Is this domestic violence?

[isthisDV]

Please be gentle with me.

My 25 yr old son still lives at home with me and DH. He is looking for a flat in a city nearby but will not consider renting more locally to us due to commuting costs on top of rental costs. He is not paying us anything. I wanted him to, but DH said if he could save it would make it quicker for him to leave . My suggestion was that he contributed to chores instead. DS ignores me asking and DH never asks or follows through.

DS and me have always argued but it's not getting any better.

When we row, usually over me not having the kind of food in the house he wants, ( yeah, I know) he becomes abusive. Yesterday he ate a sticky toffee pudding for breakfast ( had a friend staying over), fish cakes for lunch ( bought for him) and at 4pm started moaning there was "nothing to eat" in house. ( cupboards full of beans, pasta, pasta sauces, eggs etc etc.) and dinner due at 7pm anyway.

He slammed the kitchen door in my face and would not let me in ( he's 12 stone and athletic- does weights- I am 8 st.) he then belittles me saying I am a fool etc etc.

On other occasions he has followed me round the house when i try to walk away from arguments and sticks his foot in the doorway so I can't close it on him, or he intentionally fills the doorway with his bulk so I have to squeeze past him, or ask him to move.

He is then very good at trying to drive a wedge between me and DH by saying "She ( that's me) said xyz...isn't she a fool etc etc." And he simply denies his part in any rows saying it was me who started them, me being unrreasonable etc etc.

DH tells him he's in the wrong, but 2 hours later they are chatting like old mates and I am still sitting fuming or crying upstairs.

I have asked DH numerous times to give DS an ultimatum to leave and live anywhere. He refuses saying it is unworkable in practice- if he gives a deadline and DS has not found anywhere- then what? He will not put him out on the streets. I don't want that either but I can't carry on like this .

I can't see the wood for the trees but my over riding feeling is that DH is not giving me the support he should.

I'd have his bags packed. He is an adult, there is no excuse for behaviour like that. It's not like he is a hormonal teenager.

Your Dh sounds like a prat too. He should be supporting you and having serious words with your son.

stuff waiting for dh to ask him to leave, you need to do it now. Your son knows you are intimidated by him, and nobody should be made to feel like that in their own home. Domestic violence is more than physical abuse, and your son is being abusive. There are organisations that can help you get him out of the house, but can't think at the top of my head - i'm sure google will throw up a couple. Once your son has gone, you and your DH can start to rebuild your relationship.

That's ridiculous from a man of his age. Your dh ought to be giving your son what for, packing his bags and throwing him out. If this is the way he treats you and gets away with it. I pity his future partners. I hope he moves out quick but dare say that won't change his behavoiur.

Your over riding feeling is spot on!
Aside from being appalled at your ds treating you like this, I'm appalled at your dh letting him. You are being intimidated from every angle.
I'd be tempted to chuck them both out tbh.
On a practical level I can't offer any useful advice, I'm sure someone will be along in a minute. I do hope you get this sorted quickly x

I agree but how can I make him leave? He wants to leave but he has not found the type of flat or the location he wants. I have said he should be prepared to reach a compromise and rent somewhere- anywhere- for 6 months.

DH thinks he has serious words with DS. BUT I point out that they cannot be that serious, or worry him enough, if DS continues to behave as he does- he obviously thinks he has chance after chance. He has had loads of yellow cards but never the red one. each tme the boundaries get pushed further and nothing changes for him.

I don't know if I can ever re build things with DH- long history there- but i feel no respect for him , just disappointment that indirectly, he is making me suffer.

I made the point to DS that I pitied his future partners- Ds (very bright, masters degrees etc) says "This is not about my attitude to women, it's how iI feel about you."
FFS.

Has he actually saved anything?

And yes, it's domestic abuse.

I'd ask your son to go, and possibly send dh with him, as he's not supporting you when you feel unsafe in your own home.

I'm afraid that I would tell him to get out in 14 days. I presume that he's working full time and can therefore rent a room somewhere, or a studio flat.

At the end of the 14 days, pack his bags and leave them outside the door.

Change the locks.

I am horrified at your son's behaviour and your dh's spinelessness in dealing with it.

He has £9K saved. he owes us £13K for student loans. We funded his masters.

Yes this is domestic abuse. You need to let your dh know how this is making you feel. I know it's prob very easy for us to say 'just tell him to leave' when in reality it is a harder to do.
It must be difficult treating him like an adult when he behaving like a spoilt child.
Was he abusive as a teenager?

This maybe an odd question but would DH's behaviour count as Unreasonable Behaviour in divorce?

Oh right, he's got the money then. He's no excuse for not going. Do as Mumble suggests. You have the right to live in peace in your own home.

Poor you for being in such a horrible situation, it must be heartbreaking that DS treats you like this. You absolutely CAN make him leave, he is a grown up. Just pack his bags and take his key from him. Don`t allow him to make you uncomfortable/unsafe in your own home. What a massive lack of respect from DS and DH. Please take control, and put him out. He is a bully, and yes, its domestic abuse.

I would suggest that you go to counselling with your dh, where you can have mediation to discuss the situation, and agree a strategy to follow through together; either him backing you up in the house, or arranging together for your son to leave. I can't see how you could make your son leave without your dh's help, as surely he would just refuse to go whilst continuing to deride you? Counselling would also help you to deal with your ongoing feelings for your dh. You need to work together to sort this out. I really feel for you, I can't imagine how soul-destroying it must be to feel so bullied by your own child.

cosy- he has always been like this. Part of it is my fault- short fuse etc etc- but he had ADHD and made his sister's life terrible when she was here, constantly tormenting her out of jealousy. he refuses to acknowledge any part in it all saying I have ruined his childhood and was horrible to him.

"This is not about my attitude to women, it's how I feel about you."
He's said that (and behaved as he has) and still expects to be allowed to live at home??
Your son's behaviour is of course a problem, but the main difficulty is the failure of your partner to fully get behind you. I think it's him that you need to be coming down on to get him fully behind you on this. Unfortunately I think you are going to need to get tough to show your partner just how drastic this all is.
What an awful situation - I feel for you. Best wishes.

The other option I am considering is leaving myself- renting somewhere until it's all done with.

do you want to split with your dh.....2 issues here it seems

and if you told your DH that if DS does not leave then they will both be leaving what would he say?

its the boudaries as you say that are the issue here. you need to reasert them. but wih such a bully you will need help.

I may want to split with DH because I feel that over the years he has not supported me and contributed hugely to how DS is today, as an adult. I feel I have lost my son, and DH's behaviour has compounded that, by siding with him- or not making him toe the line enough. It makes me very very sad and I am sitting here crying.

If you're considering divorce and leaving the marital home over the situation at home, have you told your dh? If not, maybe it would shake him up enough to stand up to your son.

If you've already said but it makes no difference, then have a chat to CAB or a solicitor and get some advice about what claims you have on the assets, so you're in a strong position and know what your rights are.

Talk to your DH - he may not realise how bad you are feeling and that it's pushing you to the point of possibly leaving.

And before you do anything like leave get legal advice - go and talk to a good family solicitor.

isthisdv it sounds like you know he is not going to change and ae looking for stratergies of how to get him out your house. One of your issues that you need to address is your dh, will he back you up 100% if you do give your son an ultimatum.
Part of domestic abuse is making you feel like you are 'trapped' in a situation and things can't change, when in reality they can you just need the tools to be able to make the changes.

In your position, I would tell him to leave today, that he has overstayed and now becoming abusive, if your intimidated by him I would also contact the police and let them know the situation and if possible for them to escort him from your house.
And if your dh didn't like it, well he knows where the door is too.

I have told DH many times. last night I told him that I could not take it any more and it was making me ill- I have a condition that flares under stress.

I saw a solicitor 2 years ago which is when DS first came back, and the rows/intimidation began. She said I would get 50/50 and maybe some financial support short term. I am self employed and 50s, so finding a job is not going to be easy- and part of me thinks why should I? I like what I do and I earn about £20K but it's not regular.

I have savings but Dh eanrs 80% of what we have.