Is this domestic violence?

[isthisDV]

Please be gentle with me.

My 25 yr old son still lives at home with me and DH. He is looking for a flat in a city nearby but will not consider renting more locally to us due to commuting costs on top of rental costs. He is not paying us anything. I wanted him to, but DH said if he could save it would make it quicker for him to leave . My suggestion was that he contributed to chores instead. DS ignores me asking and DH never asks or follows through.

DS and me have always argued but it's not getting any better.

When we row, usually over me not having the kind of food in the house he wants, ( yeah, I know) he becomes abusive. Yesterday he ate a sticky toffee pudding for breakfast ( had a friend staying over), fish cakes for lunch ( bought for him) and at 4pm started moaning there was "nothing to eat" in house. ( cupboards full of beans, pasta, pasta sauces, eggs etc etc.) and dinner due at 7pm anyway.

He slammed the kitchen door in my face and would not let me in ( he's 12 stone and athletic- does weights- I am 8 st.) he then belittles me saying I am a fool etc etc.

On other occasions he has followed me round the house when i try to walk away from arguments and sticks his foot in the doorway so I can't close it on him, or he intentionally fills the doorway with his bulk so I have to squeeze past him, or ask him to move.

He is then very good at trying to drive a wedge between me and DH by saying "She ( that's me) said xyz...isn't she a fool etc etc." And he simply denies his part in any rows saying it was me who started them, me being unrreasonable etc etc.

DH tells him he's in the wrong, but 2 hours later they are chatting like old mates and I am still sitting fuming or crying upstairs.

I have asked DH numerous times to give DS an ultimatum to leave and live anywhere. He refuses saying it is unworkable in practice- if he gives a deadline and DS has not found anywhere- then what? He will not put him out on the streets. I don't want that either but I can't carry on like this .

I can't see the wood for the trees but my over riding feeling is that DH is not giving me the support he should.

I'd get another consultation, possibly with a different solicitor, just so you're fully up to date.

What did your dh say when you told him you're at the end of your tether and feeling ill with it?

I threatened DS yesterday with calling the police when he slammed the door in my face.

He said in his cocky way, go ahead- your word against mine- can't prove anything ...etc etc.

He's right though, isn't he? I can't.

On a daily basis I have asked DH to badger him about helping in the house- the deal was if he didn't pay anything for his rent here, he would do chores like dishers etc. DH simply forgets or backs down.

I can't see any more whether it's DH who is simply useless, or DS taking advantage of that.

And yes, I feel totally trapped.

DS told DH that if he was forced out or put on the streets he would never speak to us/DH again. That's why DH backs down.

This is so so awful, we are a normal middle class, family, all with degrees and iIfeel it's like something off an inner city sink estate. Sorry that sounds so snobby but it's not how I imagined motherhood or marriage.

buzz he said he was too and he was going to divorce me.

I would say a huge amount of this wretched situation is your H's fault. I think he has been treating you with contempt for years and has brought DS up to despise women. Your H simply doesn't care how abusive DS is to you, or he would be taking action. I think consulting a solicitor and then moving out and leaving them to it is probably your best option. So sorry you are having to put up with this.

With 9K in savings, he's scarcely going to be down and out in the streets, is he?

It sounds pretty dire if your dh responded like that. Defo get a good lawyer.

Jesus- what a situation. Speak to DH and tell him that its crunch time- he has to back you up in this scenario. Ask him if he honestly believes that DS behaviour is respectful and if he does then you shall have to seriously think about your future together. As for Ds- pack his backs and kick him out! He has 9 grand and i'm sure he won't starve. You probably had a family at his age so he's more than capable of looking after himself! The reason why he continues to do this is because he can- there are no consequences to him behaving like an animal. He'll just have to compromise on location like most of us do when finding a flat. He's bloody lucky to have had the support in order to save up the money in the first place.
Go get bags and pack his stuff..get a locksmith to change the locks and he can sleep on someones sofa for a few nights till he gets himself sorted!

YOU NEED TO LOOK AFTER YOURSELF! make the step and think of you for a change..not dh, ds, you! Its you thats suffering in this situation!!

Big Cuddle!

And what Springchicken says. That he won't stand up for you suggests he doesn't care or respect you at all and probably is the cause of your son's disrespect in turn.

He won't "never speak to you again" thats just a threat- what a brat!

Thanks everyone. If you knew my DH you would see him like everyone does as a really nice person. But he doesn't do anger- or if he does it's not often enough and he can't even manufacture it when needed.

SGB son says it's only me he hates- not all women.

I am not really defending him, I just want you to know that he is really upset too but for whatever reason he can't find the right words, or the strength of emotion to deal with DS. Does that make sense?
he does go adn talk to him when these evenets have happened, but he doesn't give him ulitmatums or inany way make DS feel that their relationship is at risk.

After last night's row, DH was happy to loan Ds his (very nice) car.
DH say "Well it's safer than his banger and I'd rather he took it."

I then say "But what kind of message is that giving him that you can do him that favour, after the way he spoke to me?"

Is it me? I feel I am going mad as it's only me at home seeing it like this.

You are being blackmailed here on an emotional basis by both your spineless H and your son. I would seriously consider your future life with your H as it may now be untenable.

Unfortunately I am not suprised by any of this as apart from a few details my MIL is living this pitiful type existance as well and with similar results (i.e her H backs down and does nothing; both parents are afraid of him and his size advantage over them).

I would agree with the comment that your son is doing this because he can. He sounds spoilt, enabled (why was his masters degree paid for by you both) and entitled; he sounds not too disssimilar to his Dad actually.

But he bullied his sister as well, so it's not just you - there's something wrong with him.

You're not going mad.

Is your dh afraid of him?

Attila I would agree with the comment that your son is doing this because he can. He sounds spoilt, enabled (why was his masters degree paid for by you both) and entitled;

I have used all of those words to DH. He agrees but nothing changes. We paid for his masters because we thought it was a good, supportive, thing to do. He had no money for it. We put it on our mortgage.

I can only keep reiterating that DH is a very gentle, laid back person. He has a very good job managing people and is renowned for his ability to calm troubles at work. He means well and he too is upset by all of this.

I suppose the just does not have a very forceful personality. For whatever reason, whatever he says to DS does not make any difference.

I suppose what I want him to do is give DS a month to find somewhere. It need not be in the city he is looking, it could be down the road.

What do you think of the way DH forgets rwos etc so quickly? There have been so many occasions when DS has behaved very badly towards me, then 3 hrs later DH is loaning him his car, picking him up from a night out etc.

i think it's appalling but as it's only me saying this I am beginning to wonder if iIam wrong and vindictive.

The best piece of advice my mother gave me, is to always look at how a future partner treats his mother, because that is how he will treat you.
Your son, unless he changes massively will be abusive to women. It is not just you. Maybe he will be okay whilst he can put a woman on a pedestal, but when he sees the reality, it will deteriorate.
If you call the police they will listen (if they are any good at all), after all how much does it take to make a mother call the police on her own son?

I would suggest talking to women's aid, and getting some advice.

buzz I don't think DH is afraid of him physically but I think he is afraid of the emotional blackmail and losing their relationship- which makes me think he'd rather lose me. (Or at least he could, but seems incapable of growing a pair and saying whatever need to be said to DS) Which is what is happening.

Out of interest, what should DH say to him?

I think what he says is "You should not treat your mum like this. You have to leave. I want you to leave."

He must have said it 100s times. No result.

This is an awful situation.
If I were you, I would cut my losses, move out and leave them both to it.
Your son is a pig, and your husband a wimp.
You deserve far better than this.
Go to your solicitor, pack your bags and find somewhere else to live.

You are not wrong and vindictive. You are not overreacting, you are not being too harsh, you have given your son everything and helped him through his life and education. You are a good mother. It is your son who is abusive and violent and he knows he can get away with it and that your husband will do nothing. He won't stop until the day either you or he leave. You can't go on like this- you deserve to be safe and happy and not under the threat of physical and psychological abuse.

I know this is a terribly difficult situation but I think you need to consider calling the police about what has happened because your husband isn't going to help you, he isn't going to stop your son abusing you and he's giving into the threats. Neither of them are good for you right now.

Others may have a better idea of what you should and should not do in this sort of situation but part of me feels like they both need to leave. If you kick your son out your husband sounds like he will just let him back in.

If them leaving isn't possible I'd agree with SixtyFootDoll and say leave yourself. Get yourself somewhere safe.

agree with sixty foot -get out and leave them to it, file for divorce and get 50% of assets. if H wants to live with Ds - well so be it.

do have partiuclar attachment to your home?

is there any reason why you cannot go rent a nice small place locally for a six month tenancy, while you get things in motion ?

neither your H or your Ds will do anything while they both think you will jsut stay there accepting everything.

if they wont go (or if DS wont go) then you have to . see a solicitor

your h might be nice etc and a "good manager" elsewhere but his behaviour (in not backing you up) is wholly unreasonable

Thanks ladies.
I do have an attachment to my home simply as we have lived here for over 15 years, it's a nice home in a lovely semi-rural location, and I have nice neighbours. Also, I work from home and have the facilites to see clients here- which I may not in a smaller place, so the income I have would drop.

Since posting I have phoned 1 estate agents about a house along the road- but it's not available yet.

Yes this is domestic violence. You should not have to put up with this sort of behaviour from either your ds or dh.

Don't listen to ds's threats and emotional blackmail, he is an adult and knows exactly what to say for maximum effect.

I would tell your husband what is going to happen (not ask him) then get a locksmith in to change the locks and pack up all of ds's stuff, everything while he is out.

Then I would ring the police and tell them about ds's abusive behaviour and inform them of your intentions and let them know that you think he may react violently.

Then send him a text telling him that he is no longer welcome in YOUR house due to his appalling attitude and that he can collect his stuff and get out.

If he turns up and kicks off CALL THE POLICE! If you do he either has to do as he's told and collect his stuff quietly, or get arrested.

You are the only person who can change the status quo here as your dh sounds useless. I would give him the ultimatum of either supporting you or also getting out.

You CAN do this and I'm so sorry that you are in this crap situation. I would also contact Womens Aid and get an appointment with a solicitor.

Hi,

re your comment to me:-

"What do you think of the way DH forgets rwos etc so quickly? There have been so many occasions when DS has behaved very badly towards me, then 3 hrs later DH is loaning him his car, picking him up from a night out etc".

My MIL does similar re her son; its to my mind denial of the situation, she likes putting a gloss over the cracks in the foundations.

Your DH is afraid of his son and so will always back down; its all part of the dysfunctional dynamic that is going on within your home and has gone on within it for years. I assume that your daughter/his sister wants no part of this family life now.

In my case both my FIL and MIL are to blame for the way their son has turned out; they pandered to him and she smothered and excused him. They as well as BIL himself made him this way. My BIL behaves in a very similar way towards his mother and has primarily blamed her for all his woes in life. FIL is the bystander who acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life (perhaps like your own H). BIL conveniently forgets that he is the primary architect of his own troubles here.

Your son is a brat, I'm pretty sure your husbands responsible for that by allowing/enabling the horrible creature.

As for your husband, he is a selfish coward. How dare he allow this situation.

Any decent man would unceremoniously turf out this ungrateful, abusive parasite of a son you've got. With no notice. Instead of being punished for his outrageous behaviour, your son is being rewarded.

I would pack my stuff and leave the pair of them to it. It won't be long before your son turns on his father when you (his current punchbag) is gone. By the sounds of things the more your husbands mollifys the disgraceful brat the more entitled and obnoxious he becomes.

Your son is now 25; my BIL is now in his late 40s and is going nowhere. He also does nothing around the home and pays no rent. DO not end up like my ILs.

You would not put up with such crap from a lodger and your son is a bloody great cuckoo in the nest as well as someone who pays no rent and gets away with doing so. Your son needs to go asap for his own sake as well as yours because this whole situation will end up getting a whole lot worse otherwise. Your son has continued to take advantage of you both throughout this whole sorry episode.

Paying for his masters degree was a poor decision that should never have been agreed (that was enabling, btw did he insist to you that he needs a masters degree?) to but hindsight is a wonderful thing. He has not thanked you for doing this and likely owes you thousands of pounds; money that you will not likely see again.

Is it possible though that DH simply doesn't get the gravity of the situation and lacks empathy ?

I didn't give my own family any trouble as a teenager and left home at 21 anyway. However, if there were the usual teenage rows etc. I know one parent would have stuck up for the other one by saying things like "I am not doing XYZ for you until you start treating your mum/dad differently...".

and they would have stuck to it.

Here, DH just lets it go.

Part of me wonders if I am wrong and should not want to jeopardise the relationship between DH/DS, and should fight my own battles with DS alone.

The other thing is, a good friend who knows the situation thinks that because DH has been so laid-back & whimpish etc for years over DS, and it has caused rows between us in front of DS, then DS sides with his dad and tries to create a united front against me. I am seen as the horrible one. My friend says that biggest mistake I have made was to allow DS over hear my criticisms of DH, and he has come to his dad's "protection". When DS was a teen I used to try to get DH to talk to him , DS saw this as me trying to set DH against him- and hated me for trying to control his dad's behaviour.

Does this make any sense?