He doesn't want any more children

[wonderinn]

Prior to marrying my DH was very clear that he only intended to have one child with me. This was due to him having 2 children already (as I had no children). That was all well and good until I had my DD 18 months ago. I can't seem to get over the idea of just having one child and as DH is not prepared to change his mind, I don't know how I can overcome these feelings. Any one else been in this situation ? Also as I am 39, the biological clock is ticking loud and clear.

I know what you mean glastocat. Where is the love for the dh, whos child she so desperately wants, that she can leave him to have baby with a n other? It's not his child so much as any child.

You can't force him to have another child. It would be wrong and unfair. He has 3 children, he thinks that is enough. He wants presumably to do the right thing by all his existing children.

The problem is that as women we cant have it all.

We cant spend our 20s and early 30s being footloose and fancy free or not addressing our commitment issues or whatever then expect to meet Mr Right in time to have babies in our late 30s and for it all to go without a hitch.

The OP is 39. Any fertility expert will tell you that a woman's fertility falls off a cliff at the end of her thirties. The chances are she has already left it too late (I know there are exceptions). At her age the fact that she was able to get pregnant 2 years ago is no indicator that she will be able to get pregnant now.

All the choices that the OP made in her earlier life have lead to this point. Very soon now OP will be in her forties. I guess that the OP's DH is there already. Perhaps he feels that he has done his fair share of baby rearing. I'm in my early 40s and there is no way that I would want to go back to broken nights, perhaps OP's DH feels the same.

Perhaps rather than pursuing the idea of having another baby the OP would be better spending some time and effort in addressing her feelings perhaps alone, perhaps with her DH, through some counselling sessions.

A belated message to PffttheMagicDragon...

I know my views on this are in the minority on Mumsnet, but I'm afraid you lost the argument at the point of "Do Fuck Off". Hardly an Oxford Debating Society level argument is it? Nor something you commonly hear on Question Time? Here I was thinking we were all having a grown up discussion.

Do you tell everyone you disagree with to fuck off? You must be lovely.

GnomedePlume, think you are making too many assumptions about the OP - those are stereotypical woman-bashing Daily Mail arguments.

OK, I think people are being misogynist (as per usual) here. It's not unreasonable to change your mind about wanting another child any more than it's unreasonable for men to change their mind about being in love- and look how many posts on here are about men saying 'love you but not in love with you, bye now' (and everyone says that is their right). Obviously it would be stupid to deliberately misuse contraception, but I don't think anyone is obliged to take medication just to ensure someone else has consequence-free sex- if he's that fussed, he can get a damn vasectomy! But that aside, OP, I think you would be justified in leaving the relationship over this- just as much as someone would be justified in leaving a relationship where they wanted children but their partner didn't. It might not be ideal for your existing child, but you being miserable for the rest of your life is hardly good for them either! I don't understand why anyone would pressure you to stay with someone who disagreed on such a fundamental part of your relationship, it seems mad. Since you are quite old, you would probably need to find a sperm donor if you can afford that rather than faffing around trying to find another relationship before you are 40, but really that's a perfectly reasonable way to have a child (more reasonable than lying about missing pills, I think). I feel (based on experiences my friends have had) that a lot of men are controlling to the point of being abusive about not wanting pregnancies, and really all women can do in response is say 'ok, fine, I'll do it without you' (just as you would leave someone who was controlling in any other way)- luckily this is now possible as it's not so socially penalised to be a single parent as it used to be.

"Suggesting that someone get pregnant without their partner's consent is just awful."

Having sex IS consent to potential pregnancy- no contraception is 100% reliable ffs. It's stupid to be all 'oh how can this have happened it is completely unprecedented' about someone getting pregnant when you have been having sex repeatedly- yes, contraception reduces the chance of that, but if the guy hasn't had a vasectomy, then he isn't taking responsibility for contraception himself so he's willingly putting the matter into the OP's hands. Calling it non-consensual is frankly offensive to people who have genuinely experienced acts against their consent (usually women).

Oh Butterbur...at what point did I claim to be debating on a level with the Oxford Debating Society? Is that it? The end of your argument? I curse and that's the only point worth mentioning?

How about your outdated and frankly misogynistic views? The idea that a woman is only her ability to have children is just revolting. The idea of a woman's biological need and how it outstrips everything else...yuck! As if a woman can only be complete when she has had children, as if she could never be happy again if she doesn't manage to have that extra child?

It takes two people to have a child, and they should both be equally happy with that decision. You cannot just write off one half of a couple and say that their views are inconsequential.

Oh, come on Wibbly, you're taking a statistical element of probability and conflating it into an excuse for deliberate deception. Yes, within the bounds of normal contraception there is always a possibility of conception, and both partners need to appreciate that. It is NOT the same as advising the OP to miss pills, i.e. deliberately sabotage her contraception and up the probabilities in her 'favour'.

And as a staunch feminist I would like to remind you that we fought many battles to ensure the availability of widespread contraception and (in some but not all countries) termination services, just so that women would not be forced into enduring unwanted pregnancies. To try and turn that back against men by attempting to remove the principle of consent from them is entirely retrograde.

I have sympathy for the poster's feelings, but abandoning contraception against his wishes as some are suggesting is not the answer. I do however agree that if he feels so strongly about this he should take contraception into his own hands. Having said that, if the OP tells him this is the solution she is offering, based on the information above, the OP's partner will most likely arrange a vasectomy asap, thus removing any possibility for further discussion.

And that's what this situation needs.

I didn't say - or even hint, that a woman is only her ability to have children, nor that she is only complete when she has children. I strongly disagree with that sentiment, and feel strongly that NOT having children is an equally valid choice for a woman. The operative word here is choice - her choice.

What I do believe, from my experience with friends and relatives who have been in this situation, is that for some women, the desire for another child can be all consuming. Failure to fulfil this need can lead to lifelong sadness. I have not met a man for whom this is the case, although I am happy to accept that there may be some.

I agree with you April, it was a cruel deal he got her to agree to.

MN has some weird father fetish though and the general consensus is that life needs to be lived in such a way that men are always happy and women always sacrificing what they want just to make sure that men are happy.

So the OP will be shouted at for having the cheek to change her mind about a deal she couldn't have understood, or for considering leaving the kind of selifh prick who would have put her in this (entirely foreseeable) situation.

It's entirely fair for this to be a dealbreaker. A kind, loving man would not be holding you to this deal. He sounds utterly horrible.

"A cruel deal"/"utterly horrible"/"selfish prick"?

Oh rubbish! The man has as much right to not want more kids as OP has to want more. OP has the options others have outlined.

And of course OP could have understood "the deal" before she became a mother, or at least know enough to make an informed decision to remain in the relationship and have her DC. She's changed her mind, fair enough, but how is he selfish to consider himself and others (importantly his 3 DC) apart from her?

he set out his boundaries from the get go, you knew the score, you accepted it

you cant now say Oh I Didnt Know, I Feel Differently etc etc - maybe you do, but thats not really his problem. He doesnt feel differently

if someone tricked me into having a child, I would know i couldnt trust them and would leave immediately. What gives someone the right to trick someone else into becoming a parent - thats the lowest of the low

A kind loving man is not just and kind loving husband. He is also a kind, loving father. Perhaps he feels that 3 is the most children he can be the best possible father to. The children and any potential further children are more important than the OP in this situation.

"selfish prick" "utterly horrible" - what a lot of bollocks!

A father who ignores the needs of his existing dcs and goes on to have 'many' children with the new woman, to the detriment of the existing children, that could be called selfish, or horrible.

Or a woman who puts her 'urge' for a baby before the love she has for her partner, or the stablity of her existing child, that could be called selfish or horrible.

To be honest we don't know either way what the views of the man are in this situation, and in any case the first post said "I don't know how I can overcome these feelings. Any one else been in this situation ?" Perhaps we could all be more helpful by giving the OP positive ways to approach this. Either ways to understand and accept the limitations on her family size, or ways in which she could understand her dp's resistance and concerns and help to alleviate them, so that whatever the outcome, they can come to a joint agreement about the way forward, in a way which supports and helps them both and doesn't involve trickery, deceipt, or break-up

Indeed venusandmars, consider the potential post from his ex wife "my ex has gone on to father a 4th child and as a result can't support the children he already has"

We don't know why wonderinn's husband doesnt want any more children really. There could be any number of reasons and he is just as entitled to not want them as she is to want them.

She is with in her rights to leave him, she is also with in her rights to not use contraception. It is her body. But she has a moral obligation to tell him she isn't using contraception. Deception of one's partner is not part of marriage. We don't deceive those we love.

Why is it the detriment of his existing children if he has more?

Do you think people who have a lot of children are bad parents?

Or just if they have multiple children with a new partner?

We don't deceive those we love, and nor to we hold them to bargains they made without the full facts.

If he's a good man he'll give this more thought. Thinking that the OP's sadness and regret is "not his problem" is the attitude of a deeply selfish individual. Of course just because some man-worshipper on MN uses those words doesn't mean he's that much of a dick.

No, i don't think people who have lots of children are bad parents. But if they have more children than they can afford then I would say they were. We don't know from wonderinn's posts if her DH can afford an 4th child... however, we have a good income and have 1 child each from previous marriages and we couldnt afford another 1, let alone 2.

"man-worshipper" Ha hardly !! I don't know if you were directing that at me, possibly not. But as-if!

Bringing someone in to the world is a huge responsibility - he has already done this 3 times... If he doesnt have the energy/ funds/ love to give to a 4th one then it would be far more selfish to have the child.

I beleive that every person should be in charge of their own reproduction. I don't beleive that a woman or man has any more rights than the other.

I don't think he is holding her a bargain. I don't think the conversation went "I will marry you but only if you promise to only ever ask me for 1 child" It was probably more a case of "I want to marry you but I want to forwarn you that i am not going to want any more than 1 more child becaus eof x, y, z so if you are not happy with that you are free to marry someone else"

Your husband's sperm is not your property!!

"We don't deceive those we love, and nor to we hold them to bargains they made without the full facts" True I suppose. But two wrongs don't make a right do they... If she is nt happy with how her husband is treatingher that is one thing but you cant say - what he's doing is immoral so im ging to do something immoral too!

spidookly, the thing is we just don't know what the situation is here. The man presumably has some reasons why he doesn't want more than 3 children, but WE don't know what they are, so how can we possible say that he is being a selfish prick or utterly horrible? We could offer conjecture either way, but we don't know, so why be so vitriolic towards him?

There is nothing good or bad in having lots of children, or in having few, or none.

Op said her dh is not prepared to change his mind, he may have valid, not-selfish reason for that, or he may not. It wasn't OP's dh who said it's not his problem - that was other posters on here.

Man-worshipping? Whaaaaa? What have I missed here?

Note to self: clearly I need to have a shrine set up in the corner with a giant phallus that I can pray to.

I'm terribly sympathetic to the OP's plight, and am just hopeful that it can be resolved by discussion. I wish I had more useful advice to give. My own broodiness has been helped greatly by volunteering with teenagers, if that's any help.

Come back and tell us why he doesnt want more children OP!

My DP made it clear very early on in our relationship that he didnt want anymore children. He has one from a previous marriage. He didnt want the one he had as he didnt feel he had the paternal instinct to reproduce. However, his wife persuaded him and he felt bound to give her what she wanted as it was his husbandly duty. Soon after the first one she began 'begging him' (her words) for another. He said no because he knew he didnt have want it took to be a father to two children.. he then discovered that she was trying to get pregnant and he divorced her.

Luckily for our relationship i don't want children with him either. If I ever have a different partner I would refuse to have children never mind how much he wanted them... would any one tell me I was selfish and a prick for denying a new partner children of his own??

The point being missed here is that in a couple of years' time, for the op, that's it. Finito. If he is determined, that's any chance she has for another child out of the window. He can put his foot down but ultimately, in 10 years' time can change his mind. So the playing fields aren't level however much we might like them to be.

Well life isnt fair on women gwen That is a sad fact. But deliberately bringing children in to the world who arent wanted is not the answer.

It is easy to make assumptions about an OP who deserts her own thread.