Need help, a slap...something...please

[headinamess]

I'm writing this after reading a few threads where women are in the process of finding out about their husbands' affairs. I read those threads with my heart in my mouth, because in my situation, I'm the straying partner, and I know I'm behaving every bit as badly as some of those men.

The thing is though, I'm so sad, anxious and ill and I really don't know what to do or where to turn.

Almost a year ago I confessed to my husband that I'd had an affair. It still feels weird typing those words, but I can't sit here and say it was out of character for me, because it wasn't, was it? I did it and I have to own it.

I've been having psychotherapy for six years, before, during and subsequent to the affair, and believe me, I have done some serious soul searching about what it was about my relationship with my husband and what it was about myself that led me to make those decisions.

My husband and I also had relationship counselling, at my insistence, and to my eternal shame I resumed the affair during the counselling. The counselling was useful however, and I don't think I would have ended the affair and confessed without it.

Just to provide a bit of background, my marriage has been a very difficult one at times. My husband admits that for years he didn't listen to me over some very serious issues between us, which left me feeling very unimportant in the marriage. I didn't always express myself well - I have an over-emotional personality, which leads my husband to retreat further away, which leads me to shout louder - and so it goes on.

My self esteem was at rock bottom for years, which I think is what made me vulnerable to the attentions of the OM. My husband I got together when we were very young and I was a virgin, and quite uptight about sex. However, as the years wore on, and with the help of therapy, I started to want to experiment more, but my husband seemed reluctant. I bought toys, sexy underwear, books - he showed no interest other than going through the motions because he thought I wanted him to. Even now, after almost twenty years together, I've never ever received a sexy gift from him - not so much as a pair of sexy knickers or stockings. That makes me feel totally unattractive on a bad day, on a good day that perhaps our sex drives are mismatched. I don't know - is that normal?

Now we come to the OM. He was married, a player, he lied to me, he was a serial philanderer. He pursued me relentlessly for months. I am in no way trying to absolve myself from responsibility for what I did - I fully had my part to play in everything that happened. The thing is, despite him being a bloody loser and a bad bet, he gave me a taste of what it's like to be desired, plus we got along great, it was such an easy relationship in a lot of ways. That seems weird, as most of the time we spent together was spent angsting over what we were doing, and we never even had sexual intercourse, but there just seemed to be an easy fit, where there hadn't been with my husband. Needless to say, I fell in love with him. I know it's pathetic and teenage and classic mid-life crisis territory, but it happened. I still have strong feelings for him, if I'm honest, even without contact. The other scary thing is, that I don't feel guilty, but that could be the therapy - I have a good understanding of the reasons for the affair, so while I'm sorry for what I did, I don't feel guilty as such.

Which brings me to the present day. I can't seem to fall back in love with my husband. I can recognise that he's great, he's forgiven me, we've both made major changes to our lives that should safeguard our marriage for the future. I've had no contact with the OM for almost a year. But many of the things that bothered me about my relationship with my husband (mostly centred around sex and emotional intimacy) are still there, and now I'm not in a position to complain about them, because I've lost the moral high ground.

I've tried telling him how I feel, but that just seems to rub his nose in it. I've told him that I think it might be better if we separate, but he just says I know what I have to do (ie go, because he's not going to) and that he isn't going to just roll over. I would love us to stay friends and co-parent, but he says he just isn't interested in that, he couldn't be my friend if we weren't together. The thought of that just devastates me.

We have two dcs who are 10 and 12, and to be honest, I think they are the reason we are still together.

I don't really know why I'm writing this. I think I know what I have to do, I'm just not up to doing it. If anything, I just want this to serve as a warning for anyone tempted by an affair. Don't do it. It really isn't worth the pain.

No, you're not

I think he is being very foolish, and should find some self respect

Holding on to a woman that will slowly respect him less and less is stupid behaviour and not good for your dc's

why don't you divorce him ?

he cannot hold you ransom like this

Maybe that's what I need to do, but on what grounds? I'm the baddy here.

i am surprised that all the usuals havent been on screeching from the rooftops that you are arrogant, a c**t, cant possibly care about your kids, he should leave the barrrrrstarrrd etc etc etc

oh no, sorry thats for men who cheat isnt it, the females should always be felt sad for and given sympathy

hmmmmm double standards anyone? - where on any thread on here has anyone ever ever felt sorry or sad or even suggested there may be reasons why, for the male in the situation where a woman who has been cheated on. and at the daftness of it all

Irreconcilable differences

it will take a while, or he may counterclaim based on your adultery

it would move things along and break the stalemate though wouldn't it, if that is what you really want

I really understand your feelings. I've suffered with self esteem issues majorly in the past and need a LOT of attention and intimacy to feel ok about myself - rightly or wrongly.

You sound like you are still suffering low self esteem and you want it to be him that makes you feel better but he's not. So the bravest thing to do is for you to find a rented house or flat nearby, make a fair arrangement about the children (you don't have to leave them completely - four nights with you, three with him, or something?) and present him with your plan.

He's forgiven you, which is pretty good of him. BUT he's also not prepared to work at the marriage and prevent you from going off again and you are telling him that that is likely to happen, which is showing a lack of commitment from him in a different way and is a good enough reason to leave. You need more intimacy. He refuses to provide it and you feel unloved. He's comfortable with his family unit and doesnt' want to change anything. So it's gonna have to be you that changes it. When they're older, your boys will understand - and as adults they won't sit in a dead relationship and not change anything.

If he's saying he can't be friends with you you have to respect that. And anyway, if you are fair and reasonable in arrangements, that may come with time anyway.

Good luck, I feel really sad for you as well.

I think you may have been sabotaging your marriage when you had the affair - you're not in love with the OM he just meets the needs that your DH doesn't in terms of attention and desire - it would never be like that if you lived with him. But I don't think you're in love with your dh either... You feel great affection for him, and masses of guilt, which is what actually makes you want to stay. That's not enough. How many times are you prepared to guilt yourself into staying with him because he's a good man who forgave you?

in this day and age, no-one is forced to stay in a marriage they do not want

The don't look at it like that anymore.

Anyway, you would be divorcing on the grounds of irretrievable breakdown not adultery.

Would it be reasonable to say the marriage had broken down prior to the affair? Then you tried to sort things out and it has now.....broken down.

To procrastinate as you are doing, are you afraid you may regret it? You have security as a married lady? Have spent your adult life as a twosome and you're unsure how you'd be along? I don't know.....you do.

"how you'd be ALONE?"

My knowledge of divorce laws is sketchy to say the least

However, there will be a way to do it, if it's what you want

Sounds as though you need to end the marriage for him then head.

And stop beating yourself up. What's done is done, you've admitted you've fucked up, now YOU have to move this forward.

Blended families work just fine.

phoebe, perhaps if you can't see anything constructive on this thread, you should keep your beak out ?

just a thought

He isn't text book exemplary if he won't go to counselling though.

You don't like the status quo.

Neither does he, but he's fighting to maintain it. He's not whiter than white.

FWIW I don't think "I'm horrible" type thoughts are helping you find a way through this.

"any doubts I had about our relationship I should have acted on before I agreed to marry him." - right, so people don't change in 20-odd years then? You only get one chance to know who you are and how you feel? Life would be much simpler for a lot of us if that were the case.

How many years have you been asking him for emotional intimacy while being met with a stone wall? Your H doesn't come out of this well IMO.

This isn't a lovely perfect man being disrespected by a nasty evil affair-haver. You didn't have sex as part of your affair - not that I'm saying EAs aren't damaging - but you seem to have suffered the maximum guilt ("most of the time we spent together was spent angsting over what we were doing") without even getting any physical release or intimacy - and you describe that as an "easy relationship"! What may I ask is your idea of a hard relationship?!?!! because your idea of an easy one is my idea of pretty damn tough and without much fun to balance it out.

If your H actually WAS that perfect you might have found the love for him would come back. Basically he has given you as little as he wants to give you, and for a long time it hasn't been enough.

Sorry you are going through such pain. x

Your affair, whatever form it took, made you discover a side of yourself you were not free to discover within the marriage. You did try to initiate more sexual freedom within the marriage, but this was a key thing your husband wouldn't engage with.

The feelings you still have are probably to do with this side of you - you are still in love with how you felt at the time. Whoever you did it with may actually be immaterial, despite how you may feel.

Guilt is quite paralysing. So is deception. It's not surprising that you feel unable to initiate change.

Berating yourself clearly isn't helping. Your self esteem sounds pretty rock bottom, and your husband's passivity in it all sounds a bit depressing (though you are still acknowledging all the good in him). He may feel that through the counselling you've both gone to, that he has done all he can. Is this true? Is there more he could do to help you feel more engaged with the marriage? Or is there more you wish he was doing to initiate some kind of change? You sound as if you think you're solely responsible for what happens now. In a way, by him saying 'marriage is for life', etc, he's saying he's loyal to his vows and is going to stay. However, just physically/passively staying is not putting anything back in or creating change. Is he a passive aggressive?

The marriage is unlikely to be nourishing for either of you or the family if you have no freedom for some degree of personal growth.

Whatever happens, wishing you loads of luck.

Op, is your dh older than you?

I can understand this all being very scarey for you - it sounds like you'd be doing this alone with no support and maybe a lot of anger from your DH. That is going to be tough.

What about getting some professional advice on your own about how it could all happen and what a split would mean financially and in terms of contact time, the family home etc.? That way you will be able to assess the splitting up option realistically and be prepared for future discussions with your DH so they are less like emotional blackmail (which it sounds a bit like, him to you I mean) and more practical.

So go and see a family law solicitor and also arrange a Relate or similar counselling session for yourself. Relate do them over the phone, within a couple of days. They would be really helpful in supporting you through a split and firstly working out whether a split is really the right thing to do for you

Hmmm - legal point here - grounds for divorcing your spouse are their:

(1) Adultery
(2) Unreasonable behaviour
(3) Desertion (at least 2 years)
(4) Separation for five years (2 years, if you both agree to divorce)

...there is no "irreconcilable differences" or "marital breakdown". So head's DH cannot be divorced on any of these grounds, though of course he might divorce her for (1) or (2), although (1) would probably involve her admitting adultery as proving it is very difficult.

Most people separate first and then divorce later.

Sorry to hear about your situation, headinamess and I am not sure what you should do for the best tbh as separation would involve one of you not living with the kids, which I think is the real problem for both of you. Good luck and take care in whatever you decide to do.

thanks jeff, for educating me

Yes, like Jeff said, most people separate first. Don't worry about the divorce bit for now, you can do that some way down the line if it goes that way.

But you have a huge issue to address first - do you want to separate from him? Is it fair to yourself to put up with a partnership where your needs for affection, love and sex are not being met?
When you say he was 'textbook' in his response to your affair - I would say he sounds cold and detached. I would expect a partner to be angry, upset, truly devastated, not easily forgiving.

Maybe what you're really suffering from is not being loved enough. Sorry you're going through this.

Oh, you can cite unreasonable behaviour for pretty much anything, that's no obstacle. Any solicitor worth their salt can steer you towards half a dozen grounds that don't have to be at all damning, they just have to be things that make the marriage unpleasant for you. Him just not buying you flowers or anything fun or personal is grounds for a start - it doesn't have to be if you don't want it to be, but if it makes you feel bad, it's grounds. And make no mistake, if one party believes the marriage has irretrievably broken down, it has, no matter what the other party says. So he believes you promise once and that's your lot forever? He promised to love and cherish you and worship you with his body, but he broke that side of the bargain. I bet if you'd known how dreary life with him would be you would not have signed up for it.

No I don't think having an affair is a good thing, even though I nearly had one myself (it was circumstances, not virtue, that prevented anything happening). However, sometimes it can fulfil a valuable function by opening your eyes. It did for me and it sounds like it may have done for you.

Thanks Jeff....good to know these things!

He was very upset, not cold or detached. Just not angry.

In tears here. In bits. Thank you for all your kind words.

Have just spoken to my husband and spelt out to him how I was feeling.

He pointed out that there have been times in the recent past when I have said the opposite, that things have been going well. He cited this weekend, which was a nice one, as an example.

Well, it was a nice weekend, in that we didn't have any rows and got on well as a family, but that doesn't mean I feel the way I want to feel. I can't be doing with 'nice' for the rest of my life.

He says he believes that I truly believe what I am saying at the time I'm saying it, but that that changes so often that he can't give up on us yet.

I think the problem is, I'm too emotional, and my emotions govern my actions. I need to grow up a bit and shut up a bit, I think.

sorry headinamess that I said he seemed cold and detached, I thought I had read that you said that, but obviously not.

It sounds as though you are going from the being nice and wanting it to all be happy for your DSs, to not being at all sure that he is right for you. That must be confusing for him so I can see him wanting to cling on to the hope that all will be fine long term.

But you shouldn't feel as though you should shut up, your emotions are valid whatever they are and how ever strongly they are felt.

What about getting some support for working out what it is YOU want for your future?

It isn't his choice at the end of the day

He cannot just choose to "not give up" if you have. One person cannot railroad another into staying togeher.

I really think you need to stop giving him mixed messages though. He is obviously seizing on these pleasant, row-free times as your relationship "working"

I think you may have to completely detach yourself and stop acting like a couple with him. That is shit but he is either too stupid or too stubborn to let himself see the difference.

I'm trying to do that, loves.

I have a session with my counsellor soon, she's trying to help me see what I really want.

I know what I want to want. I want to want to stay. I want to keep my family together. I want my boys to have a happy mum and dad.

But it seems increasingly impossible. There were so many hurts over the years that it feels like the love has eroded and I just don't think it's coming back.

It's like my head makes the decision to stay and work it out, but my heart isn't in it, and I can keep up the pretence for so long, then something happens that reminds me of why this marriage isn't enough for me, then I'm off again with my emotional outbursts.

We're both exhausted, I think. Poor man.