours later he broke down and dropped the bombshell about OW and the fact it had been going on since July 2010. I asked if he?d taken OW to dream home and he said ?absolutely not? and then I asked if he?d stayed overnight at her place when I was at crash pad and he said ?no?. I also asked the inevitable question about safe sex and was assured they always used protection. The next day I rang a close friend of mine who is a philandering male (please don?t judge me on my friends?) and he told me DH was definitely lying about using protection.

That day I went back to the house, not having been there for some time, in a symbolic ?moving back in with DH? gesture. We had agreed that he would finish with OW that night and be back by a certain time. Two hours after that deadline was up I assumed he was not coming back so I decided to find out the true extent of their relationship. I went into his Skype account (note ladies this IS a criminal act) and there was a whole written conversation between them which talked about him sleeping next to her, their passionate mornings (I?m sparing the graphic detail) and the fact that she couldn?t wait to fly out to see him. What I don?t understand is how another woman (excellent job, educated at top uni, so not dim) could go into my home to steal my DH. Forget the morals about affairs, I just would not go into someone else?s home and abuse it ? it feels like I have been burgled let alone having my husband stolen. BTW philandering male friend told me that men don?t think the same as women about bricks and mortar which oddly enough did help me. Back to Skype, with one password I found out the extent of his lying ? he had stayed overnight with her at her house and he had taken her to my dream home. Anyway, he eventually came home having dumped her and when I showed him what I?d found he confessed. He then told me he could never trust me again (yes, HE could never trust ME again) and changed all his passwords.

So, fast forward over a couple of traumatic months where he finished with her, I finished with him, we pinged back together, they pinged back together etc. Note: at no stage did he finish with me. The main reason for his flipping back and forth was that he refused to give up the hobby so OW was always there, reeling him in. He then properly finished with OW and, at my insistence, gave up the hobby. The only problem is he was thoroughly depressed, clearly grieving the OW and totally self-absorbed ? like a sulking child.

During the last reconciliation it was clear he was still communicating with her and when I was packing my belongings to leave he had an outburst and implored me to stay, confessing that they had been texting and phoning but not e-mailing or seeing each other. I agreed to stay one last time but his behaviour has gone back to being odd so I expect she?s back on the scene. I turned Poirot and found that there had previously been more than texting but the killer for me is that it is clear he really really loves her and is staying with me for financial reasons. Sadly his behaviour supports this so I cannot rationalise that the words were ?just for her?. Also during this period my mental health spiralled downwards and I ended up on anti-depressants, all the time pleading with him to stop the lying and tell me truth, and he just looked me in the eye and lied and lied.

Oh and one final thing on my scenario I have endured the agony of a visit to ?the clinic? and been checked out completely and he has now admitted that they did not use protection as the affair intensified. Additionally, from the start of their affair I have had thrush on and off and felt that I wasn?t ?quite right? down there so again, all of that fell into place once I knew.

I am lucky in that my work colleagues have been AMAZING and carried me through this hell but family only know we?re having problems. I know that even though I am strong tonight over the next day or so I will want to hear him, touch him, smell him and feel his arms around me (although lately hugs were only there when I asked, wtf ?) that's where I hope you MNs will be around to keep me focussed and strong. He's a liar and a cheat and I am too good for him (my current mantra).

Thank you for reading this far.

OP posts:
dahlia4 · 17/09/2011 15:10

I know we can't always control our emotions, but really what is the point in pining over someone who, if he did have his arms around you, would not be interested in you any more. What's he going to give you back in return? Nothing. And I have, in the past, had to stop myself ringing my ex alot. I rang him once, in the early days, and it was pointless.

BeforeAndAfter · 17/09/2011 15:26

PTM is too busy to see DD for a few weeks

WTF Wisey??? Angry. Too busy doing what, pray? What is more important than helping his DD???? I am offended, infuriated and just want to kill the bastard on your and DD's behalf.

Sounds like you nearly came a cropper there Wisey on the "never show them a chink in the armour" rule. I didn't even think about what I'd done by sending that e-mail until Dozer mentioned it. Oh well, if that's the worst I do then sobeit.

Today I've had a duvet day. The first since 4 July. (Sad, how these dates just spring straight to mind, isn't it?). I was supposed to go off to do an architecture tour today but I just fancied staying in bed and feeling sorry for myself. So I did just that.

I am still much perturbed by Bicep Man. Not him per se, but the nature of the encounter and I am analysing the arse out of it all. You have to live to learn and I am learning more about myself. I am learning that I can't do "ships that pass in the night" encounters. It doesn't suit my make-up. I am learning that I am a relationship builder, that I need to know someone and that I need them to know me. I have never needed anyone to like me but I do need them to make an informed decision about me.

What I can't get my head around is that Bicep Man probably thinks I always pick up blokes like that. Nothing could be further from the truth and I hate that he is left with the totally wrong impression of me. It shouldn't matter, but it does. And that's part of the lesson that I'm learning about me. This is stuff I can't learn about in the abstract by theory-based reading or counselling because the human reactions and emotions that kick into play are unpredictable. As much as I know the theory, I have to learn this for real which means I have to deal with the fall-out. What matters is understanding the fall-out which is where you guys really help me, so thank you. xx

OP posts:
BeforeAndAfter · 17/09/2011 15:40

Dahlia you are so very right. It is all pointless. Pining is pointless, what H did to throw away all that we had is pointless and me having a duvet day is pointless. 90% of the time I will fight and I will move forward and move away from H but for now I need to process all the crap in my head. I need to defrag my brain! Once I've done that I will get up and fight once more.

OP posts:
BeforeAndAfter · 17/09/2011 16:08

Oh dear, B&A's in full introspection mode.

Newton came up with three laws of motion to describe relationships between forces. Here?s my take on that in terms of forces on relationships:

Newton?s first law: The velocity of a body remains constant unless the body is acted by an external force;

B&A?s first law: The velocity of a relationship?s breakup increases when acted on by an external force coupled with the force of some form(s) of neglect from both partners within the relationship;

Newton?s second law: The acceleration of a body is parallel and directly proportional to the net force and inversely proportional to the mass;

B&A?s second law: The acceleration of a relationship?s breakup is parallel and directly proportional to the time spent with OW and inversely proportional to the time spent with W;

Newton?s third law: The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear;

The mutual forces of action and reaction between H and W during a breakup are equal and opposite.

OP posts:
Wisedupwoman · 17/09/2011 20:31

Impressive B&A.

Here's my take - he shat on you because he's a shit, and because shit sticks to shit he's stuck with OW. may they be forced to inhale each other's odour for a long time after the shine has worn off.

You meanwhile are like a magnificent about-to-flower blossom. Forget Bicep Man, who cares what he thinks about you, it's what you think about you that counts. People do mad things in grief, in some cultures it's pretty much anything goes for 2 years following bereavement, it's expected actually.

As for PTM being too busy, that's because he's useless and that's why I didn't email him in the end - I no longer care if he thinks I need him for anything because I know different and I didn't need him in the end - DD and me are fine without him bestowing us with his fabulous fathering skills. You'll get there too, and it's bloody marvellous. Grin

TheOriginalFAB · 17/09/2011 20:48

B&A You know yourself really well so you don't need other people -especially those that are not important - to know you unless you choose for them too.

Dozer · 17/09/2011 21:11

Duvet day (or weekend) is good. September is a good time to have a think and make resolutions. Hang in there.

Doesn't matter what bicep man thinks. Or any other person - other than maybe the dsds - than you.

Wisey, PTM's loss, but like B&A am Angry on behalf of dd.

Drfayray, yes, shoulder pads it is! Envy your sunnier climates, bloody miserable in the UK today, rain and cold, autumn is here, brrr. Duvet time.

BeforeAndAfter · 17/09/2011 21:23

Thanks guys. It really isn't about what Bicep Man thinks of me in itself but the fact that he's been a catalyst for a whole load of unexpected emotional consequences.

I am very opinionated in RL. I have strong opinions on politics, education, work ethic etc but when it comes to sex I thought I was liberal and an anything goes kind of person. But I'm not when it comes to me. I thought I could hack it when I can't. That's a surprise to me. I didn't expect this turmoil and it will influence my behaviour going forward.

In the meantime I've sorted out a problem with re-tuning the digital box thingy which found me googling digital TV info and all sorts to identify the solution (because IME the solution is never in the troubleshooting guide) and rewarded myself with eating two family packs of chocolates. Heaven.

Tomorrow I shall go to Pilates at 11 and dancing at 3. The old booty needs to be shaken to get rid of today's chocolate.

So Wisey, you're telling me that in the name of grief I could be outrageous for two whole years and no-one will judge me? Grin

So, how do I stop judging myself?

OP posts:
Wisedupwoman · 17/09/2011 21:57

I think you're still judging yourself by the marriage you are only just coming out of because you're not over it yet.

In 6 months time I think you'll look back on this and wonder what you were so preoccupied about. However, if you know that you're not the kind of person who does casual sex without carrying alot of unwanted self doubt maybe it's worth thinking about that and why it's so.

And yes, you can be as outrageous as you like - throw the rule book out!

As for PTM - if someone had told me he'd walk away from his own DD even a few months ago I'd have defended him. But not now because he has, as have his parents who still have not contacted her at all. Sad for her at such appalling disregard for a child from a family who are supposed to be so good hearted.
So B&A you need not turn yourself inside out about the turmoil you get into, this sounds like you turning on yourself for not being able to switch off your feelings for the sake of a quick shag. But that's something you can be proud of IMO, it shows you're not utterly cynical despite the crap that stbx has thrown at you.
Duvet days are good. I may have one myself tomorrow.

dahlia4 · 17/09/2011 22:14

BandA. Duvet days are good. To me, they're like - crap overload, need downtime, tired, world go away for a while, comfort day, need to recharge, then better tomorrow.

drfayray · 18/09/2011 09:11

Hi dear B&A. You sound like you have had a very thoughtful few days. Duvet days are good...so is eating choc. Calming for the soul.

And you know what...what has happened to you (and me, cos I have had a shit weekend and will post on my thread) is a horrible horrible soul destroying thing. How is it possible to just recover instantly? Two months, five months, a year? I think it depends on the individual. Everything is different. Everything.

I feel very unloved atm. But I know this is not true but fucking ABCKF has made me feel this way.

I will post more later but the oven is beeping and DD is starving.

XXXX B&A
XXXXX

nopanicandverylittleanxiety · 18/09/2011 22:24

Hi B&A. I think you are doing really well.
Don't beat yourself up about bicep man. I've done since i split with stbxh (last July) that I beat myself up about. I even now think I may have been the OW with one bloke on and off for 6 months (although he still denies that he isn't single; contrary to evidence).
I'm just not a casual sex person. As pathetic as it is I prefer to worry/stress about that than even think about the overwhelming rejection/nastiness from stbxh.

wiseoldowl · 19/09/2011 19:24

Dear B&A, you are so profound and strong that it is so sad when I see you having a downer.

Don't beat yourself up over bicep man. You are going out into the big wide world again and I'm sure it is very daunting and there are mistakes to be made (in the same way as they were made before you married I'm sure). Take each one as it comes (oo er missus). Don't over think things, be true to yourself and experiment if it is what feels right for you. You are a strong,independent woman who knows what she wants and those men had better watch out because B&A could eat them for breakfast.

BeforeAndAfter · 19/09/2011 20:46

Thank you one and all. I appreciate all of your support. That was a bit of wobble there but I'm picking myself back up. Yesterday I went back to my diary - Pilates in the morning with dancing in the afternoon. Sadly all of the blokes were a bit limp-wristed when in dance hold! Ooh, I don't like a limp-wristed lead on the dance floor (or anywhere else come to think of it ...)! Think I need to go back to salsa for some macho latin dance action.

Tonight was Bikram and then I am at a conference tomorrow so that'll be a bit of a yawny day. I always start off with loads of enthusiasm and then it all gets a bit tedious and tiring by the afternoon! I need to go and check my power suit (a la Dozer) is in good nick.

Profundity (is that a word? If not it should be ...) is over. Back to shallow shallow shallow. :)

Thanks for your support. It makes all the difference, it really does.

xx

OP posts:
Wisedupwoman · 21/09/2011 20:22

I'm shallow today!!!!

i went to the Fenwicks 20% off fashion evening. Bought a pair of Hudson skinnies to flaunt my tushy in on Friday night when i'm out on the razz. Now I'm celebrating my new found ability to bash the credit card with a cheeky red.

Shallow is good. We all need shallow once in a while. Will PM you shortly B&A.

BeforeAndAfter · 24/09/2011 15:51

I love Fenwicks... I have been very shallow. How shallow? Read on ...

OK. So it?s confession time ladies (and gents, if you?re reading this). That wee devil in me popped up her little old head after my moping around the other week and weekend; I?ve called my devil Libby, as she is consistently inspired by my libi-do Grin.

So Libby popped up and whispered in my ear and I was torn. I don?t want a repeat of the Bicep Man aftermath but I do want a repeat of the, erm, sex ... so I started cruising around some dodgy websites, actually inspired by a posting I saw on MN referring to NSA (yeah, I had to google it too).

The way I figure it there has to be a man out there with the same wants and non-wants as me. I don?t want a relationship. I don?t want to shag lots of different people. I don?t want to have to head out to a bar if I?m feeling ?up for it?. I do want regular, good sex with the same person who I fancy like mad but I don?t want to meet his family and I don?t want to introduce him to my friends. I guess that means I want simple and maybe I just want it to be all about me - that only just occurred to me as I typed this.

So I created a profile (strictly NO photos) and off I went and found myself a site and logged on. Well ... what can I say... without google I wouldn?t have understood half of what was referred to. Anyway, there were plenty of creeps on there, all with vile names, you know the sort, featuring 69 in their name or some superlative to describe their assets. I was window-shopping for men (brutally honest, but true ...) between 45-55 - hah - what a bunch of liars are out there. So many of the 55 year olds looked 65 AT LEAST. So I lowered the age I was searching for to 35-45 to try and get my real target age.

And then I saw a profile. The ?chat-up? line was perfect for me. It asked a question about the English language which I thought was very clever and I NEVER expected to want to contact anyone but the psychology of someone who would pose that question on a site like that got me. There was no lurid photo, no stupid list of acts that he wanted done / wanted to do and so I thought: ?hell, I?m totally undiscoverable here. I?ll say hi.? So I did. He replied and we chatted in computer-land and he had all his apostrophes where they should be! No lurid stupid porno chat either; just a normal, getting-to-know-you conversation that was typed rather than spoken.

Then the crazy bit. We revealed ourselves, so to speak, and we met up ... in a bar ... in Central London. That was the most terrifying thing I?ve ever done. I did wonder if he really was going to be what he said and what I was expecting. He seems to be so much more. He?s lush. Separated. Has a good job. Educated. Articulate. Doesn?t want a relationship. Wants one partner. And I believe him.

We really hit it off and I think we shall be seeing a lot more of each other going forward IYSWIM. Wink. It will strictly be on a casual basis but it suits both of us. Let?s call him Media Man.

I ummed and arred about telling you but this is all about how each of us gets up, dusts ourselves off and moves forward away from the past and towards the future. If I didn?t tell you about this bit you wouldn?t be getting the full picture and I don?t think that?s fair. So time will tell if this arrangement works and if I can cope but I AM having an adventure or two in this new life of mine which I'm loving. I already know so much more about myself than I did six months ago. So Libby?s happy, B&A?s feeling a bit smug to be honest and Media Man?s smiling too.

xx

OP posts:
wellthatsdoneit · 24/09/2011 18:30

Ooh you devil you! Go for it sister. Wish I lived in ThatLondon as between your new social circle and the snagging opportunities it's far preferable to the armpit of the north east that I'm in.

wellthatsdoneit · 24/09/2011 18:31

Snagging/shagging - s'all the same really innit.

barkwithnobite · 24/09/2011 19:31

Love it....whatever puts a smile on ur face.....just make sure u protect ur heart as these encounters can end abruptly...

Wisedupwoman · 24/09/2011 19:50

Ooooohhh!!!! I like the sound of that Grin.

I shall grill you about this B&A.

I still have unopened packet of 12 (as I'm greedy and have high hopes) but will be opening it tomorrow for visit to the big city (just in case LBM..well... you know....).

Go for it. Why not? Just be safe is all.

BeforeAndAfter · 01/10/2011 16:22

So this lark with Media Man seems to be working out quite well.

I have to say it's rather nice to know what the plans are. No second guessing on either side as to what and where the boundaries are etc.

Basically we met, there was instant mutual attraction (how flaming lucky was that?), similar education levels etc. After a couple of glasses of bubbly, we both agreed that food was superfluous and he ended up staying over.

Let's just say we've seen each other since then but no old-fashioned dating stuff. For now what we have is exactly what I want and as awful as this sounds, this time in my life right now is all about me. The DSDs run a close second but they are living their own lives too.

This morning I received a card from H's sister. It was her son's wedding a few weeks ago and I bowed out gracefully from that (I did not want the bride or groom worrying about H and me and potential bad behaviour on their special day). I didn't cry when I read the card but it felt very poignant and she said some lovely things.

Interestingly she had tried several times to write an e-mail to me but couldn't find the words so she was glad I had initiated the contact. So if any of you are wondering why you haven't heard from in-laws that you were close to, maybe they just can't find the words. Take a deep breath and be the first to put pen to paper. Avoid any bitterness about H, in fact, don't mention H. Make your first contact all about your relationship with the in-law. You may receive a lovely surprise in return, like I did.

OP posts:
Wisedupwoman · 01/10/2011 16:45

Hi B&A.

Glad to hear Media Man is living up to expectations.

I dumped LBM today. Relieved. Grin

wellthatsdoneit · 01/10/2011 19:51

Glad you are having some fun b&a - you're smile to frown ratio is sounding pretty good!

Onwards and upwards to everyone.

wellthatsdoneit · 01/10/2011 19:52

your, of course.

Dozer · 01/10/2011 22:20

b&a, what you're doing is just so damn....can't quite get the right words.... efficient and bold. And matter of fact and modern.

Just make sure you're being safe, 'cos you don't know who else he's seeing!

That's nice about the in-laws.

I like the clothes around at the mo, just got loads of new work things (only the one power suit, one of the things have learned from here is that it's ok to be yourself, and power suits feel like disguise somehow, so also got lots smart but colourful separates).

Wisey, lbm sounded like a bit of a liability, bit limp-wristed in b&a's words!