My new boyfriend doesn't want to be bothered with my toddler so I have put her in to care.

[TheOriginalFAB]

He said I had to chose so I chose him. Sometimes I have her back but I get fed up after a while and send her away but if someone else shows interest in her I get her back again. When no one else wants her I can't be bothered either.

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I am the toddler.

Can you write the bad stuff down then destroy it? It might make you feel a bit better (armchair psychology here), it certainly helped me once to see things written down.

Don't ever feel bad for posting, thats what we are all here for!!

This is her, isn't it? No empathy, no remorse, no sense of guilt. It's all about her because that is simply how she perceives the world. She cannot perceive it in any other way. Perhaps with a whole lot of therapy she could have, but she won't because there's nothing in it for her. She did not do wrong because there is no "wrong", only "what I want". You will never get through to someone like that.

I think most "normal" people find it very hard to understand that people like this do exist and, scarily, have children. That's why you will so often get crass comments like "Oh but she loves you really" and "you have to forgive your family because they will always be there for you", when your experience proves the opposite. They are assuming you are lying because lying is easy to understand, whereas a total absence of caring about anybody else (especially your own children) is not. I'm not sure whether you should pity them for their lack of understanding or envy them for their comfortable view of the world.

Oh, and

How are you this morning FAB?

oh Fab, how awful.
But it is good that you are talking to us about this pain, and how cruel your mum was to you. Maybe you are ready to start exploring this with a therapist?

I empathize with what you say about being scared of being well, as you will see clearly how much time you have wasted being unwell. This is so profound, Fab. So wise. Dont be scared of that. Be proud of who you are, and have strength.

love to you and to you as a toddler. Really find it hard to get my head round mother's doing this but it's happened to friends of mine albeit they were older. Awful.

So sorry about this Fab.

My delightful half-sister left her 3 children (the youngest 18 mths) in their house on their own for 5 days last summer because her new boyfriend has a court order against him and he mustn't go anywhere near her oldest daughter who is 14. (he smacked her in the face, he is 19, my half-sister is in her 30s) When the social workers found the children, the 5 yr old had been climbing into cupboards to get cereal down for the 18mth old and his shoes were about 4 sizes too small for him. She chose the boyfriend and all 4 of her children (including the one she was pregnant with) are now in care.

She still gets all the access she wants with the children, which sticks in my craw quite frankly, but I presume that once the children are old enough if they don't want her having access to them/their children they will be able to stop it. (I should fucking well hope so)

DNA is a well weird thing when you look at how some people turn out.

Wishing you strength to get through all this. xx

:( FAB . This situation must be so hard to deal with.

My parents were foster carers for young babies when I was small and some came under similar circumstances. Sadly not all of them have managed as positive an outcome as you have made (although I realise it may not always feel that way atm), whether they returned to bm or were adopted.

Fab, anyone with a true heart will be devistated this could happen to anyone. You mention secrets you keep due to bad reactions in the past. Anything that anyone did to you as a child is not your fault. People who react badly or seek to put blame on yourself about what happened when you were a child is too scared to admit what shit some people can do, too terrified to face the real world.

God I wish there was something we could all do to make the nasty stuff disappear and bring the sunshine back for you. You are so amazing and brave just breaking away from what your Mum did and loving your kids. That alone is incredible.

You are not daft for posting this. 1st step in starting to let it out. And as you can see, no one here thinks you are at fault, it's just so bloody cruel you didn't have better adults around you when you grew up, even now they let you down (MIL/Gran).

Bloody tight squeeze Fab. I don't know you of course but I would listen to anyone who wanted to off load this stuff, sitting at a bus stop, in a coffee place and just listen. People need to talk.

FAB I read your story and it makes me so sad. My mother walked out on me & my little borther (aged 11 & 9) for her new boyfriend and a life of alcoholism. When my dad met his new girlfriend and didn't want us, he sent my brother to boarding school and me back to my mum (I was 13). She threw me out on my 16th birthday. When I look at my ds and feel that surge of love, I wonder how my mum could have done that to me.

I thought about it a few months ago and and it really hit me and I cried for my 16 year old self. Especially now as some of my friends have kids that age and I look at them and they are still just children.

At least I was a bit older and had even the tiniest bit of control. You had no control and my heart goes out to you.

Counselling has helped me enormously. It'll never change who I am or my reactions to certain situations as that's a direct result of the way my parents treated me, but it can go some way to making sense of it all and accepting it's not your fault.

Annie - that is a bit scary as I think it does sound like my mother. She used to say she had had a tough life which was worse than mine. She had her parents!

Maryz -I have started writing happy memories down in a book and have done some bad stuff as like homework from the book I am reading.

Bucharest - I am so shocked, upset and angry that social services are still allowing access to children for parents who are basically not good for them. I was like a flipping yo-yo as my mother decided whether she wanted to see me or not/have me live with her. SS said I had an attachment to her so wanted to try but I was attached to the shop keeper if they said hello to me ffs. Just reminded me, she said she wanted me to live with her so her boyfriend's ex said if I lived with them she wanted maintenance for her child with my mother's boyfriend. she chose not to have me live with them.

So she chose her boyfriend and then money over me [shakes head at the incomprehension that someone could do this].

mamalove - I am so sad for your 16 year old self too.

Sorry if I have missed anyone out.

Thanks all.

It has, thank you.

How brave you are to start this thread.

cjel's post stood out for me too - 'it's never too late to be who you should have been'.

It strikes me that that is exactly what you are doing with regards to your own children. Your strength of character is letting you reclaim what you should have had - the knowledge of and enjoyment of the mother-child bond. You didn't get to feel it as a child, but you haven't let that stop you having that amazing opportunity as an adult. You've broken away from the lessons you learned as a child and instead of carrying on the cycle as a poor mother yourself, or choosing to avoid motherhood althogether, your intelligence has let you KNOW (painful though it is) that there's a better path, and you've taken it. You have your own family now that you have a strong and loving relationship with. You are being the loved and loving family member, part of the gang, that you always should have been.

I don't know if that makes sense but it's something that resonates for me too. My life has changed since having my DC, some of the realisations that it's brought are painful, but ultimately I feel joy that I'm 'in the love' if that makes sense to you. That I didn't miss out on it, and didn't let issues from my past shut me off from that amazing experience.

I hope that doesn't sound trite, I can't imagine what you've been through and I really hope you carry on working through this effectively. I'm sure you can, you sound extremely strong.

I am so not strong. I could do more with the kids and be a much better mum. I don't feel part of a gang tbh. I feel like I am on my own. My kids are part of the Fab family by birth but I am only by marriage. The kids take me so much for granted and really don't have a clue or appreciate what I do and I feel that I don't matter as they don't help, does as I ask or even notice what I do a lot of the time. I run around after them too much.

Me too feeling so sorry for your sad deprived childhood, and of course this is going to be with you to a greater or lesser extent through yout life. I would echo what others are saying about seeing a good therapist. It isn't magic and it won't make the pain disappear, but it has a good chance of making it more manageable.

Just thought too I would clarify the position for you about your mother and your children, as you have been given some misleading information on the thread.

The position is that your mother could apply for a Contact Order in respect of your children (S.8 of the Children Act 1989) but she has to get leave (or permission) of the Court before she would be entitled to do so. There would then be an investigation by CAFCASS (Children and Family Court Advisory Service) they are social workers but don't work for social services departments. The assessor would then write a report for the family court, giving a recommendation and the matter would be decided by a judge in the family court. This is private, not public law. Given what happened to you I cannot believe that any social worker would recommend that your mother has contact with the children. However there is the presumption in law that children have the right to contact with their extended family (as some parents just refuse grandparents contact) after a separation or divorce, when the child has a loving relationship with the grandparents and clearly this is unfair.

I would not worry at all if I were you - she probably would not even get leave of the court in the first place. Also the government are stopping legal aid in private law cases, and I am assuming she could not afford to pay a lawyer (very high costs) and would therefore have to represent herself in the family courts. I think it highly unlikely she will do this.

Someone has suggested you try to legally prevent her from seeing the children. There is such a thing as a Prohibitive Steps Order (again S. of the CA89) but this is to request that someone stops doing something if you see what I mean.

I suspect your mother is all sound and fury signifying nothing. Please don't worry but I just thought it was important that you knew the facts.

Fab :( hugs from over here too xxxx

Thank you for that NanaNina. It feels scary but hopefully none of us will hear anything from her again.

Maryz - it does make sense. Sometimes I say to my children "don't you know how much I love you?" when they are feeling different and sometimes they say no. I don't know how to deal with that as it upsets me as I love my children more than life literally as I would be dead now without them.

FAB, I'm a will writer and will happily do freebie wills for you and your dh if it makes things even a tiny bit better

mumblechum1 - thank you so much. That is so kind of you. We have the wills that we made when we were married. Are they still valid now that we have had children and can we add to them if they are? What would be helpful is some guidance as to how we word - keep away from us forever and my children are not to go near the witch woman ever - in a legal and allowed way.

The wills are still valid, however the main issue is to appoint Guardians, with provision for the Guardians' expenses in the extremely unlikely situation that you and your dh both die whilst the children are under 18.

In the Guardianship clause, I can express your wish that your mother has no contact, whether direct or indirect, with the children. As it's obviously a very sensitive issue, I'd recommend that rather than go into huge detail in the will itself, you let me have a letter setting out the facts, and that will be deposited with the Will just on the offchance that she made an application under the Children Act.

If you'd like more info, my email addy is [email protected].

Agree with others about getting therapy.
Especially if you're now depressed - I would have thought it would be one of the conditions of getting any medication?

You know your mother wasn't deserving of you, and she put you through hell.

You need therapy to enable you to break from that part of your life.
You also need to do the legal thing and get an injunction against her having contact.
You could also try to get her not to contact your MIL (who is way out of order btw)

Good luck xxx

FAB - I could be a better mum and do more with DS. Don't think that you're alone in thinking that! However, you love them, you care for them and they have a stable home and I'm sure a stack of happy memories, just think how lucky they are

I told my MIL we have an order that my mother will be arrested if she contacts me again but the reaction from MIL makes me feel like she has done more.

I need to talk to DH about the wills before I do anything but thank you again for the very kind offer.