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Original poster

Marriage v. cohabitation

139 replies

Tatties · 18/11/2005 18:29

DP & I do not want to get married - big wedding, dressing up, etc.. just not our thing. We are as in love with each other as any couple ever could be, commitment is not an issue, but to us marriage just does not symbolise that. Why can't people get it? Your views please

OP posts:
Nightynight · 19/11/2005 18:23

(Im not specially bothered about a wedding party though)

janeybops · 19/11/2005 18:26

Oh but Nighty the wedding party was fab!!!

Nightynight · 19/11/2005 18:32

janey - lol. I love parties! just mean that I dont necessarily associate them with marriage. iyswim.
I did the registry office, 2 strangers as witnesses thing, because dx hates fests, and my dear mother was trying to bully me not to marry him, by refusing a wedding party. She actually thought that that might change my mind!

janeybops · 19/11/2005 18:35

we had the opposite. 80 to wedding and more to party in evening. It was so much fun, but if you ask dh he says it was stressful!!!!

Eaney · 19/11/2005 20:48

Do you think a man is more committed if he marries you than if he lives with you has children with you and shares a Mortgage with you. DP and I have been together for 17 years have 2 kids and have a house together. Do you think i am deluding my self if I think he is committed. What is it about marriage that equalls committment.

My Uncle is dieing in a Hospice at the moment and his partner of 35 years spends every waking moment with him and will be devastated when he dies yet my Mum thinks she has the right to question their relationship.

I think there are sound reasons to get married and I may get round to it one day nut don't ever question people's commitment.

MrsMiggins · 19/11/2005 20:51

eaney I totally agree

personally I got married cos I am a Christian and wanted to do things right according to my faith (H & I didnt live together before marriage even though I wasnt a virgin Etc)

my H has pissed off and abandoned me & the kids so to him marriage clearly meant nothing

If I am fortunate enough to find someone special again, I will again marry cos thats what I believe in BUT it doesnt mean people are more committed

I am proof

Eaney · 19/11/2005 21:00

I think to some people Marriage does mean something because it just does and this neccessairly affects their thoughts and behaviours after they get married. For some people it means very little and they could marry a dozen people and view themselves in exactly the same light they always did.

I knew someone once who found out her future husband had been unfaithful a year or so earlier, forgave him and proceeded with their wedding. She said that had they been married she would not have forgiven him and they may have split up. I couldn't get my head round this one.

Pruni · 19/11/2005 21:00

Message withdrawn

mazzystar · 19/11/2005 21:01

if you don't want to get married, you really shouldn't.

you def shouldn't get married for financial/legal reasons - write a will instead

if it is just that you don't want the whole wedding circus then you can always sneak off somewhere and do it in secret...much more romantic imo.

ladymuck · 19/11/2005 21:20

"Do you think a man is more committed if he marries you than if he lives with you has children with you and shares a Mortgage with you."

For most men, getting married is a potentially bigger commitment that just moving in and having kids, especially if his partner may one day want to cease working to look after children. The law is becoming less in favour of marriage, but there is still an incentive for men not to marry.

Sharing a mortgage is not that big a commitment - I've shared a mortgage with girlfriends before meeting dh.

By not getting married you are not making a public statement of your commitment to one another, so it's not surprising that a lot of people (many of whom will have made that public commitment) will wonder as to the level of commitment. As it is a private matter for you, you really shouldn't care what they think.

Nightynight · 19/11/2005 21:29

thank you ladym - I was just going to post the same thing, but youve put it so well, Ive nothing to add!

moondog · 19/11/2005 21:38

I'm married simply because it will make our lives immeasurably easier if something happens to either dh or me.

£60 registry office job seven years ago after nine years together.

I like being married (although I wear no rings,had no posh do and retain my own name). It's a nice feeling. [smile}

Pruni · 19/11/2005 21:47

Message withdrawn

rarrie · 19/11/2005 22:37

Agreed. I got married cause I wanted the white dress and big day - absolutely no other reason! As we lived together before, I knew we were committed and so did not doubt that - but wanted the big day etc tec.

But I think the whole thing about cohabitation, marriage and weddings is full of people's preconceived ideas. People often think when a couple cohabit, its because the man doesn't want to get married, etc but then when you start to get married, you have to face everyon'es preconceived ideas about what makes a wedding... I remember being hacked off with the 'oh its all about the children' thing, when I wanted a child free wedding - SAYS WHO??? I hated being told what the purpose of marraige was all about - surely in a secular marraige, it is a legal commitment and the rest is what the couple make of it?

Anyway, that's a whole different debate, not to be gone into here - but what I'm trying to say is, that I think whatever situation you're in, you have to face other people's preconceived ideas - whether its the reasons why you're not married - what your wedding should be based on - what should happen at your wedding - and when you do get married, everyone starts asking when you're going to have kids! Can you ever win !?!!!!

Eaney · 20/11/2005 12:30

What is the incentive for men not to marry?

'For most men, getting married is a potentially bigger commitment that just moving in and having kids, especially if his partner may one day want to cease working to look after children' Not sure I understand this. Why do you think most men find it a bigger commitment than moving in and having kids. Is this not based on your belief system of what marriage is a means?

And what do you mean about the partner ceasing work.

Someone needs to enlighten me on this.

CliffRichardSucksEggsinHell · 20/11/2005 13:00

Just asked dh his thoughts and he says that some men will not get married whilst they are earning the most money in case it all falls apart and they get taken for half.

He also said that for men, it is the final nail in the coffin for their freedom. Even if you are living with someone, with children, you can still pretend that you are single, you know that it is easier to walk away if things get bad. For them, marriage takes away their freedom.

It's also the show thing, they don't like public declarations or making a fuss.

So there you go, a man's perspective of the downfalls of marriage.

skerriesmum · 20/11/2005 13:26

Eaney
What I took Ladymuck to mean was that fewer men today are prepared to work and support a family while their partner stays home with the kids (but that they are perhaps more likely to do it if they are married.)
Of course mothers have always worked outside the home, but I was lucky that my mum stayed home while my dad worked. Most of my friends' mums were at home too when I was growing up. (This could turn into a very different debate...)

philippat · 20/11/2005 13:28

can we stop making this a male:female thing? And leave it at the highest breadwinner in the partnership? I will agree that as a result of centuries of this, men culturally tend to need more persuasion to marriage but I think this applies to plenty of women too.

doormat · 20/11/2005 13:34

tatties tbh my dh and I only got married for life insurance purposes and all the legal wrangling.

We do love eachother very much but we were happy as we were living together
but
we just needed that little extra security that getting married brought.

skerriesmum · 20/11/2005 13:37

Traditionally a wedding was held so that witnesses to it could then hold the man responsible for the woman ("you can't get out of this now, old boy!") The woman was passed from man (father) to man (husband) as chattel. Of course marriage is no longer about the man owning/buying the woman, but I think this is why some women have a problem with it.

stitch · 20/11/2005 13:46

this discussion has probly moved on a bit since i last posted, but have to reply to this, even though cant stay for long as supposed to be going out in two minutes
starlover said' tatties was just asking why it is that people who aren't married have to put up with people asking why they aren't!
well, i dont know who these people are. i would never bother to ask anyone why they arent married, as it is none of my business. and id like to think i am not that rude.
however
if you cant be bothered to sign a legal contract, then it does show a lack of commitment. the legal contract does not need to have the fanfair of a wedding. but it will mean that you automatically have legal rights as pointed out far more elowuently than me by others here. a legal contract will not make a person stay in a relationship, but it will mean that the financial rights of the other person have some weighting in law. i hope i am saying that correctly.
but i would never dream of buying a house, or a car, or any other business deal without a written legal contract. so why shoul i have children with a man without the same legal protection.
and a man who isnt willing to give you that legal protection in my opinion isnt committing himself as fully as he should.

having said all that, i agree that all marriages/cohabitation are risky. but we can try to do something to protect ourselves.
must dash as my sisters are in the car now, and getting annoyed at me for still typing

stitch · 20/11/2005 13:47

skerries mum, a very christian viewpoint.
in isla, a woman never was, and never will be a chattel

but we mustn confuse islam with the cultural traditions of most muslim peoples nowadays

skerriesmum · 20/11/2005 13:49

True stitch, I'm not aware of islamic tradition. In modern Christian weddings, the dad still "gives" the woman away!

Original poster
Tatties · 20/11/2005 15:38

I think some of the responses here have illustrated my original point quite well actually.

It's nothing to do with 'can't be bothered to sign a contract'. Like I said if it was just a case of signing a contract we'd do it tomorrow. If we got married tomorrow with witnesses off the street and told our family & friends the next day there would be lots of upset people. They we would be upset that they weren't invited to 'our big day' (even though we don't see it like that.) TBH for us it wouldn't be about a celebration/declaration of our love because it's none of anyone's business and we celebrate that in private thank you very much! But if some kind of civil partnership existed (like for gay people) which would give us the same legal rights as a married couple we could do that without a fuss.
I object to that fact that a lot of people really think unmarried couples have not made the 'ultimate commitment'. No, it's just that why would I honour a tradition that came about to keep women (and men) under control, and where the woman was considered a man's property! That has no relevance in my life, but of course protecting myself, my partner and my children if the worst were to happen does. But if we want to do this easily, why do we have to do this within the institution of marriage? An unmarried couple's relationship is not necessarily any less committed, it's just that the concept of 'marriage' to some is just a little bit outdated. It doesn't mean that they wouldn't sign a contract that gives all the same legal rights as married couples.
And why do we assume it's the man that doesn't want to marry? I think it's a bit sexist really. I suppose it is some people's idea of romantic to declare your love publicly, but we know that doesn't guarantee anything. And just because you're not into public announcements, does that mean you love each other any less? And how romantic is it to say, "darling, will you marry me. But just so that if we split up I get half of everything.."

Sorry if I have offended anyone with that but just needed to get it off my chest. I understand that marriage means an awful lot to some and I am not at all questioning that, but please understand that when marriage isn't for everyone it's not at all because we have commitment issues. Indeed some of us would like to make a legal commitment but not under the name of 'marriage'. Phew

OP posts:
zippitippitoes · 20/11/2005 15:41

get married and don't tell anyone, then you have the legal safeguard and no fuss