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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I've gone but I'm going to need your help detaching and staying away

277 replies

BeforeAndAfter · 04/07/2011 23:31

Sorry this is so long - I have lurked on the threads of Solost and WisedUpWoman (and others), in total admiration at the honesty, courage and determination laid out there not to mention the incredible advice (and wicked humour) provided by the MN crew. I know that I will really need the support of you lovely ladies over the coming weeks.

Like many of you my life can be divided into two acts: Before Discovery (BD) and After Discovery (AD). Life immediately BD wasn?t quite normal but wasn?t too far off. After 15 years together, the last six of which have been married, I thought we were just going through one of those distant, stressed phases, where a passionate love life was a distant memory due to DH?s redundancy, my exams, life etc. I now know otherwise and with that knowledge all of those little niggling signs that were there all fall into place and become obvious ? duh ? . How could I have missed the signs?

I am by no means daft but I had not put 2 and 2 together and reached 4, I was at about 3.25. I had figured out who OW was going to be but I truly thought it was budding as opposed to being in full bloom. My strategy BD had been to invite her to dinner and head off her attack by making me into a real live human being with feelings (I have never met her) but it turns out that I was way way too late. Discovery took place on 16 March with a bit more detail on 17 March. The affair has been going on since July 2010. YES, that long. In his words it started as the odd shag but since this year has developed into far more where he realised that come what may, all three players would be hurt (ah, such thoughtfulness).

At this point I feel I need to give some more detail about our lifestyle to give more context. We are fortunate enough to have a house in the country and a crash pad in the city, which was used by us both as relief from the commute. Then in August last year we bought our dream home (quasi retirement) somewhere warm, with a view to me giving up work in 2012, when DH?s pension would kick in. I work full-time (I?m 14 years younger than DH), we have no kids but he has two DDs who are now my beloved DSDs, both of whom are at uni.

Following DH?s redundancy in 2008 he found a part-time job and took up a hobby and the hobby is how he met OW. Towards the end of last year I noticed I could do little right and with his increasing enthusiasm for his hobby and his increasing criticism of me I found myself spending more time on my own at the crash pad rather than with DH at the house. Lesson number 1, never leave a man alone, they need constant attention. OW obviously couldn?t believe her luck and she reeled him in big time.

In February I approached DH to say that I felt we had drifted apart and needed to fix things at which point he agreed and, with indecent haste, volunteered that we spend time apart (about six weeks) with no communications so that he ?could think?. I was dumbfounded as being on his own is totally out of character for him (he is a selfish needy person, so a typical man then). He suggested he would go to the dream home for some space to allow his feelings for me to return and strengthen (ho ho). Anyway, I was still scratching my head, trying to figure out who this man was and trying to figure out why he had built a brick wall and wouldn?t let me in. He came back from the dream home and met me as arranged and agreed that we were best friends etc and that we should try and restart our relationship. At that point he was still not himself. A couple of hours later he broke down and dropped the bombshell about OW and the fact it had been going on since July 2010. I asked if he?d taken OW to dream home and he said ?absolutely not? and then I asked if he?d stayed overnight at her place when I was at crash pad and he said ?no?. I also asked the inevitable question about safe sex and was assured they always used protection. The next day I rang a close friend of mine who is a philandering male (please don?t judge me on my friends?) and he told me DH was definitely lying about using protection.

That day I went back to the house, not having been there for some time, in a symbolic ?moving back in with DH? gesture. We had agreed that he would finish with OW that night and be back by a certain time. Two hours after that deadline was up I assumed he was not coming back so I decided to find out the true extent of their relationship. I went into his Skype account (note ladies this IS a criminal act) and there was a whole written conversation between them which talked about him sleeping next to her, their passionate mornings (I?m sparing the graphic detail) and the fact that she couldn?t wait to fly out to see him. What I don?t understand is how another woman (excellent job, educated at top uni, so not dim) could go into my home to steal my DH. Forget the morals about affairs, I just would not go into someone else?s home and abuse it ? it feels like I have been burgled let alone having my husband stolen. BTW philandering male friend told me that men don?t think the same as women about bricks and mortar which oddly enough did help me. Back to Skype, with one password I found out the extent of his lying ? he had stayed overnight with her at her house and he had taken her to my dream home. Anyway, he eventually came home having dumped her and when I showed him what I?d found he confessed. He then told me he could never trust me again (yes, HE could never trust ME again) and changed all his passwords.

So, fast forward over a couple of traumatic months where he finished with her, I finished with him, we pinged back together, they pinged back together etc. Note: at no stage did he finish with me. The main reason for his flipping back and forth was that he refused to give up the hobby so OW was always there, reeling him in. He then properly finished with OW and, at my insistence, gave up the hobby. The only problem is he was thoroughly depressed, clearly grieving the OW and totally self-absorbed ? like a sulking child.

During the last reconciliation it was clear he was still communicating with her and when I was packing my belongings to leave he had an outburst and implored me to stay, confessing that they had been texting and phoning but not e-mailing or seeing each other. I agreed to stay one last time but his behaviour has gone back to being odd so I expect she?s back on the scene. I turned Poirot and found that there had previously been more than texting but the killer for me is that it is clear he really really loves her and is staying with me for financial reasons. Sadly his behaviour supports this so I cannot rationalise that the words were ?just for her?. Also during this period my mental health spiralled downwards and I ended up on anti-depressants, all the time pleading with him to stop the lying and tell me truth, and he just looked me in the eye and lied and lied.

Oh and one final thing on my scenario I have endured the agony of a visit to ?the clinic? and been checked out completely and he has now admitted that they did not use protection as the affair intensified. Additionally, from the start of their affair I have had thrush on and off and felt that I wasn?t ?quite right? down there so again, all of that fell into place once I knew.

I am lucky in that my work colleagues have been AMAZING and carried me through this hell but family only know we?re having problems. I know that even though I am strong tonight over the next day or so I will want to hear him, touch him, smell him and feel his arms around me (although lately hugs were only there when I asked, wtf ?) that's where I hope you MNs will be around to keep me focussed and strong. He's a liar and a cheat and I am too good for him (my current mantra).

Thank you for reading this far.

OP posts:
BeforeAndAfter · 25/08/2011 18:22

That naughty step is getting a tad crowded. I'm worried Dozer might send me there for being a meddling old barren spinster aunt for suggested fixing up a certain ES and DD ... Grin

I'm waiting patiently for my Pilates class, then I shall be hitting the fizz. Come on, come on.

So, here's my latest food for thought. Last night at dinner one of our sales guys told me he always thought my TCH was a naughty boy. My eyebrows positively levitated and I enquired further and he just said he wan't surprised H had had an affair because he always seemed naughty.

Then last week someone I saw who knew H said he wasn't surprised because if H wasn't the centre of attention then he would get bored (he meant this for work, relationships, everything). Of course TCH could never have been the centre of attention while I was studying and working.

So do men see something that we laydeez don't or was I just so fecking blind and stupid? So, the next beau will be wheeled out in front all of my guy friends for approval. Just one "wah wah oops" and he'll be on that naughty step.

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wellthatsdoneit · 25/08/2011 20:17

Glad dinner yesterday was good and you are feeling a little better today. The queue at Disneyland is a good one - you ARE moving in the right direction, even though it's a slog, you WILL get there. I had a shit day yesterday too (for no particular reason) but am feeling brighter today. Must be something in the water.

Wisedupwoman · 27/08/2011 09:43

So do men see something that we laydeez don't or was I just so fecking blind and stupid?

  1. yes I think they do, it's been mainly men who have revealed their true instincts about PTM to me since our split. These have ranged from (at worst and most hurtful) "well, that's just PTM, isn't it?" to "never felt comfortable around him, never knew what angle he was coming from" to "grandiose prick" and "fucked up in a BIG way".
  2. the above means you are most certainly not stupid or blind. You were in love and you were too close to see what other's could see very, very clearly. It's like being on here, when posters illuminate the bloody obvious simply because they have the distance and interpret things differently.

BTW the naughty step is being removed to make way for a platform large enough to accommodate previously devoted wifey's who now no longer swallow shit like that's what they are put on the planet to do - that means you B&A.

BeforeAndAfter · 28/08/2011 10:50

Sorry you've been having a tough time too Wellthat. These good and bad days do ebb and flow, don't they?

So I'm quite surprised as to how I've been feeling over the last few days. I've not wanted company. Not in a maudling sense but just in a normal sense. A few weekends back I did not want to be here alone but for this bank holiday I've just wanted it to be me on my own but in a calm, positive way and I cooked a proper meal yesterday, roast chicken with basil, lemon and garlic chopped finely and pushed under the skin, complete with veggies galore. I've also noticed that I'm sleeping through.

The flat is coming along. I have put up loads of storage and sorted and sorted. I am an expert in IKEA fixings and hollow wall fixings. My new independence drill is the best thing ever!

I'm back at work full-time from next week, a month earlier than originally planned. You may recall that I'd gone down to three days a week to cope with the move and the sorting out but I've done most of the back/head/heart breaking stuff and am ready to get back into the swing of things. Time really does heal, doesn't it?

I live near the Thames (Wisey, just a couple of minutes from the wobbly bridge!) so I think I might head out on to Southbank for a jog in a mo because, miracle of miracles, it's not raining out there.

OP posts:
BeforeAndAfter · 28/08/2011 11:01

Saff I wanted to come back on something you said on DrFay's thread:

I notice things I never did before, I talk to more people

And I too am talking to strangers; in shops, the coffee shop, poeple I'm next to on the train. The other day somone bumped into me and instead of giving them what for which the old me would have done, we had a little laugh and joke.

I find I'm walking along the street with a smile on my face because I'm thinking of something that makes me laugh or I'm just feeling good and guess what? People smile back. I nearly picked up a bloke on the tube the other because I was smiling away. How unheard of is that? A "smiler" on the tube.

In my old life I was a scowler, the person who would be told "cheer up, it might never happen". So I'm happy to be a smiler, I can tell you. As long as I don't start to look slightly mad ...

OP posts:
drfayray · 28/08/2011 11:18

I am so happy to read that you are doing so well B&A.

You sound so much happier. Peaceful and calm. Being alone can have many positives. I know I am finding that.

And I think going back to work full time will be a great thing. I find working full time a bit stressful but ok. In fact I like being so busy.

And interesting comments from Saff that is for sure: we are engaging with the world again, with smiles and good cheer.

Says a lot for how we were before...

Take care.

XXX

BeforeAndAfter · 28/08/2011 12:16

So I've been for my little run. Just 20 minutes but it was a FIRST. One of those "things to do" that I'd written in my lovely notebook that I've always wanted to do for ME; run along Southbank and over the wobbly bridge. I loved it.

Do you know what H would have said? "Well, how long will that last?" "Well, H, it doesn't matter if I don't go for a run again until the next time I feel like it but life sure is better without you constantly sucking the joie de vivre out of me with your laziness and permanent inertia."

I've realised that being around H was like having my own personal Dementor hovering near me all the time.

OP posts:
Wisedupwoman · 28/08/2011 14:26

B&A I was on the wobbly bridge when I met up with LBM!!!!

Next time I'm up I'm going to look out for fit woman, earphones in, struttin' her stuff along the Southbank whilst behind her men are bumping into lamp posts and falling in the Thames as they look back and pinch themselves Wink.

Oh that'll be you then.

BeforeAndAfter · 28/08/2011 14:55

Aw, I luff you Wisey Blush

Just made 12 cup cakes. Hmmm, baking for one ain't good for the hips.

It may be that that famous bridge won't be the only wobbly thing around here soon. Grin

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Wisedupwoman · 28/08/2011 19:26

Arf at B&A.

Well you'll just have to do even more running then!

BeforeAndAfter · 29/08/2011 10:52

I have posted honestly about the ebbs and flows of starting on a life of singledom in my mid-40s while coping with the aftermath of TCH and OW and I have truly relished and drunk up all of the responses and support that everyone has been so kind to post. And so I believe that the next chapter may be starting and I will share this with you, despite the risk of the odd tut tut.

I went to the 80s party last night (not Friday) and ... just got home ... Shock

Let's just say I didn't get much sleep and a very luscious bicep was involved. I'm seeing the bicep again on Wednesday night. We're talking scrumptious. I don't have his number (but he has mine) as I don't intend to be too clingy etc. But I can tell you I really enjoyed myself last night IYSWIM.

Last night was a bit like my cupcakes - naughty but oh so nice. Wink

OP posts:
Wisedupwoman · 29/08/2011 11:38

So it's true then, God really is a DJ!

Well done you!!!!!!!! And lucky, lucky bicep man. Grin

wiseoldowl · 30/08/2011 20:17

What no posts??

Well done you.... it's because we're all so in awe of how far you've come & maybe just a teensy bit jealous that we're not there yet!!

BeforeAndAfter · 30/08/2011 21:43

Thank you Owly; may I call you that?

For me this thread feels like my intensely personal science project, where I have to diligently write down not only the methodology of the practical experiment but also all of the reactions that I observe. Maybe I am my own Frankinstein.

I decided to share Bicep Man with you all, yes, I think I'll call him that (or I could call him Marathon Man as he runs marathons all over the world ... London, Chicago, New York, Cannes is coming up) because I expect that there will be emotional fall out from this and I am curious to see how this all unfolds in terms of my behaviour and reactions.

Plus who knows if Bicep Man will show up tomorrow? I'm on a whole new learning curve here.

I can think of no better way of learning about myself than here on MN because, yes, I could keep a diary and read it back, but it is your insight, views and gentle reprimands which make the learning process so complete. And this really is a learning process for me as you all contribute different views that I do not (or will not) see.

And I can assure you that I have never done anything like this in my life before so this is all new to me and today I have bought my first ever packet of (not 3, but 12 ... talk about optimistic) this morning in anticipation of, erm, I was going to say good times to come, but that?s a bit inuendo-ey isn?t it? Oh well, ... Grin

My therapist is also back from his holiday so I shall him see on Thursday for the first time in a couple of weeks and will have to confess all so I expect him to tell me off for self-medicating, as he calls it. Bollocks to that I say.

Now that H is back from his 3-week holiday with OW I hope that the divorce can move apace but because we have so much to argue over I expect it shall take a year or so to hammer out.

All in all I expect that my emotions over the next few months will be as volatile as the financial markets look likely to be.

Anyway, my personal achievement for today is that I did my first ever Bikram yoga class. I have only ever done a couple of yoga classes and one of the guys at works is addicted to Bikram so I went with him and I survived - 1.5 hours of yoga in 40 degrees heat. One of the best things I have ever done. The high afterwards is utterly incredible. Almost better than chocolate, definitely better than sex. Wink

OP posts:
Dozer · 30/08/2011 23:15

Hiya, just read whole thread and it's amazing. You sound fab.

Have nothing to offer except nosyness, so will mainly lurk, but must say that I do not like your ex at all Angry. He sounds beyond self-absorbed - cold and cruel. Please don't waver in escaping him.

Bicep man sounds fun for quick fling, but (prudish aunt tone) unsuitable for a relationship (imo people who do that much running tend to be quite selfish!)

Totally not the main point, but how many dream homes did you have, three? A country one, London pad near the river, and one abroad? (am inappropriately envious). Must be hard to give up all that, know material things aren't meant to matter, but can't be easy. But reckon of the three, London is the best place to be! Let him stew in the overgrown weeds of the muddy countryside garden or get pickled in the sun abroad (he will no doubt be wrinkly).

The naughty step is not a suitable place for women such as you, wisey, saffy et al, it's only for toddlers like my dd1! We need a MN hall of mirrors, where you strut through in those killer shoes and all-seeing and icy MN eyes will look hard at the (mis)deeds in question and decide whether they indicate progress, justifiable mischief or are, sadly, unreasonable (over to AIBU for those deeds).

The paintings deed, for example, was a good'un, but bet you can get up to more!

drfayray · 31/08/2011 00:34

Oowa B&A as they say round these here parts...

But I am envious. And very admiring of you..but you knew that hey? Wink.

I agree about using MN as a means of recording events, feelings et al as they unfold. I find my own thread very useful for the same reasons.

You sound great! Positive and cheeful.

Take care and ummmWink Wink.

XX

BeforeAndAfter · 31/08/2011 00:53

Hi Dozer

I'm a follower of your great input on Wisey's and Saff's threads so it's a thrill to welcome you to this thread and thank you so much for your kind remarks.

H is cold and cruel but the one thing that keeps me sane about H is that he wasn't cruel to me at all (at least not as I saw it, nor others I think) before last year, before OW. He's always been selfish but I was able to live with that as I'm quite selfish too so I just thought we were well matched IYSWIM.

I agree with you that Bicep Man is definitely not long-term material but do you know, I'm not sure I'm interested in anything too committed. Obviously time may change that but for now I fancy a bit of ego-boosting.

One of the things I've realised is that H hadn't complimented me for a long long time. It's fair to say I'm a "good catch" (sorry, I don't mean to blow my own trumpet here) but I could be in full Liz Hurley mode (OK, that bit's wishful thinking!) and H wouldn't see me as a red-blooded attractive woman, just good ol' B&A. Familiarity certainly bred his contempt.

Do you know the really sad thing? I hadn't noticed the compliments stop. I hadn't noticed the positive strokes stop. We were just stuck in THAT rut like everyone else but I thought we were special, somehow. No we weren't special yet by thinking we were special I was probably taking him for granted too. I'm not blaming myself here, just stating fact.

This is why I love MN. You guys really make me think.

OP posts:
Dozer · 31/08/2011 06:37

Thanks B&A, will keep up with your thread, am sure good things lie ahead for you.

Maybe he WAS good to you before last year, but stuff like the garden (making you do all the work) doesn't sound great. On wisey's thread, someone (saffy or anniegetyourgun I think) said that perhaps in the past all was well 'cos wisey loved PTM and stroked his ego etc, and PTM loved himself! They said it much better than that though.

Sounds like you got some positive strokes from bicep man.....

Although marathon runners do not generally have good bums - too skinny and hollow! Guess even the superfit can't have it all!

ameliagrey · 31/08/2011 08:36

B&A you seem to be doing really well. However, take with a pinch of salt the character assissination of your almost Ex.

The people who condemn him and say he was always a "naughty" boy may be saying what they think you want to hear, or need to hear at this point in time.
It also gives them the high moral ground, as they then appear to be "right".

If I were the OW I'd have run for the hills- simply because your H appears to be leaving a perfectly good marriage for no reason. If you are really sure that there were no cracks before he met her, then yes, he is a fool.

I know you might find it helpful to try to understand why he did this, but at the same time, it is wasted energy which you could be putting into you. There is no logic to emotions- sadly, affairs happen, people leave, and it is devastating. But you seem young, highly educated, and you will meet someone else.

If you can reach a stage where you are indifferent to him that would be better.

If you are having counselling, they may have talked to you about stages of loss- as if someone has died- but here it is your marriage that has died.

The first reaction is disbelief, followed by anger, then grief etc etc- look it up.

Hope it gets better.

ameliagrey · 31/08/2011 08:39

Stages of loss for you.

manchesterpsychotherapy.net/stages-of-grief-and-grieving/

Wisedupwoman · 31/08/2011 19:05

I'm familiar with that model. Can't remember the author's name but she talks about the stages and how we move back and forth sometimes between all of them but not always, and sometimes in the space of a few hours.

It fits for me and my experience. But you can still pick up the pieces at the same time, that's what surprised me. So if you're getting a bit of well deserved attention, B&A I think it's fine - actually for me it's worked wonders and helped me realise I don't actually need validation from a bloke any more.

In short, I grew up.

BeforeAndAfter · 31/08/2011 20:09

Well here's yet another lesson for me. Bicep Man cancelled by text two hours before the allotted meeting time ... with a lame excuse.

So how does that make me feel? Slightly disappointed but that's all. I was fizzing for a good night.

I had decided not to take his number but, do you know, that made me feel a bit vulnerable. So I think next time (if I decide there is one) then I would take his number.

Still I did have a lorra lorra fun getting to this point.

OP posts:
BeforeAndAfter · 31/08/2011 20:47

Thank you for the information Amelia it?s really interesting to read through.

My therapist thinks I am in denial and running too fast through my recovery as I am not sobbing inconsolably in his therapy room. He has told me that when compared to other women at the same stage as me post-affair I am unusual in terms of my composure.

I explained to my therapist that I don?t see my hurt and grieving as starting from the point at which I left (4 July) but from the point of Discovery (16 March). TBH the date I left is really when it started getting easier because I only had to worry about me; the boundaries were clear and I had not lived with any clarity for months because of TCH?s lies. As Saff said so beautifully I was able to treat myself as I would my best friend.

Thinking about this again I still maintain that my hardest days were with H between March and end-June and during that time I WAS detaching, I WAS looking at him and thinking, one day, when I?m ready mate, I?m going, you lying shit.

OP posts:
Wisedupwoman · 31/08/2011 20:47

His loss. But I am angry with him. What a lazy way to cancel.

If he texts you again to make another date, what are you going to say?

As all good boys scouts say - Be Prepared!

Dozer · 31/08/2011 20:50

Go to another 80s night and pull the DJ!

Swipe left for the next trending thread