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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Please respond, don't know what to do about this.

238 replies

marmajam · 10/06/2011 09:44

Namechanged.
It is with a heavy heart that I say the following, but I really need advice.
Things have not been right between dh and myself for a while (no dc's as yet).
I realise that my behaviour has not been exactly great, but I am questioning what happened last night.
Trying to be as neutral as I can.
Dh has been trying to talk to me about the state of our relationship for days, he had a bit too much to drink and sat next to me on sofa. He tried to get me to converse with him, I would not. He kept going on and on. So I raised my right hand (he was to the right of me) as if to say 'enough'. I was in a bit of a temper myself, I admit as I was sick of him going on. He grabbed it and proceeded to hit himself across the face with it, saying' You are hurting me everyday like this'. He then let go of my hand and smashed a glass against his forehead. I just got up and left the room and stayed there until now.
Please I am not out for sensationalism and not a troll.
He has always had a hot temper but has not laid a finger on me before. I have been with him for 14 years. I feel a corner has been turned here. Please help.

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CrapolaDeVille · 11/06/2011 10:49

He is willing to blame you for his own actions.

My DH did the same the other night, he was completely vile to our oldest dc. He said it was because I had wound him up, absolving himself of blame. When I put it back to him that his actions were wrong and the way he treated our dc was fuck all to do with whatever I had done, he should accept responsibility....he kept altering the language. It took me about an hour of shouting convincing until he could see it.

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Pigglesworth · 11/06/2011 10:53

This is just my opinion, but marmajam, you seem to have a lot of problems communicating, which are clear from this thread and also are evident in your reported interactions with your husband. For me it is impossible to work out what is going on here - is your husband a man driven to desperation because his wife refuses to communicate with him? (A very painful thing that cannot be underestimated and CAN drive people to do "crazy", hurtful or overly emotional things, or seek solace elsewhere.) Or are you a woman who refuses to talk to her husband because of the things he has done over time that have chipped away at you/ eroded your self-esteem/ clashed with your preferred way of interacting? There is no way of us knowing as we only have your side of the story but you do have quite an emotionless/ dispassionate way of writing here, and also seem less concerned with the emotional and physical hurt your husband may have experienced and more focused on the impact that his behaviour has on you.

My hypothesis is that you are someone who hates to express negative emotions/ discuss problems, and who prefers to deal with problems by ignoring them/ sweeping them under the carpet (as you said) and hoping that if they are ignored long enough, they will go away. I imagine that if you are put on the spot, you may really struggle to get words out when it comes to being asked to express the way you truly feel about a problem. I also imagine that perhaps you are uncomfortable with displays of strong emotion or physical affection. Your husband on the other hand sounds like a much more verbal, communicative person who needs to talk things out to feel like problems are getting voiced and resolved. Perhaps his tendency to need to talk/ show dramatic emotional displays is something you dislike. Does this sound accurate at all?

I think one thing you really need to concentrate on is your refusal/ inability to communicate regarding problems and the apparent lack of joy you get from life, and ask yourself when these issues started. Is this the way you've always been since at least adolescence (perhaps with fluctuating levels of severity over the course of your life)? Or is this something that's only emerged in your current relationship, or that has been triggered by a negative experience/ event? Is your low mood something that's bothered you for a long time, or do you think it's a distinct episode of depression?

If it is a way you think you've always been, there's nothing WRONG with that - I say this because I am that kind of person myself but I think to a lesser severity. There are MANY people out there who struggle with strong displays of emotion/ physical affection, and who struggle to get the words out when they're expected to communicate about difficult issues. There is a theory out there describing these kinds of people - Masterson describes them as "safety-sensitive" - people who struggle to feel safe in relationships and are constantly trying to strike a balance between being close to others/ having relationships, but not being engulfed by others' emotional needs/ "neediness". A description I found from a Google search:

Safety-sensitive persons have learned that the cost of being connected in a relationship is to abandon one?s sense of self and be swallowed up by the other. On the other hand, the cost of having a sense of self is to be isolated. Since neither is bearable, individuals who are safety-sensitive are constantly seeking a compromise between the two. However the compromise keeps them neither in nor out of relationship and therefore is itself not satisfying. The safety-sensitive individual is ?stuck? in this dilemma.

The extreme form of interacting in this way is schizoid personality disorder - which I am not suggesting you have, this is all about a spectrum of personality traits with SPD being the extreme end of that spectrum - but you may recognise characteristics of this in yourself:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder

Related to this is an avoidant attachment style:
psychology.about.com/od/loveandattraction/ss/attachmentstyle_6.htm

Now again I want to say I am not trying to diagnose/ label you and I may be totally off-base. However, as someone with these traits myself I think if you do have these issues it is important to understand why that's the case, and realise how painful others can find it when you "cut yourself off" from them. I have had to learn to communicate better because I learnt how upsetting it is for others when I just can't get the words out to explain "what's wrong".

It is theorised that people may develop this way of interacting with others due to early experiences with their caregivers - caregivers may have been more disengaged, meaning that the child's needs are frequently not met and the child comes to believe that communicating their needs has no influence on the caregiver (I just paraphrased that from Wikipedia). Does this ring true to you at all?

Now my post may be totally off-base and unhelpful but I thought I would add a different interpretation/ perspective, which after all is what a discussion forum is for! :)

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Pigglesworth · 11/06/2011 10:57

Sorry, I posted that before I read your post of 10:36:50 marmajam and so perhaps again my post is not helpful/ not accurately describing your situation. I totally disagree with your husband's rationalisation of domestic violence, and if you have a gut instinct that he is trying to rationalise his own poor treatment of you, and escalating that poor treatment, then I would advise you to listen to that gut instinct very carefully. Why did he say he thought this about victims of domestic violence? A very bizarre comment on his part.

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babyhammock · 11/06/2011 12:02

So what he is saying is that the dv victim bought it on herself by being selfish and that if she'd been 'kind' it would have never had happened. Angry

OMG He's even got you trying to rationalise it.

Huni you really do need to get out. Have you thought how you could do this? x

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garlicbutter · 11/06/2011 12:11

I agree, marmajam, he's already setting the scene for more overt violence :(

You must be feeling weirdly trapped at the moment, maybe even confused about what is real and what isn't ... I also feel that talking to Womens Aid is the single most useful thing you can do. They've got all the knowledge & experience to help you regain your sense of perspective.

Meanwhile, my advice for when you're at home is to be very, very dull and mousey. Don't initiate conversations, don't accept blame ("I'm sorry you feel like that"), don't argue, don't show any emotions. Be as serene as a swan - while paddling, like a swan, under the surface to observe what's really going on and start planning!

I'm glad you made the doctor's appointment. You sound, understandably, perfectly knackered.

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marmajam · 11/06/2011 15:35

If I come over as dispassionate here it is because I am trying to be factual; my husband said that the victims of dv he knew had one thing in common- i.e. selfishness whereas the 'NON' victims were kind and gentle. Now this is a fact.

Folks, I am trying to be accurate.
Pigglesworth, I am deeply offended by your suggestion that I am nuts. I am not going to show my dh this thread anyway, but your suggestion that I am insane would really give him ammo against me!

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marmajam · 11/06/2011 15:39

garlicbutter, I know you are right, but it is hard.

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dittany · 11/06/2011 15:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

marmajam · 11/06/2011 16:04

dittany, yes, deep down I know I have to leave. It sounds daft, but fearful as I am of him, I am also fearful of what I might do should he start again. I fucking hate him for what he has done to my arm. It still hurts. The bastard.

Oh yes, I can't envisage him hitting me at the moment, but, I am not daft: if you told me 2 years ago that he would have done the things he has now done, I wouldn't believe them, either!

I feel desperately sad. The obstacles are practical ones. Where to live etc. I don't think he will retaliate if I were to leave, but who knows?

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dittany · 11/06/2011 16:11

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Becaroooo · 11/06/2011 16:14

Of course you feel sad...and angry...and hurt and every other feeling in between probably!! And will for some time.

I hope your arm feels better soon
x

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marmajam · 11/06/2011 16:41

Thanks for messages of support. I'm going to start planning my way out of this. I must- MUST- avoid him as much as possible. Go for long walks, whatever it takes.

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midnightservant · 11/06/2011 16:48

Sorry in my earlier post I hadn't taken in that he had hurt you.

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strawberryjelly · 11/06/2011 20:27

OP- isn't it all amtter of degree though? If your DH took your hand and slapped his own face very gently to make the point that your non-communication was hurting him- is not that rather different from you suggesting he did it violently? None of us knows what really happened do we? You have said he was worse for drink, and that he has not been violent ever before except for throwing something.

I have a good friend where both of them through things very often! Dents in their walls prove it. I think you would be surprised at how common this is- but yes, you getting glass in your eye was awful- but again, he didn't mean that to happen I am sure.

Yes, the comment about woman being selfish ending up being hurt is utterly wrong. But he is obviously mad at something. What? have you had counselling or would you try it?

Have you talked to him about any of this?

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strawberryjelly · 11/06/2011 20:28

sorry- typo- throw

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Pigglesworth · 12/06/2011 00:28

Aaargh I wasn't trying to imply that you were "nuts". I noticed you had a detached way of writing earlier in the thread and you said you refused to engage/ communicate with your husband about the difficulties you were having, and it reminded me of my own ways of interacting (and I am not "nuts"), so I tried to be helpful in adding a different idea to the discussion. The links I posted were of extremes, not of what I think you are like. These traits are present in a huge proportion of the population and are not a sign of mental illness (unless in the extreme form). I said numerous times it was only a perspective and may be totally off-base, which it appears that it was, so I apologise and will leave this thread!

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marmajam · 12/06/2011 09:39

I am sorry, pigglesworth, but my 'detachment' here is out of some sense of trying to be factual.

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marmajam · 12/06/2011 10:22

Well yes, taking my hand gently and calmly and gently and calmly hitting his own face would be OK. I'd have no problem with that.
But that is not how it happened. He was drunk, I refused to engage, held up my hand to say 'enough' and he grabbed it (to the point where it still hurts several days later) and slapped himself across face with it. He then let go and smashed glass onto his forehead.
His argument is that if he wished to hurt me, he would have hit me directly with a punch or a kick- this is to put HIS 'side of story' over a bit here.

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dittany · 12/06/2011 11:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 12/06/2011 11:02

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garlicbutter · 12/06/2011 11:20

Whichever way you want to look at it, smashing a glass into your own head is not rational, reasonable or kind.

This is from the Womens Aid site:-

Destructive criticism and verbal abuse: shouting/mocking/accusing/name calling/verbally threatening

Threats: making angry gestures, using physical size to intimidate, shouting you down, destroying your possessions, breaking things, punching walls, wielding a knife or a gun, threatening to kill or harm you and the children.

Denial: saying the abuse doesn't happen, saying you caused the abusive behaviour, being publicly gentle and patient, crying and begging for forgiveness, saying it will never happen again.

Plus, of course, grabbing your arm forcefully is physical violence.

Refuge says:-
If a woman is forced to change her behaviour because she is frightened of her partner then she is being abused.

It is worth telling a partner they're being abusive, because sometimes people can be brought up short by this recognition and instantly stop doing it. You've told him once (?) however, and his response is to belittle you. That's the classic response of an abusive dominator, I'm afraid, and there's no point in telling him any more. In fact, it can make things worse.

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garlicbutter · 12/06/2011 11:26

Pigglesworth - if in doubt, a safe test is to ask "How would you respond if a stranger did this to you?"

Grabbing your arm painfully, whacking himself in the face with it, then smashing glass into his own head? Would you be asking yourself what you'd done wrong ... or reporting him for assault?

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MildlyMadMum · 12/06/2011 11:31

his actions sound to me like a person in huge fear of losing you & desperately trying to understand why he's loosing you...is also sounds like he has tried very hard to do all he can to bring you back to him but has just realised its not worked... Yes, the alcohol may have brought this fear on but that depends how drunk was, only you know that.. or maybe it ws the other way around & the drinking was to medicate the fear & not the other way around... what ever it is ... you are in need of help for yourself & your marriage... you sound just as lost as he does... get help... this is taking a huge toll on both of you

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dittany · 12/06/2011 11:32

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

garlicbutter · 12/06/2011 11:44

Oh, yes, I forgot that part:-

Breaking trust: lying to you, withholding information from you, being jealous, having other relationships, breaking promises and shared agreements.

So far, he's scored 5/10 on the Womens Aid list - and that's only from what OP has shared. She, meanwhile, scores 1/10 if you want to see it that way:-

Disrespect: persistently putting you down in front of other people, not listening or responding when you talk, interrupting your telephone calls, taking money from your purse without asking, refusing to help with childcare or housework.

Hardly six of one, half a dozen of the other, is it?

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