Is this domestic violence?

[isthisDV]

Please be gentle with me.

My 25 yr old son still lives at home with me and DH. He is looking for a flat in a city nearby but will not consider renting more locally to us due to commuting costs on top of rental costs. He is not paying us anything. I wanted him to, but DH said if he could save it would make it quicker for him to leave . My suggestion was that he contributed to chores instead. DS ignores me asking and DH never asks or follows through.

DS and me have always argued but it's not getting any better.

When we row, usually over me not having the kind of food in the house he wants, ( yeah, I know) he becomes abusive. Yesterday he ate a sticky toffee pudding for breakfast ( had a friend staying over), fish cakes for lunch ( bought for him) and at 4pm started moaning there was "nothing to eat" in house. ( cupboards full of beans, pasta, pasta sauces, eggs etc etc.) and dinner due at 7pm anyway.

He slammed the kitchen door in my face and would not let me in ( he's 12 stone and athletic- does weights- I am 8 st.) he then belittles me saying I am a fool etc etc.

On other occasions he has followed me round the house when i try to walk away from arguments and sticks his foot in the doorway so I can't close it on him, or he intentionally fills the doorway with his bulk so I have to squeeze past him, or ask him to move.

He is then very good at trying to drive a wedge between me and DH by saying "She ( that's me) said xyz...isn't she a fool etc etc." And he simply denies his part in any rows saying it was me who started them, me being unrreasonable etc etc.

DH tells him he's in the wrong, but 2 hours later they are chatting like old mates and I am still sitting fuming or crying upstairs.

I have asked DH numerous times to give DS an ultimatum to leave and live anywhere. He refuses saying it is unworkable in practice- if he gives a deadline and DS has not found anywhere- then what? He will not put him out on the streets. I don't want that either but I can't carry on like this .

I can't see the wood for the trees but my over riding feeling is that DH is not giving me the support he should.

I wouldn't bother tring to analyse where it went wrong...
Just move forward, your DH and DS are not going to change.

attila- no he didn't insist- but in the type of work he does it is more or less mandatory. we did it to help his job prospects. The arrangement was that once he was working, he would pay is by DD once a month until it was paid off.

He has only had a "proper" job for 6 months - before that he has short term contacting work.

I still though think that he should have and be paying something- on principle, even if it was only £50 a month, or less.

As usual, I have pushed DH to talk to him and set this up with the banks but he avoids it saying DS needs to save to move out. (The idea was/is that his savings will bridge the gap between his earnings and living costs in the short term.)

I feel I am the only one with any "moral standards" to use a horrible phrase.

I think you're beating your head against a brick wall, isthisDV. You're tying yourself in knots looking into minute details of jobs and rent etc, and also asking why your DH and DS are the way they are.

Stop. Breathe. Look at the situation for what it is in the here and now:

• Your DS is abusive to you.
• Your DH won't back you up and is threatening to divorce you.
• You have told them numerous times how you feel, and what you want, and they are ignoring you. Worse, they are intimidating (DS) and threatening (DH) you.
• Neither is showing any remorse or taking any responsibility.

Time for you to take responsibility for yourself. You can't change them, or make them do anything.

So: what are you going to do?

Does he have girlfriends or friends of either sex? Do they ever come round at witness what he's like? I've a feeling the answer's no. His peers would be horrified at his sense of entitlement and treatment of you.

What's your relationship with your daughter like? Could you stay with her for a while and make some plans?

I'm in my 50's too OP and was feeling a little sorry for myself earlier. Not any more. I'm single and skint with a son with severe ASD and a falling down house but I'm so much better off than you. I'm in the North East if you're anywhere near. Can you get some RL support from the friend you mentioned?

I'm so, so ANGRY for you. Don't EVER think you're the one being unreasonable.

tall- he rarely has friends here, though he did have a friend stay over at the w/e but I was out a lot. From what he has said, he has told his friends I am horrible.

My relationship with my DD is very good. However, no chance of living with her- she shares a small house with 3 others, 120 miles away and is just more or less out of uni looking for a job.

I do have savings that could tide me over easily for a year without working,- they are in my name , though legally it is 50% DH's.

I could rent locally or I could move away- possibly nearer DD- and just rent somewhere pretty for 6 months, but I would be all alone- and might miss my friends. I could still do some work based at home though not as much as here.

what do you reckon?

Sounds like a good plan. You need to get yourself out of there and into a safe place. Your son said he hates you, you wrote that in your post of 12:03:43. It's more than reasonable to avoid someone who hates you and is abusive to you.

You have savings that could tide you over for a year without working, plus you would still be able to work a bit. That's a good start in getting yourself on a new path.

Apologies, just skimming and running, but you mentioned this DS lifting weights.

Does he do steroids by any chance? that brings out aggression, and spots I believe.

Kick your abusive boy out, once and for all and if DH objects, he can go too.

This treatment of you by your DS, and by his failure to stand up for you, by DH is appalling.

I feel so sorry for you and so sorry for your daughter. If she has made a decision to live in another city and you think she'll stay there for several years at least, I would be very tempted to move there.

You will only need a two bedroomed flat or house - one bedroom could be used for clients who need to visit. (Makes me wonder what your job is, now!) Can you work at a distance from your clients?

Your husband is watching you get bullied and because he's not the one who's being picked on, he feels totally OK about it. He should be protecting you and refusing to have anything to do with your son unless he can treat you with respect. His lack of care is appalling.

Please - the money doesn't mean anything in the end. The house doesn't mean anything, either. Get yourself away from this abusive relationship and file for divorce.

Oh and when your husband contacts you after a year or so of abuse (for it will turn towards him, no doubt about it) then remember how he didn't back you up, won't you? You don't need people like that in your life.

I don't think it's enough to make your son leave home. Not only will it be a very difficult thing to do, causing you tremendous pain and anxiety at the very least, but it's your husband who is equally to blame.

The only thing to do is to go yourself. Remove yourself from the house. Don't stay in the neighbourhood as you'll remain embroiled in it all.

Is there somewhere you've always wanted to live? How does a completely fresh start sound? There are Mumsnetters from all over the country who would love to make you feel at home if you move to their town! I think everyone can identify with your situation.

Apols if this is wide of the mark but did you post something months ago under a different name asking if you were a toxic mother?

Hmmm sympathys op you are right in the middle of a long term strategy of abuse cycle here.
Not good especially in your own home with your own son and dh.
I would

1. Consult a solicitor about assets and legalities
2. Seek support form womens aid as they are the experts in helping women deal with their emotions and practicalities with abused women. Sorry but that is what you are and you know, heatbreaking though it is.
3. Make plans to move out, OR move them both out. If your work involves use of the house I'm sure the solicitor will be able to sort a good deal out for you to stay there due to facilitating earning your own income after divorce.

Take a deep breath and ring womens aid now tonight and tell them they will hold your hand and help you think your thoughts in order.

Agree contacting women's aid for support is a really good idea.
Good luck.

I really don't see why you should be the one moving out. You're a joint owner of the house, your ds is there on a licence (informal permission). You are perfectly within your rights to put his bags on the doorstep and change the locks.

Your son has to leave. You know it, we know it, he knows it and, I expect, your H knows it too. What's stopping him? All the things you and your H provide for him. He's got everything he wants and is allowed to behave disgracefully.

Tell your H that unless your son leaves he will never grow up. Is that what your H wants for his son?

Starting from now, do not do anything for your son : Do not cook meals for him, do not wash his clothes, do not clean up after him, do not buy food for him. If you have to, just buy what you need for yourself each day.

If he gets nasty with you, tell him he knows where the door is and, yes, call the police if needs be.

I think she should move out because she puts herself in control of what happens, then. Obviously, morally she should not go.

If she tells them both to go, what will happen? Her DH will try to change her mind. Her son won't go anyway. Then what happens if her DH leaves and her son stays?

I think the OP needs to make an impact now. She needs to say she will not tolerate it, pack her bags and go. How lucky she is that money is not an issue at the moment. Seriously, OP, by this weekend I'd be gone, if I were you.

Don't let your son push you out of your home. For whatever reason his behaviour towards you won't change, and if it means you have to throw both him AND your husband out, then so be it.

Sit down and have a serious talk with your husband, perhaps write down everything you want to say to him (a lot of what you have posted would help) to try and make him see it from your point of view. Do you think your relationship with him would improve if your son wasn't living there? Is the relationship salvagable?

TELL your husband that you will give your son a month, maybe 6 weeks to find somewhere to live and that you will help him look etc but that he must move out now he is settled in a job. Tell him that you must have a united front and you're not doing this to be unreasonable but that your life has become a living hell, try and get through to him, because it will only work if you put up a united front. Both sit down with your son and tell him that you will help him flat hunt and that he needs to move out by XX date.

The important bit is making sure he moves out, don't let him call your bluff. He's an adult for god's sake, he can survive on his own with his wages and savings.

If your husband doesn't back you up in this, it's time for them both to go. Maybe they could rent somewhere together!

I'm only 5 years older than your son for god's sake, I'm so sorry he's such a shit to you!

I would wait till he's gone to work, then get the locks changed and put his stuff in the garden. He can get his freeloading arse down to the housing department and present himself as homeless, and then they will put him in a B & B.
I'm watching this thread with interest, having a 23 year old idle workshy son who I've told he is leaving home as soon as possible. I get the sponging and laziness but not the abuse, so I do feel very sad that you are in this vile situation with no support from your husband.
I hope you can find a solution. Stay strong.

I am very grateful for all your posts.

None of you have said anything that I don't know or have not said to DH.

He knows DS has to go and mentions it almost daily.

Where we differ is that DS is looking for a particular location as a priority and within his budget, and DH seems to support him in this.

This is where DH and I differ. DS could have moved out locally a few months back. He could have been living on his own for 6 months and still looked for a place in his ideal location ( in a city 35 miles away.)

DS wants to go too- he is not here for the fun of it.

I don't do his washing or anything- all I do is cook 1 meal a day for 3 of us.

I do buy food "just for him" at times but after yesterday I said I was stopping that and catering for just one main meal- and he has to buy anything else he wants.

Re. putting them both out- how can I? DH is a joint owner and can't be forced to go.

Even if he went, which he might be persuaded to, it still leaves DS here.

I don't know if our marriage is salvageable as this has gone on for years- me feeling that DH was too "soft". There is huge resentment in me. We are polar opposites in some ways. (We were "personality typed" as part of our work- we are complete opposites which may be why I was attracted to him at first but now it drives me nuts.)

Part of me feels I just need some time away though I am conscious I would be using what are legally "joint funds." albeit in my name.

Part of me feels "why should I lose/leave the family home?" because of these 2 selfish dickheads.

Today I have written DH along, unemotional letter which I shall give him to read.

I have looked at places to rent locally and also further afield in picturesque places.

I just feel so sad that my marriage and parenthood has come to this.

He's not going to go easily, when he's paying no rent and doing no chores!

Getting him out could take years and he will make her suffer every step of the way.

The OP needs to be decisive and remove herself, telling them both that they are abusive and disrespectful. Then she should visit a solicitor pronto.

I am alarmed to hear you would only get 50% of assets, considering you only earn £20k, and your husband earns £80k. I assume that your earning power is diminished by time off work for childcare/part time work to fit in with the children etc. I thought the asset split would take that into account. ( I admit to a vested interest here).

You would get more than 50% of the capital because your earnings are lower therefore your mortgage capacity is lower, therefore you get a larger chunk of capital to end up with the same value property as your husband.

As a divorce lawyer I strongly recommend that you do not move out. You have far more control if you stay in the house.

I'm not in any way suggesting that your marriage is over, but you do need to chuck your son out. He has £9k in savings so will have to go into privately rented accom.

I would also question steroid use. Your son sounds similar to my brother who is also aggressive, lift weights and treats our entire family with contempt - sadly my parents pay for him and put up with his crap. I know for a fact he injects steroids but my parents ignore this. I find him frightening and worry a lot that he will go crazy one day and hurt someone. Either way your DH's behaviour is unacceptable and I would look to leave if I were you.

Don't leave, as then you can never return. Make your son leave, then give it a while to see how your relationship with DS changes. It may get better.

If you go you'll lose your home/stability/some income/your partner/close locality to friends.

Make your son leave.

Sorry, i meant to say, make your son leave, then give it a while to see how your relationship with DP changes. It might get better.