I've gone but I'm going to need your help detaching and staying away

[BeforeAndAfter]

Sorry this is so long - I have lurked on the threads of Solost and WisedUpWoman (and others), in total admiration at the honesty, courage and determination laid out there not to mention the incredible advice (and wicked humour) provided by the MN crew. I know that I will really need the support of you lovely ladies over the coming weeks.

Like many of you my life can be divided into two acts: Before Discovery (BD) and After Discovery (AD). Life immediately BD wasn?t quite normal but wasn?t too far off. After 15 years together, the last six of which have been married, I thought we were just going through one of those distant, stressed phases, where a passionate love life was a distant memory due to DH?s redundancy, my exams, life etc. I now know otherwise and with that knowledge all of those little niggling signs that were there all fall into place and become obvious ? duh ? . How could I have missed the signs?

I am by no means daft but I had not put 2 and 2 together and reached 4, I was at about 3.25. I had figured out who OW was going to be but I truly thought it was budding as opposed to being in full bloom. My strategy BD had been to invite her to dinner and head off her attack by making me into a real live human being with feelings (I have never met her) but it turns out that I was way way too late. Discovery took place on 16 March with a bit more detail on 17 March. The affair has been going on since July 2010. YES, that long. In his words it started as the odd shag but since this year has developed into far more where he realised that come what may, all three players would be hurt (ah, such thoughtfulness).

At this point I feel I need to give some more detail about our lifestyle to give more context. We are fortunate enough to have a house in the country and a crash pad in the city, which was used by us both as relief from the commute. Then in August last year we bought our dream home (quasi retirement) somewhere warm, with a view to me giving up work in 2012, when DH?s pension would kick in. I work full-time (I?m 14 years younger than DH), we have no kids but he has two DDs who are now my beloved DSDs, both of whom are at uni.

Following DH?s redundancy in 2008 he found a part-time job and took up a hobby and the hobby is how he met OW. Towards the end of last year I noticed I could do little right and with his increasing enthusiasm for his hobby and his increasing criticism of me I found myself spending more time on my own at the crash pad rather than with DH at the house. Lesson number 1, never leave a man alone, they need constant attention. OW obviously couldn?t believe her luck and she reeled him in big time.

In February I approached DH to say that I felt we had drifted apart and needed to fix things at which point he agreed and, with indecent haste, volunteered that we spend time apart (about six weeks) with no communications so that he ?could think?. I was dumbfounded as being on his own is totally out of character for him (he is a selfish needy person, so a typical man then). He suggested he would go to the dream home for some space to allow his feelings for me to return and strengthen (ho ho). Anyway, I was still scratching my head, trying to figure out who this man was and trying to figure out why he had built a brick wall and wouldn?t let me in. He came back from the dream home and met me as arranged and agreed that we were best friends etc and that we should try and restart our relationship. At that point he was still not himself. A couple of hours later he broke down and dropped the bombshell about OW and the fact it had been going on since July 2010. I asked if he?d taken OW to dream home and he said ?absolutely not? and then I asked if he?d stayed overnight at her place when I was at crash pad and he said ?no?. I also asked the inevitable question about safe sex and was assured they always used protection. The next day I rang a close friend of mine who is a philandering male (please don?t judge me on my friends?) and he told me DH was definitely lying about using protection.

That day I went back to the house, not having been there for some time, in a symbolic ?moving back in with DH? gesture. We had agreed that he would finish with OW that night and be back by a certain time. Two hours after that deadline was up I assumed he was not coming back so I decided to find out the true extent of their relationship. I went into his Skype account (note ladies this IS a criminal act) and there was a whole written conversation between them which talked about him sleeping next to her, their passionate mornings (I?m sparing the graphic detail) and the fact that she couldn?t wait to fly out to see him. What I don?t understand is how another woman (excellent job, educated at top uni, so not dim) could go into my home to steal my DH. Forget the morals about affairs, I just would not go into someone else?s home and abuse it ? it feels like I have been burgled let alone having my husband stolen. BTW philandering male friend told me that men don?t think the same as women about bricks and mortar which oddly enough did help me. Back to Skype, with one password I found out the extent of his lying ? he had stayed overnight with her at her house and he had taken her to my dream home. Anyway, he eventually came home having dumped her and when I showed him what I?d found he confessed. He then told me he could never trust me again (yes, HE could never trust ME again) and changed all his passwords.

So, fast forward over a couple of traumatic months where he finished with her, I finished with him, we pinged back together, they pinged back together etc. Note: at no stage did he finish with me. The main reason for his flipping back and forth was that he refused to give up the hobby so OW was always there, reeling him in. He then properly finished with OW and, at my insistence, gave up the hobby. The only problem is he was thoroughly depressed, clearly grieving the OW and totally self-absorbed ? like a sulking child.

During the last reconciliation it was clear he was still communicating with her and when I was packing my belongings to leave he had an outburst and implored me to stay, confessing that they had been texting and phoning but not e-mailing or seeing each other. I agreed to stay one last time but his behaviour has gone back to being odd so I expect she?s back on the scene. I turned Poirot and found that there had previously been more than texting but the killer for me is that it is clear he really really loves her and is staying with me for financial reasons. Sadly his behaviour supports this so I cannot rationalise that the words were ?just for her?. Also during this period my mental health spiralled downwards and I ended up on anti-depressants, all the time pleading with him to stop the lying and tell me truth, and he just looked me in the eye and lied and lied.

Oh and one final thing on my scenario I have endured the agony of a visit to ?the clinic? and been checked out completely and he has now admitted that they did not use protection as the affair intensified. Additionally, from the start of their affair I have had thrush on and off and felt that I wasn?t ?quite right? down there so again, all of that fell into place once I knew.

I am lucky in that my work colleagues have been AMAZING and carried me through this hell but family only know we?re having problems. I know that even though I am strong tonight over the next day or so I will want to hear him, touch him, smell him and feel his arms around me (although lately hugs were only there when I asked, wtf ?) that's where I hope you MNs will be around to keep me focussed and strong. He's a liar and a cheat and I am too good for him (my current mantra).

Thank you for reading this far.

Packing commenced. LPs retrieved. So many memories there. Meat Loaf "Bat out of Hell", first grown up LP I bought. I played it to death on the stack system that Mum and Dad bought me for passing all my O Levels (remember those?). True Love No 1 gave me Vol 1 and 2 of Diana Ross' love songs for our 3rd month anniversary. Do you remember those days, ladies? I must confess I completely forgot my wedding anniversary last year because law exams took over. Oops. That probably says something. ZZ Top was my first ever concert. I went with a man I rather admired back then. Elvis' love songs just pure slush. Fame "I'm gonna live for ever, I'm gonna learn how to fly". So watch me H, I will fly so much higher without you. Just watch me.

And you will

I know it

All the best to you x

Well I tried the chin up and tits out thing but nearly fell down the stairs while carrying my boxes .

So I filled the car, even with a box in the footwell of the passenger seat and a suitcase belted in. I chugged down to Mum and Dad's (chug is all the car could manage with that load) and there they were waiting for their boomerang daughter. I stood in the kitchen and felt like a teenager trying to pluck up the courage to confess something heinous to Mum with Buzz's words racing round my head tell your fierce Mum and Dad tell your fierce Mum and Dad. I didn't. I ducked out like a teenager (or cowardly H). So finally over dinner I told them. They were just wonderful. Yet another weight has lifted. So siblings next.

I swear that without all of your posts I would never have said that today and be feeling this positive.

Wow. x

Forgot to mention, Mum's response was: "Bloody men, they just can't keep their dicks in their trousers".

She's an elegant 83 year old with failing sight who never swears but she sure as hell is not daft.

So what's this all about? It's nearly 5am and I've had no sleep yet. Tried but gave up so logged on. At least when you wake up during the heartbreak hour you've had SOME sleep. Grrrr.

Hi - you're awake cos of the adrenalin rush B&A; I was just like you the week after ex left; absolutely exhausted but just couldn't switch off. You've made a massive decision, for all the right reasons, but your body clock is all over the place, trying to catch up. You will sleep, but your proper sleep patterns might take a while to settle. I remember being amazed that I just kept going, then one weekend I was exhausted and spent most of it sleeping.

Didn't you do really well yesterday? Proud of you girl! When you read your OP and post about telling your parents - you sound a different person. You will feel more and more relieved and uplifted everytime you tell someone. I dreaded telling my parents - they are both in their late 70s, but they have been amazingly supportive. Like the sound of your mum. My dad's response was "always thought he was a bit of a prat" which made me laugh - there I was thinking dad would be heartbroken to lose his son-in-law of 22 years!

Rest when you can, cry when you need to, and slowly, bit by bit, you'll get it all together. Lean on us. You're over the worse now. It won't be easy and will be a rollercoaster, but draw strength from knowing you've done the right thing.

Thank you! I do love your Dad's comment! I've always really enjoyed the fact that my brother (most favoured of my sibs) and H get on extremely well so I wonder what he will let slip when I tell him?

I have to say I didn't know my Mum knew the meaning of the word dick so I was quite impressed to be truthful.

Saff, you are such a rock. How on earth have you reached this point after only three months while keeping the DCs going too? I know it probably felt like years while dragging yourself through everything and lurching all over the place on this unwanted rollercoaster ride but you have really acheived amazing things and you offer your advice with such compassion and thought.

I have been lurking on your thread for some while and it never ceases to amaze me what these men gits do and how quickly they reinvent their marriage in order to suit themselves and find the excuse to escape. I now get the feeling my H was "trying on" excuses to see which one would finally push my exit button because he sure as hell doesn't have one of his own.

He was so busy reinventing like mad over the last year. Apparently I didn't like this and didn't like that, we never did this and we never did that (when we most certainly did). Thinking about it, as we limped on his reinventions got more desparate until he said to me the other week in that woe is me voice, with the hound dog lip: "I'd love a wrap for lunch, but you hate wraps". Erm, wrong. He was really starting to scrape the barrel to come out with that.

I can hear it now: "And on what grounds are you seeking a divorce?" "Well, M'lud, the lady doesn't like wraps".

Now that's a prat.

Bless your mum . You're on your way - and may all his wraps be soggy.

Well, i nearly posted this morning and asked you what you were doing up so early young lady - but so was I so I'm a fine one to talk!

It's amazing what happens when we find a bit of courage and get wonderful feedback that living with bastard H's denies us. Yours has done exactly the same as mine and it really is cowardice of the highest order.

But I am beginning to believe that what goes around most certainly comes around.You can be sure that if your mum had his number, so will other people. Make sure you don't turn it on it's head and remonstrate with yourself in any way for being with someone who other people may tell you they thought was a cocking idiot - you loved him and wanted your marriage to work, as do most of us who are in your situation.

You're on the road to a life without deceit and betrayal. His road, on the other hand, will be filled with pot-holes.

I have only just read your thread - but wanted to say that things do get better - i caught my H having an affair on the 28 Dec and chucked him out. I bitterly regretted it for a while but now i am glad that i found out and feel that i will be happier in the future than i would have staying with him. Even now i have moments where i am much more content than for a while.

Saffy and wised up woman and all the other lovely ladies on here have also helped me get through - i worry that some people have disappeared but hope they have been lurking like i have been. You are doing brilliantly and all the physical stuff is quite normal and will pass.

Chin up and tits out - whatever happened to that thread it was a godsend to me in the early days -and as saffysmum says you can draw strength from here and nowing that you have done the right thing.

devastated how awful for you to have found out at such a supposedly 'family-oriented' time of year, but good for you for calling time and your story will help other people going through the same thing .

B&A, thanks for the lovely things you've said. I'm not a rock, I have wobbly days, not because I miss ex, because I really don't, but because although I love being single again, it's a huge adjustment after nearly half my life being married. I never expected to reach 50 and be alone. But it's ok, it really is. And the last few years were really lousy and horrible.

I don't know if you will feel this, or if Wisey does, but because I know see my husband as he really is, I know look at all the "happy" early years, and wonder if they were fake too. This is hard to articulate. But I always thought he was a nice man, a caring man. And now I don't know whether he did change, and become the horrible man I chucked out. Or if he was always horrible, and I made excuses and covered up for him....I just know I look back at the good times, when I thought we were really happy, and wonder if he was "acting" the happy devoted husband/father....

Anyway, you're doing so well, and it's very early days, so be gentle on yourself.

devastated - you've had a lousy time, what horrible timing for it to happen. Thanks for your kind comments, I have drawn such strength from MN, I find it really uplifting that so many women we don't know in real life take the time to care, think and respond. Good luck.

Saff you have totally hit the nail on the head, again, with the revisits of the past. I have endured a half-life since mid-February and then mid-March when he pulled out OW (verbally, phew) and since then the strangest process has occurred. I would resolve to Forgive, Love and Stand By his latest misdemeanour/confession. Then when I had digested whatever stepping stone of deceit it was that I was FLSBing I would then identify another problem which I had to hunt down and he would confess to, or not, (I'm sure the FBI has a term for this sort of rolling out of clues and detective work). With each of these experiences I started delving further back into our past and I have analysed practically the whole 15 years, wondering if I was in the company of Mr Jekyll or Mr Hyde over certain periods.

When I was in the midst of that bewilderment (which included trying to figure out the present, which WAS a pack of lies) I ended up on ADs because that sort of mental gymnastics really does play horrible tricks on the mind. It is a cliche, and I know, Saff, you work in MH, but for a while I wondered if I was the sane person in the asylum trying to prove I was sane. As it happens I was, but only to myself.

Wisey, I love the thought of his pot-holes and him and OW doing a serious injury. You see the hobby activity where they met does require agility and fitness. Imagine the two of them in traction unable to requite their destiny .

Yesterday was exhausting in so many ways. I?d had about 1.5 hours sleep, having stayed awake the whole night. Normally when I?m in insomniac mode it?s because I cannot get him or OW out of head but on Thursday night I was just awake. Annoying and boring but I wasn?t feeling tortured by thoughts of H.

Dad?s last words when I left yesterday were: ?I?m glad to see you so happy again?. Dad was exaggerating in my humble opinion with the ?so happy? but I think he just meant relative to the past few months, I?m certainly not ?so happy? but it illustrated to me the depths of sadness I?d plumbed while doing the right thing and trying to make my marriage work.

As I type this I now have a picture of me with H which really sums up the last 5 months; let me try and describe it. We?re standing face-to-face. His face full of sadness turns away, I take my hands and turn it back to me. His face fleetingly looks happier but then he sees me and it becomes sad again.

In the end no amount of love for him could reverse the expressions so that the smile and joy were for me and somehow, by some means, that message finally drummed into my skull on Monday and pushed the ?leave now? button. Oddly enough it was always there buzzing around in my head but so was hope, because I was listening to his words of wanting to save our marriage and be with me. I now speak fluent H and know this translates as wanting to save his pension and avoid the hassle of a divorce and splitting assets. So I let the message sit there awhile in my head and then figured I would go. I packed, I double checked inside my head that I still wanted to go and then I left. So sad yet so empowering and six days on it really was the right thing to do.

So back to yesterday. Of I went from Ma and Pa?s to the house; sat on our national treasure of an M25 for a couple of hours in a pointless jam. Got to house and just slung boxes and stuff in the car that I want around me at the flat. The silly things like all of the treasured cards I?ve received over the years and the paper daffodil that DSD1 made me when she was ten. All of those things that you do not put on a shelf, that you do not look at very often but that you cannot part with, even when you are trying to squeeze your life into the most bijou of bijou residences. I left the house with this whumping thumping sadness in me; no tears just the kind of sadness that makes you feel heavy and weighed down. And I shall get to this all over again over the coming weeks until my presence is not even a shadow in his life.

Now I am a Radio 4 gal and there?s nothing I love more than driving while listening to Woman?s Hour or the afternoon play. But not yesterday. I wanted needed music so Heart FM came to the rescue with its golden oldies. And the first song? ?Girls are doing it for themselves. Well we certainly are, aren?t we MNers?

I could not face hauling the boxes up the stairs when I arrived home yesterday so I shall do that today. Either before or after the pilates class that I have booked. The first in ages. I used to do my pilates 2 or 3 times a week after work but since Discovery my raison d?être has been to be with him so I just rushed home, as much to stop him seeing OW as anything else. God, there really was no hope from the start was there? I am starting to see that now. So my abs will be returning and legs will be firming and my back will be grateful because it?s killing me right now.

I opened a bottle of wine, tucked into my sloppy joe and then fell asleep on the sofa feeling sad but somehow free.

Saff I?m looking forward to the old me returning. She?s popping in and out already and I really did used to be a wee devil so I have to remember to add grace to my deeds to befit the age. I?m mid-40s and like you did not expect to be without H as this point. It sucks because of HOW it happened but it?s fine. I shall have a good life without him and I already feel that I?ve had more highs in the past week than I have the past 5 months.

Tomorrow I?m meeting a girlfriend; we?re doing a picnic in the park and an art gallery. If I were home with H I?d be pottering in the incredibly beautiful kitchen I have left behind, actually that IS NOT true. I used to potter Before Discovery but I really haven?t pottered since. I?ve lurked, fretting that he would be texting her, fretting that he would be thinking of her, fretting that he would be in the study admiring the ugly old bint on his computer (sorry, these childish outbursts keep happening). So if I were at home with H I?d be lurking and fretting. Give me hauling boxes, pilates, picnics and art galleries any day of the week.

Gawd I don?t half go on. This is so long. Sorry but as therapy goes this is way better and cheaper than the real thing.

I now speak fluent H and know this translates as wanting to save his pension and avoid the hassle of a divorce and splitting assets.

God, your post made me want to cry in many ways. Are you sure you aren't me?
Everything, absolutely everything you said, resonates.

I could've pasted all your post into this one and added my own thoughts. But I selected the above because of what you say about speaking fluent H - this is my experience exactly about the pension and assets. But more, he is in my head pretty much constantly no matter how much I tell myself "thank you XH for that running commentary, now fuck off".

I want to tell you about that because I want to tell you not to make the monologue of your H's voice your voice. It kills me to know that he will be endlessly telling OW how much he loves her, and by default does not love me any more. It kills me that after 20 years nothing matters to him any more except his new life. Whether he is just repeating a well-worn and honed pattern is pretty irrelevant, it still hurts.

That heavy feeling you get does come and go in my experience, and I've learned that it isn't something that goes away just because you want it to, so it's best just to try and accept it's there for the time being. I think the motivation to pick up and do things you previously did comes and goes too, so do them while you can but don't beat yourself up when it all feels too much and all you want to do is slump.

Your thread will be an inspiration to other women who come here, and all too sadly there will be another woman along soon with another sad tale.

I hope your weekend goes well B&A, you deserve it.

So much of your post resonates with me too B&A.

I was always very bubbly, laid back and quietly self-confident. When I first met ex I was fiercely independent, had my own flat, a brilliant job in advertising and a great social life. I was ready to settle down (late twenties), and all was well. My life changed dramatically when the kids came along (four born within 5 years of each other - gulp!) after 4 or so years of a happy marriage. Ex continued much as before, building up his career, and I ran the home and looked after our kids. I missed my old life and independence, but embraced being a mum, and took to mothering like a duck to water. I was in my element. I always did far more of the child care than I should have, but at the time didn't mind at all. I made excuses for ex, "daddy's tired....daddy's had a long day, etc".

As kids got older and more independent I retrained to become a nurse - something I'd always wanted to do. I went back to work after agreeing with ex that he would pull his weight around the house.

The hours fitted well around the kids - working a couple or 3 nights a week. Then I started to get a bit fed up, when the washing up from the meal I'd cooked us all before going to work was still in the sink the next morning, and I'd get home to find that ex hadn't given the kids their breakfast or sorted uniform, or made lunchboxes, but was watching sky news eating a leisurely breakfast, and he'd spent the night before watching football rather than washing up, helping with household stuff. Anyway, I put up with it. But it got me down, we were growing apart, and I became aware that the kids always came to me for everything, and had little time for him, and he had less time and patience with them.

Then two years ago, it snowballed. He became moody, distant and incredibly critical of me. Nothing I said was right, nothing I did was good enough. He picked me up on everything, how much I ate, how much I didn't eat, how much I drank, how much I didn't drink, absolutely everything. The compliments stopped, the caring stopped, any interest in my life, my work, my family, my friends, my interests just stopped, like a switch being turned off.

So I did what million of women probably do, and I blamed myself. A big mistake I realise now, but that's how it made me feel - unworthy of his love, old, washed up, useless. My confidence plummeted.

After a horrendous year last year, due to a family bereavement, things hit rock bottom, and I knew that it was over. And I started to slowly emerge from the horrible shell that his loathing had pushed me into.

You only know how bad it was, when you're out the other side. You only know how much you've changed when their negativity is removed.

That's why my mum said "I feel I've finally got the real you back" a week after he left. And that's why your dad said you looked happier.

Because they've watched us wilt before their eyes. Everyone has. But we were just so wrapped up in the pain and sadness that we stopped caring about ourselves.

So start putting yourself first, and treat yourself like you would your best friend.

X

This thread has really made me sad. Even though its a few years ago now that it happened to me the raw pain that B&A describes makes it feel like only yesterday. I stayed with my XH for a year after finding out about OW as our home was tied to his job and it meant that I would have to be the one to leave and our 2 very young DC would not only lose their dad but their home as well. DH was also telling me that he still loved me and that OW was history. I wanted to believe him and tried to make the marriage work but I came home one day to find him drunk in bed and with his mobile next to him. I wouldn't normally check anyone's phone but I did then and found loads of messages they had sent each other only that day declaring their love and making it obvious they had never stopped seeing each other.

I left not long after and as a single parent with not much money it has been really hard but it was such a relief not having to always worry about where he was and who he was with that it was worth it. I didn't realise how much he had damaged my self esteem until I was on my own again, people commented on how they had the old me back again.

Funnily enough as soon as I left and I filed for divorce almost immediately, XH dumped OW and begged me to give him another chance but it was too late by then. He now hates OW with a passion and blames her for leading him astray and destroying his life. He will never take responsibility for his own actions and say's he was ill at the time with depression.

Anyway what I'm trying to say in a long waffly way is that no matter how painful it is it will get better and I have no doubt that your H will come crawling back now the forbidden fruit is no longer forbidden. From what you have said in your posts I think you will be having too much fun by then to even care.

I?ve realised a couple of things today - boy has this been my Week of Realisation. Do we all have one of those weeks where something clicks and then wham, no matter how hard it gets, no matter how many tears you cry, you know your relationship is over and that you are crossing the point of no return?

Realisation 1) I?m probably further down the recovery process than I appreciated because of all of your threads on which I?ve lurked for the past few months. That?s not to say it is easy but having spent the whole day in bed last Saturday under a black cloud of hopelessness while H ignored me and sat in his study (his favourite pastime when not shagging OW) I emerged not wanting another bleak black day like that. On Monday I sat there and worked out that I had wasted five months of my life on his lies. Five whole fucking months. That really bugged me.

Realisation 2) The name of my thread is misleading. I don?t feel that I need your help detaching (I definitely need your help, just not in the detaching department), at least not for now, but maybe I will next week. I?ve been detaching from H while lurking on your threads and I?m feeling very detached. The chain links were weakening every time I read one of your amazing threads or the amazing advice you provide others. (I did also adopt a sneaky subliminal technique and every time I had to change one of the myriad of passwords at work I changed to a divorce related word to galvanise me.)

So to any lurkers out there, keep lurking. Post when you're ready but lurking really does help. Posting really helps too because when you post you can read it back and you can read the help you are getting. Even days later you read everything back and you pick out a new salient point that resonates.

Forget boxercise, I?ve discovered stepbox, or is that boxstep? Carrying your life in boxes up a couple of flights of stairs (OK, OK, Pickfords discovered it before me). So that chore is now done for this week but there is an awful lot more to come. Curiously as I was relaying the boxes up I imagined Wisey, Saff, Buzz et al alongside me and thinking of all of the positive and encouraging things you would have to say.

Every so often I chuckle at the thought of H picking up a soggy wrap and all of the best bits falling through the soggy bit and then I see him and OW falling down one of his home-made pot-holes. Isn?t that a curious thing? Just goes to show how powerful this MN thing really is. So that is my metaphor for H and OW, the two of them cocooned in a soggy wrap. A mess of their own making out of which I?m sure they will fall. Sorry H, I won?t be there to catch you.

I approached my boss a couple of weeks ago and asked if I could go down to working three days a week for three months so that I could try and restore my life in some way. At that time I had some notion that H and I could have long weekends away, or we could just be doing nice things together to revive the positive bonds like going for a walk etc and remove the daily grind element from our life (hmm, just twigged that H was getting a daily grind, but not from me).

I am fairly senior at work so it was a long shot to ask but they said yes in a flash. So with so much talk of horrible companies letting their employees down I feel immensely privileged. Let?s hear it for my company. Rah Rah. Hence I will be spending a couple of days a week trundling to the house and identifying the items to go to Mum and Dad?s and the items to be stacked in my tiny abode; so I am guaranteed a solo boxstep class once a week. I truly never thought I would be doing this whole separating of possessions again. It is the pits.

One thing I don?t have to do is change my name. :) I kept my maiden name when we married (having changed my name back post divorce 1). When we were in reconciliation mode (or should I call that lying through teeth mode) I asked him if he minded that I hadn?t changed my name and he told me he had thought it was odd and he would have preferred it if I?d taken his name. He never said a thing about that when we got married even though I talked to him about my idea. If he had I would gladly have changed it for him. So communication wasn?t too great back then, was it?

Wisey, I don?t have H?s voice in my head at the moment; I have something so much better there, yours and those of the MN crew. Wonderful voices: ?detach?, ?he?s a coward? ?be gentle on yourself? ?tell your fiery Mum and Dad?. It?s all there and is making me stronger. You know when you water that neglected bunch of flowers and 30 minutes later you?re sure they?re more sturdy than before and then before you know it they?re all perky and upright again? Well that?s how I?m feeling right now, not yet perky and upright but getting there.

Delia, thank you for your words of encouragement. I totally admire anyone who makes the choice to leave their H when they have young DCs (although any age is tough, to be honest) and are financially dependent on him. That takes real courage and you have clearly been repaid with happiness and peace of mind. It's the peace of mind I'm enjoying right now. Not caring about where he is or if he's phoning her or texting her is so wonderful.

*Devasted", thank you for swinging by. It is uplifting to realise that someone actually reads my thread and it is a thrill to get a post!

*Saff", you are so right that it is a switch that is turned off. One day I rocked his world and then I didn't. He still can't see that. He still thinks he was clever enough to behave normally when the affair started but he wasn't. Even the DSDs detected something. Their Dad, who was always available to talk, was suddenly AWOL. You could never get him on his mobile so they would call me bewildered asking where he was and I'd have to say he was off doing the hobby. And your words "treat yourself like you would your best friend" are so beautiful. What wonderful advice to give.

YouMakeMeWanna, are you still there? Have you stuck with my navel-gazing? If so, how is it going? I'm not sure how to find someone's thread by the poster's name but if you haven't posted yet, do think about starting your own thread. If you have, let me know where you are. I hope you are OK with H at the bottom of the orchard. I'd struggle with that. I'd be anxiously checking every hour of the day that the caravan isn't rocking!

BTW the song on the car radio yesterday was "Sisters are doing it for themselves" not girls. Silly me.

Pilates was brill. A totally shaggable instructor and a tough workout that got those old endorphins flowing. Highly recommended. In case you're wondering why a Pilates class would have a shaggable instructor, I don't do mat pilates but reformer pilates which has more men teaching it. Hah, B&A's not daft, just the men she picks.

So glad you're doing all you can to take care of yourself. I've learned that it takes much less energy looking after yourself even in the most sorry state, than endlessly trying to fix the unfixable.

I used to flog myself to death in the gym 4 or 5 times a week. I realise now it was because I was so stressed. I haven't been for months now, and instead I come home from work, potter about for a bit, make the evening meal and then relax if I can because even with all the shit, I don't feel the need to exhaust my body into submission in the same way I used to. It's because he's not here any more. The tension is gone, all my aches and pains have disappeared.

You are going to be just fine B&A. And we'll be there to cheer you on.

maybe wife number one is reading this and can help you get over the pain of him or maybe as you are so insistent that as you are southern and she was the northern first wife she is somehow so not a woman of equal value to you that he wouldn't even recognise her.

Morning B&A and Saff.

I know what you mean about feeling insane and looking back, trying to discern what bits were real and what bits weren't. I've got to a place where I believe that my XH was always a liar and a fraud, but since this made him forever vulnerable, he needed rescuing by me rather than him scooping me up and rescuing me (which was the narrative of our marriage). So I think he genuinely wanted and needed to be attached to me and he 'loved' the security that being with me with offered.

I don't know why XH or anyone has to live their lives like that, but now I know that's who he is it frees me not go keep going back over our lives and trying to identify which bits were the 'real' him. He'll never change, he'll always be looking over his shoulder, he'll always need a secure base to cling on to and any woman he makes a life with will find herself either catching on quickly to his real agenda or, like me, gradually diminishing herself to protect him. That's what current OW is getting herself into now. A man who will cling like a limpet to anyone he can whilst always on the lookout for Plan B, just in case it all goes tits up again. That's why every single person, without exception, has told me how inauthentic and confusing they found XH to be.

Really, we have much to celebrate.

God, not to keep going back it's fecking early!

Wisey, Hear Hear.

During one of my heated exchanges with H I asked him how OW felt about being Plan B, being strung along for if/when I found the courage to walk away. He just said: "I'm not sure she'd see it like that". Of course not, because he will have been spinning her the whole Hans Christian Andersen line which she fell for hook, line and sinker.

I feel that with me he was playing the long game, biding his time until I left so that in his mind his conscience was as clear as it could be. At the moment I'm in the "everything he ever did and said were lies" place but in my heart I know he loved me very much and very honestly once and I've still got to learn to live with the fact that he doesn't anymore and do so without the hate and bile seeing me through the day. For now I'll surf on hate and bile if that's what I need to do. At least there's no overwhelming rage anymore so I'm grateful for the small steps forward that I can see and feel.

In the meantime I've somehow got to hoist this heavy heart over my shoulders and strut my stuff out there in RL today. So contacts in, lippy on, chin up and tits out. x

RL was goood. Worth the effort.
Slinky red dress purchased (place your bets as to how long that will fit, so I'll make the most of it).
Oh so sophisticated scarf purchased.
Waterfall cardi that just screams chic purchased.
All in all a darn good day.

BandA, you are quite phenomenal