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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I've gone but I'm going to need your help detaching and staying away

277 replies

BeforeAndAfter · 04/07/2011 23:31

Sorry this is so long - I have lurked on the threads of Solost and WisedUpWoman (and others), in total admiration at the honesty, courage and determination laid out there not to mention the incredible advice (and wicked humour) provided by the MN crew. I know that I will really need the support of you lovely ladies over the coming weeks.

Like many of you my life can be divided into two acts: Before Discovery (BD) and After Discovery (AD). Life immediately BD wasn?t quite normal but wasn?t too far off. After 15 years together, the last six of which have been married, I thought we were just going through one of those distant, stressed phases, where a passionate love life was a distant memory due to DH?s redundancy, my exams, life etc. I now know otherwise and with that knowledge all of those little niggling signs that were there all fall into place and become obvious ? duh ? . How could I have missed the signs?

I am by no means daft but I had not put 2 and 2 together and reached 4, I was at about 3.25. I had figured out who OW was going to be but I truly thought it was budding as opposed to being in full bloom. My strategy BD had been to invite her to dinner and head off her attack by making me into a real live human being with feelings (I have never met her) but it turns out that I was way way too late. Discovery took place on 16 March with a bit more detail on 17 March. The affair has been going on since July 2010. YES, that long. In his words it started as the odd shag but since this year has developed into far more where he realised that come what may, all three players would be hurt (ah, such thoughtfulness).

At this point I feel I need to give some more detail about our lifestyle to give more context. We are fortunate enough to have a house in the country and a crash pad in the city, which was used by us both as relief from the commute. Then in August last year we bought our dream home (quasi retirement) somewhere warm, with a view to me giving up work in 2012, when DH?s pension would kick in. I work full-time (I?m 14 years younger than DH), we have no kids but he has two DDs who are now my beloved DSDs, both of whom are at uni.

Following DH?s redundancy in 2008 he found a part-time job and took up a hobby and the hobby is how he met OW. Towards the end of last year I noticed I could do little right and with his increasing enthusiasm for his hobby and his increasing criticism of me I found myself spending more time on my own at the crash pad rather than with DH at the house. Lesson number 1, never leave a man alone, they need constant attention. OW obviously couldn?t believe her luck and she reeled him in big time.

In February I approached DH to say that I felt we had drifted apart and needed to fix things at which point he agreed and, with indecent haste, volunteered that we spend time apart (about six weeks) with no communications so that he ?could think?. I was dumbfounded as being on his own is totally out of character for him (he is a selfish needy person, so a typical man then). He suggested he would go to the dream home for some space to allow his feelings for me to return and strengthen (ho ho). Anyway, I was still scratching my head, trying to figure out who this man was and trying to figure out why he had built a brick wall and wouldn?t let me in. He came back from the dream home and met me as arranged and agreed that we were best friends etc and that we should try and restart our relationship. At that point he was still not himself. A couple of hours later he broke down and dropped the bombshell about OW and the fact it had been going on since July 2010. I asked if he?d taken OW to dream home and he said ?absolutely not? and then I asked if he?d stayed overnight at her place when I was at crash pad and he said ?no?. I also asked the inevitable question about safe sex and was assured they always used protection. The next day I rang a close friend of mine who is a philandering male (please don?t judge me on my friends?) and he told me DH was definitely lying about using protection.

That day I went back to the house, not having been there for some time, in a symbolic ?moving back in with DH? gesture. We had agreed that he would finish with OW that night and be back by a certain time. Two hours after that deadline was up I assumed he was not coming back so I decided to find out the true extent of their relationship. I went into his Skype account (note ladies this IS a criminal act) and there was a whole written conversation between them which talked about him sleeping next to her, their passionate mornings (I?m sparing the graphic detail) and the fact that she couldn?t wait to fly out to see him. What I don?t understand is how another woman (excellent job, educated at top uni, so not dim) could go into my home to steal my DH. Forget the morals about affairs, I just would not go into someone else?s home and abuse it ? it feels like I have been burgled let alone having my husband stolen. BTW philandering male friend told me that men don?t think the same as women about bricks and mortar which oddly enough did help me. Back to Skype, with one password I found out the extent of his lying ? he had stayed overnight with her at her house and he had taken her to my dream home. Anyway, he eventually came home having dumped her and when I showed him what I?d found he confessed. He then told me he could never trust me again (yes, HE could never trust ME again) and changed all his passwords.

So, fast forward over a couple of traumatic months where he finished with her, I finished with him, we pinged back together, they pinged back together etc. Note: at no stage did he finish with me. The main reason for his flipping back and forth was that he refused to give up the hobby so OW was always there, reeling him in. He then properly finished with OW and, at my insistence, gave up the hobby. The only problem is he was thoroughly depressed, clearly grieving the OW and totally self-absorbed ? like a sulking child.

During the last reconciliation it was clear he was still communicating with her and when I was packing my belongings to leave he had an outburst and implored me to stay, confessing that they had been texting and phoning but not e-mailing or seeing each other. I agreed to stay one last time but his behaviour has gone back to being odd so I expect she?s back on the scene. I turned Poirot and found that there had previously been more than texting but the killer for me is that it is clear he really really loves her and is staying with me for financial reasons. Sadly his behaviour supports this so I cannot rationalise that the words were ?just for her?. Also during this period my mental health spiralled downwards and I ended up on anti-depressants, all the time pleading with him to stop the lying and tell me truth, and he just looked me in the eye and lied and lied.

Oh and one final thing on my scenario I have endured the agony of a visit to ?the clinic? and been checked out completely and he has now admitted that they did not use protection as the affair intensified. Additionally, from the start of their affair I have had thrush on and off and felt that I wasn?t ?quite right? down there so again, all of that fell into place once I knew.

I am lucky in that my work colleagues have been AMAZING and carried me through this hell but family only know we?re having problems. I know that even though I am strong tonight over the next day or so I will want to hear him, touch him, smell him and feel his arms around me (although lately hugs were only there when I asked, wtf ?) that's where I hope you MNs will be around to keep me focussed and strong. He's a liar and a cheat and I am too good for him (my current mantra).

Thank you for reading this far.

OP posts:
BeforeAndAfter · 31/08/2011 20:56

He won't text. To be honest I knew I'd intimidated the fuck out of him; if he texts back I would be stunned.

I did text back saying I appreciated him letting me know that he was unavoidably detained. At least he didn't leave me in the pub but I had been prepared for that; I was going to buy my pint and sit and read the paper for an hour. If he turned up fine, if he didn't then fine.

But, dib dib dib, dob dob dob, if he texts back I'll probably accept because he was really good fun but I'll be unavoidably detained for his first suggested date. He won't text back and that's fine.

OP posts:
ameliagrey · 31/08/2011 21:15

Sorry about Biceps man.

I think only you know the depth of your grief over your ex. Your therapist can guess, but no 2 people's reactions are the same.

However- and i really hope this doesn't come over as patronising- do take care not to get into anything else too quickly.

I can understand how it's good for the old ego, but I have known so many friends- male and female- who have jumped at whatever has come long after a break up, only to either end it themselves, or be dumped. Sometimes they went into it casually but the other person became too involved, sometimes it was the other way round. But whichever way there was fallout.

I'm not saying enter a nunnery but at the same time you need some space to get your head straight- in the nicest way- and it really is not long since March.

I am not talking from personal experience- though I did have a couple of long relationships before I got married- and after each ended I dated all kinds of unsuitable men, looking for a replacement.

I just feel that you are vulnerable and you need to think about whether you could take rejection again at this stage- or be the rejector- so soon.

I'm not raining on your Biceps man parade- just suggest, if you don't know it, which you will- that you take it all slowly.

BeforeAndAfter · 31/08/2011 21:29

Hmm Dozer, not a bad idea ... now didn't Wisey mention he was God?

Amelia, I like your style! You don't hector which I appreciate. I shall ruminate further.

OP posts:
drfayray · 01/09/2011 03:12

Hi B&A just caught up with your thread. I am sorry.

Ameliagrey good posts. I found what you said very useful too so thank you.

B&A, I agree with what you wrote about when the whole thing started. For me it was on Jan 19th when I first found the email that showed that fecker was up to no good. Sure I had this stupid belief that the marriage could be saved as it was 'just' a friendship...yeah right. But it is now 8 months on and I am starting to feel good again. Thanks in no small way to lovely support from people like you, Wisey, Saffy, and others.

Take care.

wiseoldowl · 01/09/2011 19:09

Of course you can call me Owly.
Sorry to hear about Biceps man, have just caught up.
I also wouldnt be one to hector but strongly agree with Amelia. I think any of us would now be vulnerable and the temptation is there to prove that we are still attractive and can pull etc. However I've always thought to myself if anything did happen (was it a premonition?) that I would want to just sit back and take time out for myself (& my DC) and find myself again. There is so much compromise goes on when in a partnership (?! well from some sides anyway).
You have all been saying you have found how nice people and the world can be, I think we also need to see how nice we can be, without looking at men as the next potential partner... after all how many did you go out with before you found Mr Right (wtf) before?

suzymiller · 01/09/2011 19:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

TheOriginalFAB · 01/09/2011 19:49

Reported, suzymiller.

wellthatsdoneit · 01/09/2011 20:55

Just dropping by to give you a little wave b&a. You are doing marvellously. As my counsellor (who is usually a bit rubbish by the way and clearly embittered by her own divorce, but hey, she's what the nhs 'gave' me and that's all I can 'afford' right now) said "You are getting stronger even though you might not feel it at the moment".

Biceps man has fulfilled his role as fit muscly snoggage. I must say though when you talked about all his marathons my alarm bells were ringing. Imagine being a Running Widow? Ugh, no thanks!

BeforeAndAfter · 02/09/2011 00:08

FAB, thanks for your diligence back there. I appreciate it.

Hi Wellthat, you are so right about Bicep Man, he fulfilled his role and plumped up my ego such that I won't fit into my tiny flat soon Grin and good point about being a marathon widow ... We were never going to be anything more than ships passing in the night (plus he wants to settle down and have kids which I don't plan to do) but I wouldn't have minded another couple of honks of the fog horn!! Gosh, how many euphemisms can one think up??

So, here's the therapy update: he's signed me off for now, a week early It was a good session.

He's very intrigued about MN and is going to be looking through the Relationships thread as he agrees with me that MN has helped me a lot. There I am sitting in therapy talking about the three musketeers and going: "oh, and something Wisey said the other day ... and Saff mentioned this which really got me thinking and DrFay did that ...?. I've talked about so many of you, you are all so real to me. It's truly wonderful.

He commented on the fact that my work and my work colleagues have been so important to my recovery and said he has met so many women dealing with the aftermath of affairs who gave up their careers and then struggled when they left by their H's, so I count myself very lucky.

He also agreed that because I don't have young children to worry about and I didn't have to worry about putting a roof over my head this has all helped me move on faster. I can basically focus on me, myself and I and be as selfish as I need to get through this.

And he didn't hector me about Bicep Man. Apparently I'm allowed to land on a lily pad (his euphemism) as I long as I jump off and stay single... sounds good to me. I'm not allowed to rush into a relationship, which I definitely don't want to do.

As you said Owly I don?t want to compromise anymore. Do you know I plan to buy cushions for my sofa. Why? Because H didn?t like cushions and didn?t accept that they could be moved if you didn?t want to use them. Can you believe it? I compromised over fucking cushions.

I love the fact that I can go to IKEA and buy the item I like and put it where I want. I love the fact that I can do what I want when I want and given that I have a beautiful tiny home in a beautiful location why would I want to jeopardise any of that?

My current ideal is that I would find a nice chap with his own nice home and he?d stay at mine and I?d stay at his and occasionally we?d not be together and that would be fine. Obviously that could change in a few months? time, but that?s my current fairy-tale ending. It?s not quite what I expected at the age of 10, 20 or even 30!

Dozer and Amelia I am ruminating on a couple of your comments (thank you) and will be writing my tome on those at the weekend because you have both really got me thinking.

And so for the most important part of the update. Tomorrow night I celebrate DSD2?s 21st with DSD1 and DSD2. DSD1 needed some help with uni matters as a result of the fall-out from her Dad?s idiotic and selfish behaviour. Apparently he is being a shit with DSD2 and DSD1 is spending all her time supporting her baby sister. So I have helped DSD1 with a matter that I will not divulge here but that should have been done by her Dad, but she doesn?t want to ask him. I think that?s sad and I could crow that she can ask me but I think that would be sad too. I would hate to be in a position where (when push came to shove) I could not ask my Dad for help. It just makes me sad that their father is putting shagging OW ahead of their needs. They were so close to their Dad and he has just dropped them, like he dropped me, only he?s their Dad, so it?s so much worse.

Tomorrow we will have a beautiful night out, just the three of us (DSD2?s choice in the end), and I will not pry into the 3 week holiday that DSD2 has just had with OW even though every part of my body will want to know all of the gossip.

I?ll probably catch-up with you all on Saturday night. I have decided to stay in as I have a very busy Sunday ahead of me.

Goodnight one and all. You all sustain me, you really do. xx

OP posts:
drfayray · 02/09/2011 00:25

I do not know what that poster put that needed to be deleted but I was very angry that someone would DARE to put anything untoward! If you have nothing constructive to say, fuck off!

B&A I do the same thing too! When I see my psychologist (about once a month now, cos I am so much better Smile) I refer to posts and threads here.

I get what you mean about your DSDs and their father. Stupid ABCKF is doing the same with my beloved DC. Stupid stupid stupid. Very sad but makes me roil with anger.

I get what you mean about cushions too. Fecking twunty did not like cushions. I do! I like making them. I have so many plans for when I move early next year. I am very excited about it actually. I will imprint MYSELF not him on my surroundings.

I think it is much harder when you do have children; simply because you still have to have that connection with the father. What I want..what I yearn for is to never have to see that minging bastard face again. I hope that will be soon.

Take care B&A. I think about you, Saffy, Wisey and Owly a lot.

xx

Wisedupwoman · 02/09/2011 07:32

you are all so real to me.

We are real, we are with you and I feel really privileged that you take us into therapy with you. Make no mistake, next week in mediation, you'll be there with me making me smile, reminding me who I'm dealing with, keeping me focussed on the task.

Have a good weekend. Will look out for you.

wellthatsdoneit · 02/09/2011 11:17

The deleted post was just a bit of advertising DrFay, possibly posted with good intentions as the business was to do with helping after a split, but nonetheless not allowed.

Yes, we are real and all on similar journeys.

drfayray · 02/09/2011 12:57

Uhoh..Blush...sorry...just feeling rather protective of B&A.

TheOriginalFAB · 02/09/2011 13:05

As we all are Smile

She was spamming on a lot of relationship threads and I had had enough tbh and reported her, as did others.

BeforeAndAfter · 03/09/2011 17:07

Thank you DrFay and FAB, it feels so lovely to have you stick up for me. :)

Yesterday afternoon was a bit exciting because I got a text from Bicep Man Grin, so maybe his lame excuse was real and I was just too suspicious. We're both playing the not-too-keen game right now. So he texted me yesterday to see if I was free Wednesday so I went back today and said that the only free evening for me next week is Friday. He'll probably keep me hanging on for a day or so...

I'm all tingly and excited which is good in the sense that I can still be romanced and I want to be romanced but I need to be careful here because I don?t want a full on relationship, just someone to go on dates with and, erm, have fun with.

Watch this space.

Dinner with the DSDs was superb. The restaurant we went to was amazing, DSD2 loved her birthday pressie and we had lots of laughs and yes, I told them about Bicep Man and we giggled loads over that. They left this morning to continue a weekend of birthday celebrations.

We are so together in our new little family unit of three; it is really lovely. I think I am going to book a photo session for the three of us as this is a significant time in our lives as we are probably bonding in a more intense way than would ever have happened if I was still with TCH and think some photos to remember this moment would be good and despite being born out of such sadness, it feels the right thing to do. Plus potentially naff posed photos with lilac cloud backgrounds are always a source of amusement in the future!

So there was one gossipy moment which was funny but needs some context so bear with me:

April 2011
B&A is trying to figure out things to do with H to recreate closeness.
B&A suggests we go cycling in the lovely countryside around the house which we used to do a lot when we first bought it.
TCH claims we never went cycling. Hmm Then he tells me he doesn?t enjoy cycling with me because he has to cycle for fitness and go fast and I?m too slow and it frustrates him, so no, he doesn't want to cycle with B&A.

August 2011
B&A learns that TCH left the house for the holiday at dream home with three bicycles on the car roof.

September 2011
Last night we?re talking about cycling so I mention the above story to the DSDs and find out that the first time TCH and OW went off for a romantic cycle ride he got a puncture and that was the end of that. We all laughed loads at that!! GrinGrin

I?ll keep you posted on progress with Bicep Man.

OP posts:
TheOriginalFAB · 03/09/2011 17:31

LOL.

Wisedupwoman · 03/09/2011 19:42

we are probably bonding in a more intense way than would ever have happened if I was still with TCH

I think that's pretty much a given B&A. Saff, drfay, You, me, all the other lovely posters' who've been through something similar can't be unusual. Families re-group, they close boundaries, they say what's been unsayable. They'll always be your DSD's.

And Bicep Man will be shitting himself no matter how 'cool' he plays it. He should be, he's got an awesome woman to impress. Bet he's been in the gym constantly Grin

wiseoldowl · 04/09/2011 11:03

Glad to hear the birthday meal with DSDs went well. & also pleased to hear that Bicep is still hovering.
I am still with Amelia though, I think she puts it very well, I have seen so many people "out of the frying pan and into the fire". It's possibly to do with needing you ego massaged etc and to cock a snook at the XP but it must be very easy to grab at the first available raft (oo er). Definitely definitely need to think long and hard about the whys and wherefore's I think. (easy for me to say, I'm not there yet)

Wisedupwoman · 04/09/2011 11:50

Wisey2 you're right, but so long as B&A has us and her RL friends and family to see her through she'll be fine. As will you be.

catsrus · 04/09/2011 12:02

interesting to see the posts about bonding with DCs and DSCs once ex has run away with the OW - was just thinking that myself. If ex had not gone we would probably have bumbled on as before, good relationships with DCs I hope - but probably none of the long conversations till 4am about life, relationships, our future ... that I've been having with DCs since he went. If it wasn't for how upset the DCs are I would be very tempted to send OW a "thank you" card!

Wisedupwoman · 04/09/2011 18:47

Or one offering condolence.....Grin

BeforeAndAfter · 04/09/2011 20:10

Thanks Cats it is curious isn't it, the shifting sands of our relationships with our nearest and dearest. Without doubt my relationships with Mum, Dad, siblings, friends and colleagues has really become stronger and more open since the split.

The DSDs themselves made an interesting remark on Friday night. Apparently some of their friends are surprised that they are staying so close to me as their step-mum. As the DSDs say I have been a part of their lives for so long and provided care and a safe environment for them that they could never imagine me not being there. Then they said the bit I loved: "it's not like we met you now, then we'd only spend the odd day with you and we wouldn't give a toss what happened to you".

That's DSD speak for "we will never give a fuck about OW".

I tell you, I love my DSDs with all my heart.

OP posts:
BeforeAndAfter · 04/09/2011 21:40

Dozer a comment you made a few posts back intrigued me as it was not something that I had thought about at all. You mentioned that giving up three homes etc must have been hard. What I found interesting is that it did not come into the equation at all for me when I was deciding to leave H.

I find that a relief, to be honest, because it meant that the centre of my world had been H and not the things we had acquired.

What really hurt was giving up the dream home abroad, not because of the home but because of what it symbolized. That home symbolized me giving up work next year (that will not now happen which is fine) and with me giving up work came my expectation that we (H and me) would have time to re-forge the closeness that we used to have which I had recognised was significantly diminished, even way before Discovery.

The other part about dream home which makes me angry is we chose it in March, he first shagged OW in July and we paid for it in August. For me that?s misrepresentation, breach of trust and a form of fraud. He allowed me to approve a financial transaction with him having knowledge of facts that I did not have and, had I known them, it would have had a material influence on my decision.

Sassy sol thinks the courts would probably side with me on this if I have to push for what I want, which is half the Sterling cost (the exchange rate when we bought was £1 = euro 1; it was just about the worst time to buy). As we both work in finance we were aware of and discussed this exchange rate issue and agreed that we didn?t care because we planned to keep the house forever.

In fact we were originally going to buy a small house but we bought a big house instead because it was meant to be a forever house and we discussed all of this. At no point did H squirm, look shamefaced, or awkward. At no point did he cough and say: ?I think there?s something you should know, B&A?. And for that I shall never ever forgive him because he has an amazing business head above and beyond anything and I know him, and he would have made a calculated decision not to tell me; not an emotional one.

He has bleated that at that point in time OW meant nothing and that if we had pulled out of the sale he claims we would have lost the deposit (I have no idea if that?s true but it?s probable) but my position is simple. At the point of purchase he withheld a material fact from me that would have seen me halting all plans to buy that house. I would rather have had the choice to lose the deposit than be where I am now and find most of my liquidity tied up in a house that H defiled with OW.

But to come back to your point there was not one occasion when I was deciding to leave that the material things mattered. It was all about H and me; pure and simple and that really matters to me. Dozer, until you mentioned this in your post I hadn?t really thought about it.

OP posts:
BeforeAndAfter · 05/09/2011 21:14

'Scuse me, I'm a tad tiddly. Worked late and have drunk more red wine than consumed grub. First time in ages, so don't worry!

I've had some very serious stuff to do today but all I can think about is Bicep Man (and latterly my lovely DrFay). Uh Oh.

He texted me on Friday to see if I was free this Wednesday. I decided to let him stew. I texted back Saturday to say I'm only free this week on Friday (true, but I like the idea of playing hard to get).

I've not heard since. God I want that text. I want to text him back and shout "oy, what do you think you're doing, I'm on tenterhooks here." But I won't text back.

45 going on 15

So what's changed between now and 15 years ago? I would have texted him 15 years ago (had texts been invented ...). I would have changed my diary plans this week and moved exercise classes and meeting friends for drinks to meet Bicep Man. Today I won't. I really am only free on Friday but all of the other things are movable. But I don't compromise anymore. That's the difference.

OP posts:
Wisedupwoman · 06/09/2011 21:04

Way to go B&A, that's my girl!!