Need help, a slap...something...please

[headinamess]

I'm writing this after reading a few threads where women are in the process of finding out about their husbands' affairs. I read those threads with my heart in my mouth, because in my situation, I'm the straying partner, and I know I'm behaving every bit as badly as some of those men.

The thing is though, I'm so sad, anxious and ill and I really don't know what to do or where to turn.

Almost a year ago I confessed to my husband that I'd had an affair. It still feels weird typing those words, but I can't sit here and say it was out of character for me, because it wasn't, was it? I did it and I have to own it.

I've been having psychotherapy for six years, before, during and subsequent to the affair, and believe me, I have done some serious soul searching about what it was about my relationship with my husband and what it was about myself that led me to make those decisions.

My husband and I also had relationship counselling, at my insistence, and to my eternal shame I resumed the affair during the counselling. The counselling was useful however, and I don't think I would have ended the affair and confessed without it.

Just to provide a bit of background, my marriage has been a very difficult one at times. My husband admits that for years he didn't listen to me over some very serious issues between us, which left me feeling very unimportant in the marriage. I didn't always express myself well - I have an over-emotional personality, which leads my husband to retreat further away, which leads me to shout louder - and so it goes on.

My self esteem was at rock bottom for years, which I think is what made me vulnerable to the attentions of the OM. My husband I got together when we were very young and I was a virgin, and quite uptight about sex. However, as the years wore on, and with the help of therapy, I started to want to experiment more, but my husband seemed reluctant. I bought toys, sexy underwear, books - he showed no interest other than going through the motions because he thought I wanted him to. Even now, after almost twenty years together, I've never ever received a sexy gift from him - not so much as a pair of sexy knickers or stockings. That makes me feel totally unattractive on a bad day, on a good day that perhaps our sex drives are mismatched. I don't know - is that normal?

Now we come to the OM. He was married, a player, he lied to me, he was a serial philanderer. He pursued me relentlessly for months. I am in no way trying to absolve myself from responsibility for what I did - I fully had my part to play in everything that happened. The thing is, despite him being a bloody loser and a bad bet, he gave me a taste of what it's like to be desired, plus we got along great, it was such an easy relationship in a lot of ways. That seems weird, as most of the time we spent together was spent angsting over what we were doing, and we never even had sexual intercourse, but there just seemed to be an easy fit, where there hadn't been with my husband. Needless to say, I fell in love with him. I know it's pathetic and teenage and classic mid-life crisis territory, but it happened. I still have strong feelings for him, if I'm honest, even without contact. The other scary thing is, that I don't feel guilty, but that could be the therapy - I have a good understanding of the reasons for the affair, so while I'm sorry for what I did, I don't feel guilty as such.

Which brings me to the present day. I can't seem to fall back in love with my husband. I can recognise that he's great, he's forgiven me, we've both made major changes to our lives that should safeguard our marriage for the future. I've had no contact with the OM for almost a year. But many of the things that bothered me about my relationship with my husband (mostly centred around sex and emotional intimacy) are still there, and now I'm not in a position to complain about them, because I've lost the moral high ground.

I've tried telling him how I feel, but that just seems to rub his nose in it. I've told him that I think it might be better if we separate, but he just says I know what I have to do (ie go, because he's not going to) and that he isn't going to just roll over. I would love us to stay friends and co-parent, but he says he just isn't interested in that, he couldn't be my friend if we weren't together. The thought of that just devastates me.

We have two dcs who are 10 and 12, and to be honest, I think they are the reason we are still together.

I don't really know why I'm writing this. I think I know what I have to do, I'm just not up to doing it. If anything, I just want this to serve as a warning for anyone tempted by an affair. Don't do it. It really isn't worth the pain.

I think you really must stop putting OM on a pedestal. Yes he made you feel great- that's what OM and OW do! They offer something you aren't getting.

If you can see part of what he offfered you as an illusion, an act, a role in a play ( and he was the chief player!) then it doesn't seem quite so appealing. he knew which of your buttons to press- but was he sincere? or was it all shallow charm?

The point is- can you expect to get that frisson in a long term marriage?

it was illicit, it was fun, it was intense. it was never going to last- so don't hold it up as some kind of blueprint for life- life aint like that most of the time unless you are very, very, lucky.

All you can do is try to recreate the good bits of what you had with him in your marriage. Your DH has a good sde- can you see it?

If on the otherhand there has never been any true sexual chemistry then it won't happen now, IMO.

I'm not just talking about your childhood though; we are all influenced by far more than that. What I'm wondering about is that you seem to have chosen a non-sexual partner and yet you've been living in a society (assuming UK) that has for years promoted a discourse that men's libidinous impulses are a primary driver, whereas women are driven by relational impulses.

What you've found is that in fact, your libidinous impulse as an individual is strong. Your H's doesn't appear to be. And it is precisely because of that societal discourse that your H's sexual responses have conspired to make you feel "more of a woman" by the OM. It would be more accurate to say perhaps that he made you feel like a sexual being for the first time, but the fact that you introduce the word "woman" into that statement suggests that you have been socialised to think that "being a woman" means being perpetually sexually desirable to a man.

Challenge that script too, if it is there.

I am also taking note of what you've said about the OM appearing to be an emotionally intelligent person who could cry and show his feelings. I'm glad you've seen the reality of that, but I am not assuming that his appeal was purely sexual or physical, or that he can be put into a confining alpha box, because I suspect he was more complex than that.

I'm interested in the timing of your conversation with your H, because I notice how often these conversations are instigated by a soon-to-be-unfaithful spouse. I'd imagine you omitted to tell him that there was a real-life affair partner and how threatening the situation really was.

What that conversation actually represents is a test and you may have deluded yourself that if your H took action and demonstrated passion, you would have stepped back.

In fact I think that was highly unlikely and in reality you were setting him up to fail. That sounds awful and what I mean by that is that at this point, you were unwilling to invest more in your marriage yourself. You knew that your H wouldn't change his nature as a result of that conversation, so you perhaps went ahead and punished him for his inertia, knowing deep down that he wouldn't change. Knowing too, that by the time you had that conversation, you were never going to make efforts yourself to improve your relationship and any efforts made would have to come from your H alone. If he was unaware of the real danger, he was unsighted and cannot be faulted for trusting you.

No pedestal, cabbagerose, if you read my last post again you'll see i'm well aware of what was going on. He was a player, doing what players do!

Yes, you're probably right, wwifn. I should probably go jump off a bridge, shouldn't I? Fucked everything up haven't I? And hurt a blameless man into the bargain. Lovely.

I'm really sorry you've had that reaction. I thought you wanted help to unpick some of this. I really understand why you might be defensive, but if you re-read all the posts on this thread, I hope you will see the balance there. And if you'd read any of my other posts, you will know that I passionately believe that good people have affairs and that it's a mistake to vilify someone for what is a very human crisis. However, IMO it serves no purpose unless a person learns more about what led her to that point and can be introspective about their own behaviour, character and vulnerabilities, as well as her partner's.

I wasn't actually being defensive, wwifn. You've opened my eyes to what a shit i've been and i feel pretty wretched about it. Sorry you read me wrong.

It was that emotional incontinence again!

Yes, that was why I said you "might" be defensive - didn't want to assume that you were!

The thing is, wearing a sackcloth and ashes and self-flagellating doesn't actually do any good. Far better to understand why it happened and to learn more about yourself as an individual. Wearing a hair-shirt is an avoidant action because the pay-off is, it stops introspection and understanding.

Look- you had a dalliance. In some people's eyes it was not even an affair- I don't know what you got up to but you say you didn't actually have sex. There must have been a reason for that- and it is possibly that you stopped short of what you would regard as the ultimate betrayal.

Maybe instead of calling this an affair you can reframe it as a flirtation that went too far.

Stop taking all the blame. You husband doesn't " do it for you"- whether that's emotionally, physically or both. he must during your marriage have spotted this. whether it's a case of won't, or can't, only you know.

He loves you and is prepared to give it a go.

You have still not said why you married him in the first place. That is they key to what happens next.

Utterly pointless raking over why you strayed or what your view of sex/relationships is. it's primal urge and your DH doesn't appear to turn you on.

Unless he is deaf, blind and dumb, he must have seen the signs and didn't make much of an effort to keep you-either throughhis own inadequacies or because he is lazy. so stop beating yourself up.

Where the hell do I go from here, then? How do I stop myself thinking "om would have done x" everytime dh doesn't respond the way i would have hoped? How do i become a better partner?

Oh, it was an affair, cabbageroses. We didn't have intercourse, but we did everything else, made declarations of love, etc. If that wasn't an affair, then ww2 was a scuffle...

why not look into the contacts I gave you?

She uses CBT methods which change behaviour. (I have no vested interest by the way- but she is a colleague of other people I know.)

Why are you ignoring the questions about why you didn't actually have sex with the OM? IMO this is relevant. Did he or you end it before it happened or did you choose not to out of loyalty to your H?

Why are you ignoring the questions about why you married DH in the first place?

Security?
Fear of being alone?
Biological clock?
Parental pressure?
Financial situation?
Love, lust etc etc?

I married him because I loved him. I was very young -22 when I got engaged. I knew nothing, had had very little experience of relationships and didn't think I'd meet anyone I felt so at home with. Sad really, because I don't now.

I didn't have sex with om because that would have been the end of my marriage. It was the bill clinton thing. Bargaining.

Have you explored this with your counsellor? If sexual intercourse was the final betrayal but everything else was on the cards- what does that tell you?

Would it have made any difference?

Why would that have meant your marriage was over but the other stuff you did doesn't?

Did you want to hol d onto your marriage? Did you kid yourelf that anything else was okay but penetration was a step too far?

I think you need to be honest.

I really think you need to seek out professional help. This is what should be taked through with a trained counsellor- although you say you have had counselling you still seem very confused about what to do now.

What is stopping you seeking that help?

it's easy to let it all out here, but if you are ggenuinely wanting to make changes- and not simply talk about the possibility- then you have to act.

Becoming a better partner yourself won't resolve the issues. You can't help wanting or needing more from a romantic partner, just as your H cannot help wanting different things from you. What you wanted when you were 22 is evidently different to what you perhaps needed in a partner. If you are being searingly honest about this and things never were right between you (by that I am assuming you mean passionate sexual chemistry and a meeting of minds) it's going to be a hard job to create that now.

I think the reason you were unfaithful is far more complex than a primal urge and if you want to emerge from this with a better understanding of what has shaped you and makes you tick, it is essential that you unravel why this happened. Why you made choices to stay in a relationship that was unsatisfactory, why you chose to enact a secret choice, why you are making your current choices. But your H needs to do the same, because he has also been enacting unhelpful choices and still is. The only one he had no control over was the affair.

"I would love us to stay friends and co-parent, but he says he just isn't interested in that, he couldn't be my friend if we weren't together."

That sounds quite controlling to me. Also, why should you necessarily be the one to leave? He can't 'make' you desire him or be in love with him or any of those things. I understand that he doesn't want to be a pushover but if the relationship is not working for you, then ultimately you may want to get out of it and in the long run he will have to accept a co-parenting situation whether he likes it or not. It isn't very helpful for the children to have parents who hate each other, so surely he would eventually accept that it would be best to maintain a civil relationship, whatever happens?

Also, is he saying he is NOT friends with you? I don't really get that. Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who is not, at the very least, your friend? I would have thought that would be the very least that one would require. From what you are saying the romantic/sexual/emotional side of the relationship has run out of steam for you (if it was ever really there in the first place) and your affair was a symptom of that.

For what it is worth I did once know a couple who lived together harmoniously with their children (not sure whether they were married or not) but as co-parents and house mates. They had agreed on the arrangement for pratical reasons and for the sake of the children. They had other relationships but did not bring the partners to the house. It sounds pretty kooky but it worked for them. I rather admired them for being able to do this as I am sure that most couples wouldn't be able to.

What I mean was, they had had a relationship but it had fallen apart but they had worked through everything to get to the stage where they could share a house as friends and co-parents while their children were still young.

What unhelpful choices is dh making, wwifn?

The statement about not being friends was probably made from a position of hurt and I don't read it as controlling at all. If he wants a romantic relationship with our OP and is still hurting about the affair, I can quite understand why he might not be able to see a platonic friendship ahead, because that is not what he wants right now.

Time and distance might prove otherwise, but most people whose marriages have ended against their wishes cannot be friends initially, because it hurts too much. What's better for them initially, is to detach and heal their wounds. The best you can hope to achieve in the short-term is a civil co-parenting relationship - the rest takes time.

I am still having counselling, cabbagerose. It wasn't as if everything else was ok and sex wasn't, it was more that the whole thing was a slippery slope, with choices made along the way that I rationalised as I went. Like, oh it's ok to be emailing all day, he's just a friend...it's ok to meet for coffee...it's ok to hug, we all hug our friends...it was just a snog, we all make mistakes, etc etc. I put a stop to the affair before shagging happened, because if it had, I don't think I could have got over him. It's difficult enough as things are.

Of course, dh says if I had have shagged OM the pain couldn't be any worse, which just goes to show how silly all that bargaining was.

Cross-posted.

Your H's choices? It all depends whether you have been as honest with him as you have been with us here.

If he knows that the sexual chemistry was never right between you and that he could never be someone you wanted him to be, he has made a choice to stay in a marriage and hope that what he could offer, would be enough. If he knows you well enough, or you have shown him your true personality and sexuality, that is a high level of denial.

He made a choice to stay in a marriage with someone whose temperament was different to his.

He is making a choice not to uncover why you had an affair and therefore whether you can prevent being unfaithful again.

He is making a choice to stay in a marriage with someone who doesn't desire him or respect him enough. Someone who isn't in love with him.

He is choosing to believe that it's better to have two parents living in the same house, than modelling a fully functioning marital relationship to the children.

He is subsuming any human needs he might have to be adored, respected and desired.

I would be inclined to agree with you.

I have been every bit as honest with him.

I've said all of those things to him. Especially your last point.

I'd love to see him happy with a sweet-tempered woman. Instead he seems to want to maintain the status quo, with a harpie.

I really want to turn into that sweet-tempered woman. But in reality, that's not going to happen, is it?

he may be subjugating human needs (I think that 's the word you mean) but he is doing so willingly.

This is our second guessing what he is thinking.

OP_ you said he would not have counselling with you.

Is that not a bit of a deal breaker in itself?
If he wants this marriage to work, why is he not doing the single, most obvious thing that might help?

I'd be working on that as a primary goal.

If he still won't- what does that tell you?

He won't because he's convinced that it will consist of me sitting there saying I want to split up and the therapist will back me up. Last time he felt ganged up on.

He also has been put off by the fact that I wasn't completely honest last time we had counselling.

He thinks that I'll be going in there with an agenda of bringing him round to the idea of splitting. Which, to be honest, I probably would be.

He's scared stiff of not living with his children, basically. It's very sad and hard and I hate it.

I should never have married the poor man in the first place.