Conjugal rights in marriage

[kismet1]

Apologies if this is a bit heavy in the morning but I need to ask seomeone... Am I unresaonable to think that it is not on to be groped while asleep? DH thinks its ok but I think I slept better when the kids (now 6 and 4) were waking me every few hours

ROb: I haveposted on this thread and indeed elsewhere about the options avaialbe to a person with a higher libido than his/her partner, but I will air them again.
First, you talk to your partner and listen to what s/he has to say about why s/he wants less sex than you do. Sometimes it might be a simple matter of addressing the fact that the man doesn't do any of the domestic work. This matters.
If you can't come to an agreement of a resonable compromise after that, then you raise the possibility of the high libido partner getting NSA sex elsewhere, if the physical acts of sex are much more important to one partner than the other, and the frequency of sex is the only problem in the relationship.

If nither of these options work then it might be a case of the high libido partner choosing to seek sex outside the relationship but not telling the other person, or the rather more ethical option of ending the relationship.

Unacceptable ways of dealing with libido mismatch are: whining, pestering, threats, sulking, repeated grabbing and finally just jumping on and raping.
No one is entitled to sex. The most people are morally and legaly entitled to WRT sex is to ask for it.

Should domestic work really be used as a trade-off for sex?

Shouldn't the conditions be set before marriage, not after?

How many women use sex as a trap in order to snare their husband into marriage before "reducing" their sexual desire for their husband.

If women have allowed their husbands to have unrealistic expectations of them as regards to sex, it is hardly the husbands fault, is it?

wtf are you talking about? Do you seriously think that husbands are some sort of prize that women use any means possible to obtain?

SGBs point is that if husbands are selfish and don't pull their weight then it is highly unlikely that their wives will want to have sex with them. Because they will be worn out and unappreciated and they will be likely feeling resentful, not loving or horny.

People's libido change over time depending on the circumstances and it is just as likely that a woman might have a higher sex drive at times than her partner than the other way around.

Regardless no one has the right to demand sex whether they are married to the other person or not.

Robf:

Domestic work and sex are not traded off. But if one partner in a relationship has a lot more down-time to himself/herself while the other has very little, then the first shouldn't be surprised the second is too knackered or stressed or downright resentful to want to have sex.

Relationships change most when they have children (not on marriage), and women's libido is indeed sometimes affected by the burdens of pregnancy & childcare. How very surprising , given the actual physical impact of having children! Men in partnerships with respect & love for their wives recognise this and adapt, men who are arseholes don't.

If a man marries a woman purely for sex on tap, as you seem to be suggesting RobF, then he'd be better investing in a blow-up doll, as strangely actual women have thoughts and feelings of their own that won't necessarily match their husbands all the time, no matter how compatible they were at the start of the relationship.

Situations change, people mature and grow. People do not stay the same their whole lives. If you love your partner you talk & work things out with them, not pester and bully them.

The thing is, Rob, men who do no domestic work are making it very clear that they consider their wives their servants, which is a big turn off. They are also likely to be shit in bed, no matter how much they might enjoy themselves - people who are selfish are generally not much fun to have sex with.

If a man has decided to treat his wife as a housekeeper/nanny then he shouldn't be surprised when she doesn't think of him as a lover.

once again cant add any words or wisdom but just feel I want to add how this behaviour destroys the woman. When the sexual side of a relationship deteriorates to this level it is without a doubt because of a breakdown in the balance of the partnership. My H has always had a much higher sex drive than me and for years I have struggled with keeping him happy in the bedroom as well as juggle 3 children and a stressful demanding job and all the household chores and demands of a young family. My H has never acknowledged how things change for a woman once she has children and despite me asking on many occassions for help and support he has continually to me to "just get on with it - this is what wives and mothers do"!!!
What has this lack of support and love and kindness done? Well basically it has destroyed me and our relationship. He has pushed me away but the irony is that he has said that I HAVE DESTROYED THE MARRIAGE....I AM A SHIT WIFE, I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO LOOK AFTER A MAN....I AM AN EMOTIONAL CRIPPLE....I AM COLD HEARTED.....I MUST BE A LESBIAN....I MUST BE GETTING IT ELSEWHERE etc etc.....
I have tried explaining that to receive love you have to give love and am being told that unless I have sex then I have got a damn cheek to expect anything back...the void is in me....and I am the one with the problem!!!
I miss the closeness of sex, I miss the cuddles and the touching, I miss looking at my H in the eyes, I miss calling him in the middle of the day to just hear his voice, I miss the smell of him, I miss the laughter, but I am unable, physically unable to initiate any of these basic elements of love as I am so scared that he will just stick his hands in my knickers as he will think "she's finally got it....she finally has stopped the war"

Some of the posts on this thread are so sad, it must be awful to live like this. These men are not respecting your feelings at all, and behaviour like this is a total libido killer IME. I would leave, I couldn't put up with being treated like a fuck vessel. Worthless if my husband said any of that to me, he would be out the door.

glastocat - have tried on many occassions to get him to go......he says he is going nowhere!! Even lost a considerable amount of money earlier in the year as he did in fact put a deposit down on a house to rent and then backed out at the last minute! He refuses to leave his kids, his home and says the problem is all in my head.......
I can' t be the one to move out as I do not earn enough to satisfy the rental agents as property to rent where I live is so expensive. I have no savings to fall back on and am trapped.....would love to just run away but with three children where do you go and when your partner refuses to go it leaves you with very limited options!

Worth, have you no family who could help you out (go guarantor for you for rental/lend you money/help you find somewhere cheaper/move back in with temporarily)?

Have you looked at tax credits and benefits you might be entitled to if you went it alone on a low income? There are online calculators such as the 'entitledto' website.

Have you talked to any solicitors about the possibility of an occupation order for the house or what you would be entitled to in the event of a split? He would be legally expected to pay towards the upkeep of his children, (although admittedly getting some men to pay doesn't always work out).

You should talk to Women's Aid for advice, and if your situation is so emotionally abusive, you coud consider going into a refuge and from there possibly into social housing.

Don't think you can't get out, there are routes out of an awful marriage.

Hi Zikes - have looked into it all......I could ironically so afford to stay in my house with tax credits paid on top of my income and a small contribution from my H but I could not afford to rent somewhere (rent more expensive)....no family.......marriage not that abusive that I could force my kids into a refuge......just wish he could be a man and recognise what he has done to me and just buzz off!!!
In the meantime I hang on in there hoping, just hoping that he will have a"lightbulb" moment or that I will manage to gain enough strength to do what everyone thinks I should.......

Maybe starting divorce proceedings would give him that lightbulb.

worth, I can't call you worthless because you are not. This is an untenable situation, you must find a way out, for your own sake, never mind your kids. I'm not an expert in this area, but others here are, and I beg you to listen to them. This is no way to lead your life. For what its worth I read your initial post out to my husband, and he was just as horrified as me. We've been together 20 years, married for 14 and we still have a good if infrequent sex life, and are very happy together, and still love each other to bits. Not all men are like this, please don't think you have to put up with it. My dad was a nightmare, although for a different reason ( he was very possessive). My mum left him with zero money, just me, and we had a much happier life without him. My dad and I went on to have good relationship when I grew up, but I could see he was very controlling, luckily I was an adult and well able for him by then. Please don't expose your children to this behaviour, believe me, your children will know from an early age if you are unhappy. I certainly was. Good luck, and let the women on here help you, please!

What are men supposed to do when they have a much higher libido than their wives? Just spend the rest of their lives frustrated? It's always going to be a problem, and treating men as rapists for wanting to make love to their wives is not going make the problem go away. Men are in an impossible situation, and it's unfair to blame us.

What are you on about , are you honestly seriously asking what a man should do if he has a higher libido than his wife ? He certainly shouldnt grope her while shes asleep or pressure her into unwanted sex . I wouldnt really have thought that would need speling out to anyone .

If someone doesnt like what your doing sexually then you dont do it , end of .

A man can always have a wank, rather than sexually abuse their wife.

Makeyer own - ive got the book that goes with that course ( Living with the dominater ) and its one of the best ones ive read so far . Some other books are often recommended but i dont rate them as they tend to include advice about how to respond which i dont agree with . I think it should be taught in the first year of hight school , before theyve had a chance to get into these shitty relationships or begun to think its normal .

NotWorthlessAtAll - I feel for you , i remember it well , its totally soul destroying . Have you sought legal advice ? Its quite possible to get him out so you can live in peace with your children , but i understand also what it takes to do that when your confidence has been run into the ground . Are you getting any support at all ? I was amazed at the support available one i reached out for it .

NotWorthless there is help and support out there for you whether you choose to leave or stay in your marriage. If you want to leave there is a way. Have a look at the domestic violence webguide at the top of the page. Women's Aid is a good place to start. Whatever you tell workers there will be in the strictest confidence. They are completely non-judgemental and will not tell you what to do. No-one at Women's Aid will pressure you into leaving if you do not feel ready.

What I will say about your last post though is that at one point you say the marriage is not that abusive, but you then go on to say it has destroyed you. Do you see the contradiction there? Your marriage is terribly abusive NotWorthless and you are just as entitled as anybody else to refuge space should you want or need it.

What's happening to you isn't your fault and you don't deserve it. You have a right to live your life in freedom and peace.

worth...I am in a very similar situation and sympathise. I have done everything in my considerable powers to keep everyone happy and make things work to make up for my husbands shortcomings...he sees it the other way round and blames me for everything from the boiler not working to him being late for work...and reinvents the past so it can all be my fault and never his.
It is very wearing and pathetic. he refuses to go.
I had a big showdown with him and told him whatfor... I asked him why. since he apparently thought so poorly of me did he refuse to go ?
It turned out he doesn't think poorly of me at all.... he thinks very highly of me...which does not explain why he has undermined me and put me down consistently...the only explanation for that is his own inadequacy and bullying nature....and only now, with the marriage imminently over does he backtrack and say he didn't mean to put me down etc etc
Its all manipulation and quite shabby and the only answer is DIVORCE whether he leaves the house now or not [he won't] he will have to in the end.
wishing you strength and happiness x

notworthless

look, will you please just start divorce proceedings

the legal machine will sort out all these worries you have

give yourself over to it, just like he will have to

he will have to support the children, and indirectly you

I have lost count of the times I have given you that exact same advice, on various threads, under various names, along with many others all saying the same thing

just divorce him

yes, he will be a shit for a while, as it all goes through

so what is new ????

notworthless, he will NEVER have a lightbulb moment.
:(
he will never go off and leave you
you have only one life, and its not a practice run.
dont have more regrets in life than things you are proud/happy about.

just some of the things i was told. one day you will have a lightbulb moment and wonder why you wasted your life with this man. meanwhile, get some help and support. there are lots of places you can do this, but in the end, its you who has to be strong

What wrong with him wanting to touch you kizmet??

All he is doing is showing you he finds you attractive and wants you.

Personally i don't mind a bit of midnight fun. Not always in the mood and tell him so...usually by a swift arm in his chest..but sometimes it can be the best sex ever.

I also think that alot of you just go way over the top ffs. Some of you have kizmets husband down as a serial rapist and that her marriage is doomed.

She is probably just a bit narked that he woke her up and wants to vent a little...how do you know how her marriage is generally? For all you know he could be the most loving man ever and treat her like a queen

This is prob a 50/50 problem .. I mean you've been married a while and he's still affectionate with you, enough to try it on every night ... theres something there he's loving, doesn't that make you feel good? A little bit? If not why not? ... You say he's doing it every night, are you turning him down every night? Maybe he's thinking she wasn't up for it last night, maybe tonight'll be the night! .. but every time he gets knocked back ... YET he still tries!

I don't know Kismet, it sounds like both of you need to work at a solution rather than seperate rooms ... but I wouldn't say its his problem or your problem .. its something you both need to work on together, I imagine he's feeling very rejected at the moment ... one day he might stop trying altogether

plasticgeordieman - I have reported your post as it is just absolutely vile.

What century are we living in ffs?

i chose the vows 'to obey' my husband when we married...just 10 years ago. I'm living in this century. I do agree with PGM really and find the way they phrased it amusing.