Something I really don't understand about affairs and sexless marriages.

[SpringchickenGoldBrass]

If you don't want sex with your partner, why on earth do you mind if they have sex with someone else? The idea that you are entitled to 'own' someone else's sexuality but make no use of it and prevent them from enjoying it seems so selfish.

Wow maleview, that's a pretty long list of things I have to get right to deserve a physical relationship with my husband

Not having a pop at anyone just giving you an idea of how a man might look at it. We are very different creatures. woman wears horrible dress and asks friend how she looks. Woman says 'great'. Man goes out wearing horrible clothes...asks friend how do I look? "you look a twat now go and get changed"

Sometimes taking advice from people who share the same thoughts and feelings can lead to not finding out the real answers.

There can be many reasons why your dp/dh doesn't desire you. These would be good starting points in my opinion.

1. Depression
2. Control
3. Low libido
4. Low testosterone(Robbie Williams)
5. Anger or resentment
6. Mid life crisis
7. He is having an affair
8. Porn addiction and as a result loss of intimacy
9. Boredom.

If he won't talk or do anything about it then having an affair is an option, hiring an escort is an option or leaving is an option.

If a person in a marriage or long term relationship witholds sex and there is no good reason for it then its a form of abuse. If the 'witholder' won't address it and presuming the other person has tried and tried everything, then whaty seriously do they expect their partner to do? Go without too and possibly waste the best yrs of their life without intimacy.

I struggle to imagine how I could live my life with a person like this. If my dp stopped wanting sex (forever, not short term) I would do my utmost to resolve the situation. If he refused point blank to do anything about it then I would tell him that I would be gone or I would be shagging someone else. I would expect the same if the tables were reversed.

Now I am not so dumb to ever think he would be happy with no sex again, so if my libido disappeared I would get help. I could not bear the thought of him having sex with someone else.

If I stopped minding then that would tell me I didn't love him anymore.

I struggle when I hear people say that they love their spouse but they have no intimacy. And that they will not leave them. Jesus, that's not an equal relationship, its a companionship.

male - you make some interesting points, but for women, (physical) attractiveness IS a major thing - we are conditioned from early in our lives to believe that we HAVE to be attractive to get - and keep- male attention. We are bombarded with this message continually - via the media, technology and peer pressure.

I wonder how many of us feel "undeserving" of sex with our partners because we feel under pressure to look a certain way - and then withhold sex because we feel we don't measure up?

Its sad that women are bombarded that way. What most men find most attractive about a woman is how confident she is not what she looks like. Confidence in a woman is a major turn on for a man.

I am sure that physical attraction is important to younger men more than older men. I am in my 40's and value other things much more highly than what someone looks like.

To answer your 'why stay' question Maleview it's because we have a young child and I feel shallow for wanting to leave just because of No sex. Plus I'd probably have a tiring and difficult life and probably still no sex. I married wanting all the usual things somebody wants - love, sex, children, friendship..

And one of those things was later denied permanently. Now I'm struggling to turn back the clock.

Fair enough but that stance could lead to a very unhappy life. Children can flourish outside of a marriage as long as both parties manage to stay amicable.

male - glad you feel so liberated after your split!! For most of us though, an unhappy relationship is perhaps a compromise we are willing to make to ensure that others' lives are as pleasant as possible. Many of us think little of our own happiness, and put others first as a matter of principle. Others of us feel so trapped in our perceptions of our lack of attractiveness that we feel unable to contemplate other relationships.

It's sad that we feel like this, yes, but this is the message that continually permeates women's thoughts. We do our best to scrub up, undergo expensive and sometimes dangerous surgery and sometimes starve in an attempt to make men desire us.

And still it's not enough!!

It's interesting to read how people do feel about these issues. Like you say I think that women do put others happiness before their own especially where children are involved. There is a danger though that it never gets better, the children grow up and you have nothing in common with your dh/dp. Not only that, you can actually resent them. My mum is a good example of this.

Whils my split did "liberate" me, it wasn't without years of issues like many posting on here have said. Leaving the house for the last time and saying goodbye to a 4 year old son that I totally adored was the most heartbreaking time of my life. I was off work sick for 2 weeks and didn't get out of bed for the first week. My ex was threatening to take my boy 100 miles away and set up home with the other man. It didnt come off as you have already read. The early years were tough but my ex and me built a good relationship over access etc and Ten years later we share access and get on very well. Both are remarried and have new children.

Life can get better but sometimes you have to make it better. I do understand why people find it difficult though especially when you still love the dh/dp despite what they are putting you through!

I do like Mumsnet - I have had some really great replies (and I reply too) but every time I go on this part I say never again. Online dating, affairs, sex problems etc The same old stuff. I am sorry for those who are abused etc Also I do think it is good that people have somewhere to let off steam but I think it all boils down to selfishness in the end ; it seems that society has lost "the give" and it is all about "take" .

PTBD: What society has lost, or is losing, slowly but steadily, is that level of male privilege which expected women to do everything to please a man and accept everything he did to her short of outright maiming. And it's always better to get out of a crap relationship rather than remain in it for years and years, becoming more and more bitter and ground down.

What i do not get is:

If you have sex with other people why bother being married? How do you make the people you are having sex with feel - used, not important enough to have a relationship with? What do you get out of it?

The time you spend with other people is less time you spend building a relationship and bond with your partner and your children. How is that helpful? If you are both working and shagging other people who is looking after your kids? What if you get an STI or get someone else pg?

I think its about 1 in 3 marrages that end in devoice - so if people cant keep one relationship going how the hell can they make mulitple going?

I have nothing agenst open relationships i just dont see the point in it personally. I would perfer to invest my time in one good relationship that a little bit of time on lots.

I also dont think a relationship should be all about looks or sex but it should be about love respect and affection.

All at 29yo i do relise "old" people still have sex and i hope to be one of them

absolutelynotfabulous Sat 04-Jun-11 19:19:41
male - glad you feel so liberated after your split!! For most of us though, an unhappy relationship is perhaps a compromise we are willing to make to ensure that others' lives are as pleasant as possible. Many of us think little of our own happiness, and put others first as a matter of principle. Others of us feel so trapped in our perceptions of our lack of attractiveness that we feel unable to contemplate other relationships.

It's sad that we feel like this, yes, but this is the message that continually permeates women's thoughts. We do our best to scrub up, undergo expensive and sometimes dangerous surgery and sometimes starve in an attempt to make men desire us.

And still it's not enough!!

I find this so upsetting. Its so wrong on meny levels. I think women should have love and respect for themselves and not give it willingly to another person. I believe happyness comes from within and that no one has the ability to take it way from you. It makes me so upset to think that women believe that above

LBB:well sometimes people marry for practical/financial reasons, because they have or want to have DC together. And the business of not making other people feel 'used' or slighted is not that dificult, it just takes a bit of effort and good manners - and picking playmates who are not desperate for a committed relationship, of course - they either have a primary commitment of their own or really aren't interested in more than the occasional shag.

I think the major point that's been missed by a few posters here is that most people in this situation don't choose to be in it. You have no idea how much I've wished things were different. I want to be wanted by my husband more than you can imagine. If I could change myself to not want sex so that I can remain happy in this relationship I'd do it in a heartbeat.

For the record I'm not seeking sex elsewhere but it would be hard to resist if someone nice did pay me attention I'm sure.

Im not out there spending time on multiple relationships and risking STIs as LBB you might imply but rather doing my best in a difficult situation that you've somehow painted as grubby. Quite ironic when I'm practically a born again virgin at this point :( I just want to set the record straight as I'm sure there's a number of posters in my situation, doing their best regardless of how and if they're getting their needs met. Oh, and the thing about potentially getting pregnant by another man? A little heartless to those of us worrying how our own husbands might help us to accomplish the task!

Almost- why don't you strat your own thread?

I am going to be blunt- sorry.

I don't think your wife loves you. If she did, she would be willing to address this issue and seek help.

Whatever her emotional hang ups are- she is putting them first.

I'm afraid i think you should end your marriage before your self respect is eroded any further.

Just another line though first- women avoid sex for several reasons: emotional distance from their partner,
lack of sex drive per se,
underlying resentment ( ie he doesn't help around the house, he isn't intersted in me, he just wants sex),
physical or health issues,
OR something about the man that turns them off- bad breath, horrrid teeth, BO, poor sexual technique or selfishness in bed.

if you feel that none of these except perhaps the first apply to you, then maybe you need a very serious talk about separating.

AlmostGivenUp, my story is almost exactly the same as yours (except competing to a high level in sport - does shopping count? :)).

My husband does say he loves me and in some ways I believe him but it's unfortunately not enough. There are obviously emotional issues driving the problem but he's buried his head in the sand and the resentment that he refuses to address this just grows. Having said all of that it's a huge leap to end a marriage or start any other relationship, especially when children are involved. I'm not saying that's not the right solution, just that I'm not that far along the path yet, although I'm obviously on it.

itstimeand almost: your postings resonate with many here. I'm in the same boat too - affectionless, sexless, relationship that seems to be dead in the water. I have no idea what I've done to cause this state of affairs, made worse by the fact that I seem unable to discuss it with my OH. Perhaps it's because I'm older? Perhaps he doesn't respect me because I no longer work in a well-paid job?

I have no choice but to assume that he no longer fancies me, and his indifference has left me feeling like a worthless freak. I no longer have any self-respect, and worry incessantly about my appearance. I have been brought so low that I am unable to contemplate leaving, and perhaps this is what he wants. I feel that at my age I should be reasonably secure in a relationship, and with enough confidence in myself to face the future with optimism. But I don't feel this way, and this is why I, along with many others, stay.

So sad for you fedup.

Big big hug for you fedup

We have to learn to love ourselves and that's needs to come from within. Then we will have the strength to make the right decisions. :)

Thank you too SGB

Have sent you a PM strawberry