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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Done to death I know, but help me see if I am the one in the wrong - MIL issues

156 replies

dana4nyc · 11/04/2011 12:23

I am very sorry to be doing yet another MIL thread but I really need some guidance here.

There is a long backstory here so I will do my very best to be as detailed as possible and not go on and on.

I moved to the UK 3 years ago after meeting my DH in May of 2007. I am American and we met in the states as he was on a detachement with the RAF. I came to visit him in England twice and his mother was nice as pie during those visits. When I moved over in April 2008 we had to live with them for approx. 1 month before we could move into our RAF accomodation. It was a difficult time as my MIL's father was ill at the time and passed away 4 days after my arrival. This could have contributed to her behavior with me but when it was just me & MIL in the house she would not speak to or look at me but once DH & FIL were home she acted fine with me. This was hard on me and I was quite a mess as I was in a new country with no friends or blood family and I was feeling very uncomfortable in my new surroundings.

Fast forward to now, 3 years later. My MIL & I have managed to have an OK relationship but there have been several things that she has said & done to me over the course of the past 3 years that have hurt me very badly and I have finally lost the plot and we have had the mother of all rows. Here are the things that have been said to me:

  1. "All of my friends think you have changed since getting together with dana4nyc, and not for the better" - This was said in front of me & DH only a few days after my arrival in the UK
  2. "(DH's name) has never treated me as badly as he has since he has been with you" - This was said only to me while DH was away on another detachement. I was also very heavily pregnant at the time.
  3. "You are the reason that (DH's name) was the ONLY one not present at the death of my father" - This was said in front of me & FIL. Side note We left the day before he passed away after DH has said his final goodbyes as the nurses told the family he would not make it through the night. DH did not want to be there when he took his final breath.
  4. On 2 separate occasions she has snatched my DD (and yes they were deliberate snatches) out of my arms. One time was at a family wedding in which my DH was not in attendance. The second occasion was at my DD's 1 birthday party. On the second occasion she took DD away from me and immediately gave her to DH. It is important to note that on either occasion DD was not crying or in distress at all. MIL just didn't want me to have her.
  5. On the day of DD's 1st birthday party MIL walked into our home and spoke to everyone in the house except for me. She did not speak more than 5 words to me for the entire day.

As this is getting to be a novel, the gist is that after living with being treated this was for far too long I snapped after she left a particulary snarky comment on my Facebook page. I finally stood up for myself by replying to her rather rude comment and deleted her as my friend. This turned into a massive row with her calling the house that night screaming down the phone at me and I saw red. I called her a f&%!? b*!%? and told her to stay away from me and my DD. She is now threatening to take us to court to get custody of DD. I know she is delusional regarding this but I am beyond livid that she would even threaten such a thing. She can hate me all she wants but to threaten me as a mother has made me so angry I can't think straight.

So my question is this - Am I justified in being angry? I feel at this point in time that I do not ever want to see her again nor do I want my DD to see her because I don't feel that I can trust her not to a) Say terrible things about me to DD and b) There is a small part of me that is scared the woman might put DD in a car and just drive off somewhere because she has made it clear she doesn't think I deserve DD. Once I have calmed down and am not so angry anymore I think I might be willing to let DH take DD to see MIL & FIL for a few hours every once in a while but he is not to leave DD alone with them.

There is a bit more detail to the story including an incident where FIL had a go at me and several comments they made regarding my parenting after DD was born but if you have gotten this far I really appreciate it.

I am also pregnant with DC2 and the stress of this situation in wreaking havoc on me emotionally as well as physically.

Please help me see if I am blowing things majorly out of proportion.

Many Thanks

OP posts:
ShoutyHamster · 12/04/2011 10:21

I would retract your permission for your DH to take your DD to see them 'one last time'. It's just an opportunity for a big tearful scene in which your MIL goes completely over the top, and probably does nothing but upset your daughter anyway.

Tell your DH that your MIL is more than welcome to come and see her granddaughter...when she comes to your house and apologises to her mother and father for her appalling behaviour. And she'd better do it quick, because if this is still the status quo when you leave for the States, she can fucking kiss goodbye to any relationship with you.

One thing I would definitely NOT do is let her see your DD without you there. It's giving her what she wants on HER terms. Does she deserve that? No. Are they fair terms? NO. Can you imagine the emotional blackmail and tearful manipulation that your DH would be subjected to during that meeting?

Why does it get to be all about her? How about YOU start getting upset at the thought of your duaghter being taken off, without you, to see the woman who's threatened to take her away? I'd be hyperventilating at the thought that my own husband could be so disloyal as to suggest that to me, especially when at this stage in pregnancy. How about you hit him with that, and ask him to choose what's more important? Or is it only MIL who's allowed to be upset and fragile and hysterical?

I'd be really, really angry now and would be asking him straight where his fucking loyalties lie. And telling him that after what she's said, that there is NO WAY she is having any access to MY DAUGHTER without me there.

Bottom line - MIL has fucked up, badly. THE BALL IS NOW IN HER COURT IF SHE WANTS TO PUT IT RIGHT. That's it. You're all adults. She doesn't get to overrule you and behave badly because she's the 'matriarch'. She also doesn't get to be Lady Fragile and have her feelings come ahead of her son's pregnant wife. She wants to see her granddaughter? Then come and apologise like a normal person.

Your DH is really not coming out of this well. Has he read this? This moment was always going to come - Mama Dearest needs putting into fourth place after you, DD and your new baby, and fast. At the moment, he's really, REALLY not making some very good choices!!

dana4nyc · 12/04/2011 10:35

I told DH about this thread last night and told him he is welcome to log in using my details and read it but apparently the hotel he is staying is charges £5 for wifi and he isn't going to pay that so he said he'd read it when he gets home at the weekend.

ShoutyHamster - I never thought about it that way. I guess I thought I was being the good guy even suggesting that DH could take DD to see them. I was looking at it more from a "I don't want to see them, they don't want to see me" perspective and picking what I thought was the easiest option by removing myself from the situation since I am the one no one wants to be around. But you are right, why should she get exactly what she wants? Maybe if DH tells her they can see DD if they come here and that I will be here that will prompt her to extend an olive branch out to me as well. I will never forgive MIL for what she has said and done regarding DD. I can forgive the cutting comments she has made about me/in reference to me and I can forgive FIL shouting the house down at me when DD was 13 weeks old because I picked her up when she was crying (he was at our house helping pack up as we were moving into a new RAF accomodation - DH was away as usual - and we ordered a takeaway. DD started to cry so I picked her up and held her with one arm and started to eat with my other hand. FIL went mental at me telling me I was spoiling "that child" and that basically I was a shit mother because I pandered to her every need. He made me cry and got me so upset I couldn't even eat my meal. He NEVER apologised, all he said was a mocking "Mummy is upset now and won't eat her tea". Other than this one incident FIL has been lovely to me, but I have not forgotten what it felt like to have the most mild mannered man I've ever met blow a fuse at me for something that was so completely NONE OF HIS BUSINESS how I parented my own child!). But there will be NO forgiveness for the threats made regarding my child.

DH just doesn't get the severity of this and I don't think he ever will. If he does cut them out of his life I feel he would do it just to appease me.

OP posts:
diddl · 12/04/2011 10:48

Jesus-they both sound absolutely horrible.
A grown man making fun of a woman with a newborn who he has made cry.
What a fucking twat.

I assume you have zero respect for either of them.
Not surprised you want to cut all ties tbh.

I agree that they should be invited to yours-it can´t appear that there is any disagreement betweem you & your husband at all

Is he by chance an only one?

My MIL is fairly pandered to I would say & it is excused by "that´s just the way she is".

It´s to her own detriment, though as she can barely make a decision for herself.

My husband finds them really hard to get on with & of course he loves them, but doesn´t like them.

dana4nyc · 12/04/2011 10:53

Yes, DH is an only child. MIL lost a baby girl when DH was a toddler and she was never able to have any more children after that. So, DH is very much so MIL's world.

OP posts:
YouaretooniceNOT · 12/04/2011 10:56

I am very sorry????????

DON'T BE!!!!

Shall read and return to post later

Clytaemnestra · 12/04/2011 12:06

dana4nyc - do you think MIL somehow sees your DD as a replacement for the DD that she lost? It would make sense as to why she feels so possesive and as if she has rights that she doesn't.

So, in her mind, you're not the mother of her DGD you're the evil woman who comes, not only between her and her DS, but her and her DD practically. It would explain where the mad custody thing comes from.

I'm also another one voting for don't let her see DD again, because it will be a horrible drama, with weeping, clutching your DD to her breast and howling that your evil mother is stealing you from me. It will utterly traumatise your DD, be something she remembers for life. Why put her through that?

And she's abusing your DH as well. That's the odd thing, he may well be the golden boy, but she's got no hesitation to rain shit down on his head as soon as she doesn't get her own way. Ask your DH to imagine for a second that she wasn't just blowing hot air about custody, imagine if she actually did have custody of HIS DD and only let him see her every other weekeend. Because that is what she is imagining is the not only the right outcome but also an actual possible outcome. She doesn't know that she's talking out of her backside, she thinks it's possible. His own DM. And why on earth is he not so angry that he could explode?

And you can give your FIL a good kick for his behaviour as well. Disgusting.

kerstina · 12/04/2011 12:07

Just want to add my thoughts I can usually see arguments from all sides and I can with this one too.
I have a lot of sympathy for you and totally understand why you would feel hostile and angry with your in laws but I do feel a lot of people are egging you on here to feel more outraged about the situation rather than trying to be more forgiving. Also people are calling the mil an old hag and similar is there really any need for that ? I am beginning to worry that the term girls are for life but a boy is only yours till he gets a wifeSmile is very true !
Surely it would be better to be the bigger person here try and make some peace before you go in June she is losing you all anyway.
I have sympathy for your mil because as someone pointed out earlier her early meetings with you were tied up with the loss of her dad and son .Try and imagine yourself older and how you might feel if your dd moves to another country.
I also had a similar situation that you had with your fil re feeding my baby.
My dad thought I was pandering to my baby when I used to stop eating and go to my crying baby. He really upset me at the time too with his lack of understanding.
I really wish you all the best of luck and its your life but would it not be nicer to leave the country on good terms with your in laws.

ShoutyHamster · 12/04/2011 12:22

Agree with diddl, they sound worse and worse the more you say about them.

Bullying, entitled, manipulative. And just - well, no manners, no real idea how NORMAL people behave!

I've read many threads on this issue and it's so common - the essence of the problem is really that the MIL has had many years of being the matriarch - the head female figure in the family. The her son marries, and she KNOWS she doesn't come 'first' among females anymore, and it's a hard adjustment. Then he has children. And all of a sudden, she is PUBLICLY 'dethroned', as there is another woman (possibly until quite recently a complete stranger) who is the person in the family saying 'Time for a nap' and 'No we won't be eating that' etc.

There are two main types - the sensible, well-adjusted women who have a life of their own and welcome the turn of the new generation and see the positives. Then there are the weaker characters whose adult children are 'their life', who live demanding, manipulative lives bolstered up on a false platform of being pandered to by the rest of the family.

What your DH really needs to see is that he cannot HAVE the option he's trying to take at the moment. Your comment on his dealing with the situation by laughing at MIL really got me thinking. It's quite a clever 'solution' he's had there, and I bet it's served him well. Basically, he's still scared of Mummy's reaction to being anything but first with her little prince, but can't allow himself to see that this is actually the case - he's the big grown-up now, right? By affecting to laugh at her, to not take her seriously, he gets to keep his dignity and can bury the fact that what he's ACTUALLY doing is being submissive to her, letting her do/say anything. He laughs publicly, patronises her - but what's actually happening? - he is failing to challenge her. It is a smokescreen for his fear of her. She trained him well, and he is a clever enough man to have created his own way of not actually looking like a mummy's boy whilst letting it continue.

But now it's not about just him. He's now part of a separate family, not a single agent. You are, quite rightly, horrified at MIL's actions and your natural instinct is to defend your position and to demand an apology. And you are left looking on in horror and bewliderment at your husband's now UTTERLY inappropriate response.

I hope your husband does read this. Marriages have foundered on this power struggle being played out. He cannot maintain this submissive position to the generation above him and truly be a husband, father and the head of his own family. He just can't. Ultimately, it would destroy your marriage by the simple fact that your respect for him would erode away. Keeping MIL in her false position shouldn't be worth threatening his primary relationship. This should go for FIL too. His attack on you sounds absolutely vile. Quite frankly, any man who doesn't respond to an attack like that on his wife by setting his father straight in the strongest possible terms isn't worth having as a husband. I suggest that you remind your DH of this event, and others, when you see him and make it quite clear that you have had enough. You have absorbed, forgiven, given way MANY TIMES basically for the sake of family relations and keeping them sweet. They have now overstepped the mark. Now the balance has well and truly swung the other way. YOU and your children are your DHs nuclear family and his loyalty should be to YOUR wellbeing, not PILs'. Is he up to making that choice or does he wish to stay on the apron strings? Yes, it is HIS CHOICE - not one to be passed as a cowardly buck to you 'well I'll do it to appease you'. No. His choice. Big man's choice. Grown-up choice. Forced by the actions of PIL, not you. Make that crystal clear!

BelleBelicious · 12/04/2011 12:29

Kerstina. I am sure you have the best intentions, but I really feel you are missing the point. The MIL is not reasonable. She doesn't want a good relationship, she wants her way. She isn't even trying to patch things up - just escalating things, and I think a previous poster hit the nail on the head, probably enjoying the drama and victim status.

Dana - by all means extend the olive branch. MIL can see DD with you in the house for a couple of hours, when it's all calmed down, if and only if, she comes and apologises for her hideous accusations and behaviour. You are pregnant and don't need this stress now. When she is ready to behave as an adult then you can move on.

Try not to get too angry with DH. He has been manipulated by this woman all his life. He doesn't know any different. And getting angry with him will only make him feel worse. Being an only child must be very hard, especially with a woman like that on your back. Be strong, don't back down, keep reiterating what you've said. MIL's behaviour is unacceptable. It is manipulative and damaging. She needs to behave appropriately to you if she is going to be part of your DDs life. These are not unreasonable demands. Don't get angry about it. Just know that you are right.

As for all the sympathy because this woman lost her father - I've lost my father too, didn't mean I went round giving innocent women a hard time. It's got nothing to do with it. Losing your parents is really hard, but it's life as you get older, not an excuse to be a bitch to other people or constantly demand special treatment.

diddl · 12/04/2011 12:35

I think the problem is often that when couples marry, the wife keeps up her relationship with her parents & the husband let´s his slide.

The MIL is angry with the DIL, when she should actually be looking to her own son.

(Sorry, OT, it was the "man´s a son til he gets a wife thing" got me thinking.)

SkinittingFluffyBunnyBonnets · 12/04/2011 12:36

I reckon you're right Diddl. My DH is crap at keeping in touch with his parents...I HATE that it's me who has to send MIL fresh pics of the DC all the time...why can't HE do it?

kerstina · 12/04/2011 12:42

Yes totally agree my DP is useless it is me that worries about his mom and whether she is ok .I phone my mom most nights and we are very close I am very aware of the fragility of life.
I have one ds I need to have a girlGrin

snotalways · 12/04/2011 12:46

I totally agree Didl

dana4nyc · 12/04/2011 12:49

I am sitting here in tears at the amount of care and compassion that I have been shown by complete strangers. I haven't had anyone back me up this much in 3 years. Not trying to be cruel to my DH, he has been on my side every time I have cried floods of tears over the way I have been treated, but he has always has an excuse for it or he has said "but he/she didn't mean it the way you took it". It is so nice to have someone on my side. For the past 3 years I have felt like such an outsider, always looking in and wanting to fit it but not quite. As if it isn't hard enough being the odd one out all the time (the only American, the only one in our circle of friends not in the RAF, for a while the only pregnant one, then the only one with a baby....etc etc) I have looked back on my life prior to moving here and I was happy, had a good job, great friends, great relationship with my family and look where I am now.......had one job since moving here but my positioned was terminated whilst I was on maternity leave and haven't been able to even find PT work in a shop, now I'm pregnant and no one even wanted to give me the time of day, most of my friends here are only friends with me because they were my DH's friends before be met me and my DH's family detest me. I'm really not that bad of a person, I mean I have my faults but don't we all? I've never in my life felt so useless and alone as I have these past 3 years.

OP posts:
cornsilkily · 12/04/2011 12:56

Been watching this thread. I agree that it could be potentially very emotionally damaging for dd to be put in a traumatic situation with MIL/DH in MIL's house and you are unlikely to know exactly what has been said in front of dd. It will be very confusing for her. MIL must come to your house to see dd. If she can't bring herself to do that then she obviously doesn't care as much as she claims to about her granddaughter.
The last thing you want is your dd to feel unsettled about moving to a new country because MIL has caused a big fuss about saying goodbye. MIL and DH need to put dd's needs first here.

kerstina · 12/04/2011 12:57

You are so brave imo to leave your home country make a completely new life for your self and you must miss your family and friends so much. I know you are upset now but you have so much to look forward too, you will have the support network back. Such a shame that mil could not have supported you rather than picking fights.

CelebratedMonkey · 12/04/2011 13:07

Personally I would be very nervous about leaving a child of mine with an inlaw who wanted custody of them. Of course she wouldn't get it - but what if she tried to keep her for longer than you wanted? What if DH let her?

I would make a point of only letting them see her if you are there.

ShoutyHamster · 12/04/2011 13:11

Oh Dana! Bless you - you poor thing. Hey, chin up. It looks to this one objective outsider (!) that things are about to turn. Back to the States, the birth of your second child, becoming more experienced in parenting, getting the chance to start afresh with new friendship groups and have the closer support of your family. I am sure that you will look back, perhaps be telling your DD in years to come - 'Goodness! That was such, such a difficult time for me. Looking back, the tide didn't turn until xxx happened, and then xxx...' My point is - this period is drawing to a close.

The more you say, the more it becomes clear that although he's created the impression of being supportive, your DH has actually been sat firmly on the fence. 'She didn't mean it the way you took it'. What does that actually mean? It translates as 'Their actions aren't going to come under scrutiny - at all. I cant actually know what they meant - they may very well have tried to subtly put you down, or whatever. But I'm going to overlook that entirely. I'm going to focus on YOU and your response, and find blame there. Because that's easier for me, as you'll accept it rather than exploding in my face, as Mum/Dad would'.

Being treated like this is hugely damaging and undermining. I would think that it has certainly contributed in part to the way you clearly feel - an outsider, unsupported - all you say in your last post. I'm not saying for a minute that this is deliberate or evil on your DH's part. I'm sure he's lovely and that you have a strong foundation to your relationship. I feel sorry for him that he is caught in the bind he is with his clearly unreasonable and quite nasty parents, and I don't underestimate how difficult it would be to him to challenge it. But challenge it he MUST.

Make him read your last post again and again. This awful way you feel is at the VERY HEART of why him sitting on the fence like this, trying to appease his mother, ISN'T neutral. Every time he tells you 'Oh, she didn't mean it!' 'But it isn't FAIR on her to..' he strikes a blow at your couple-relationship. You know, and he knows, that at that moment another person is coming first, and unfairly so. He is spending your goodwill, your love, like this. He is chipping away at your respect and regard for him. It is so much more dangerous and damaging a position than he realises.

You will be ok!

BelleBelicious · 12/04/2011 13:13

Oh sweetheart. I spent most of my pregnancies in tears (hormones) and I had nothing like your problems.

You should have been welcomed into that family like a lost daughter. You were so far from home. I think you can tell a lot about people from how they treat newcomers.

Still. You have a beautiful daughter, a new baby on the way and you'll be home soon near a family that love you.

Keep your eyes ahead, life's going to get better.

dana4nyc · 12/04/2011 13:20

Thank you Belle, that made me smile! I had DD sitting on my lap and we enjoyed listening to that together!

OP posts:
BelleBelicious · 12/04/2011 13:32

My pleasure. Me and Johnny have seen some hard times together and he's never let me down yet.

Clytaemnestra · 12/04/2011 13:32

Oh bless you :( I just want to take you out for a cup of tea (and a bitch about your MIL).

You're not in the wrong here. Even a tiny bit. You should have a shiny polished halo for the way you have dealt with things so far - I'd have lost my rag in about a week!

ohmeohmy · 12/04/2011 14:09

Just read whole thread and wanted to say how sad it is this has eroded your self esteem, confidence and happiness. You gave up so much and have been given a lot of negativity along with the gifts of your dh and dd. Much of this weight will be lifted when you are back among your friends and family who love you and will treat you well and see your dd as who she is and not a pawn in some crazy power game.

I do agree that your relationship with DH is the key to sorting this in a positive way. He needs to be reinforcing his bonds with you especially in light of the impending physical separation. Hope he reads this and good luck for the future.

spatchcock · 12/04/2011 14:31

Just read the whole thread and I want to take you out for a cup of tea, too!

You have done all you can to build a relationship with your MIL and it just hasn't worked. No fault of yours. So glad you are getting away. Feel so sorry for you to be going through this during your pregnancy.

Nothing constructive to add to the quite frankly amazing advice on this thread but just wanted to cheer you on. Soon all this crap will be behind you. x

ally90 · 12/04/2011 19:43

My pov, she's posessive of her son being with you (or any other woman, how was she with his gf's?) and equally with her gc. What does she hope to gain by being so unplesant? Surely it is best to support the mother of your gc???? Esp when pg for goodness sakes! Jeez. Tbh if she were my mil she would be dumped like a hot potato and dh takes dc to see her and he remains with them, let him deal with her behaviour, why should you? And if she is 'ok' as a person why on earth is she saying these things with dh away? Because she would not dare say them in front of him. How dare she treat you like this....its not normal or okay behaviour. She needs to apologise (your chances sound like nil), but given she is trying (and will fail) to get custody of the dc I would consider her (as long as you have done nothing nutty with them) a sandwich short of a picnic. How dare she.

Btw, have no contact with my pil or sil, or my mother or father or sister, limited (cards only) contact with my uncle. Do email cousins sometimes. From experience she will be angelic and liked by other people, but with someone taking her ds 'away' she will be hell to deal with. They can hide it quite well and make you feel like your the one in the wrong.