Can a marriage ever survive dv ??

[fairycakesandsprinkles]

Have posted on here before about DH.
We hadn't been together very long before getting married and me falling pregnant and since we had DS I noticed a change in him which I didn't like very much.
He starting becoming aggressive and it escalated within a very short period of time, coming to a head when he punched me when I had our baby son in my arms
This was the first time he had done anything like that and it shocked me to the core.
I moved out of our house the same night and everyone has told me not to look back but I can't help thinking about him all the time.
I know it might sound crazy but he knows that he made a huge mistake and is very remorseful.
He has been to see his GP and been referred for anger management.
He sends me texts telling me he loves me and he hopes that one day I can forgive him and we can be a family again.
I go round there several times a week to take DS and I can feel us getting closer.
I am wondering if a marriage can ever survive something like this?
Can someone really change or am I a complete fool for still believing in him?

Actually fairy, and I don't mean to be harsh, it wasn't just based on your concern about what next. Plus if I could remind you how very upset, hurt and angry you were when you found out about OW, how come that day you didn't think "well, y'know, we were on a break" to quote Ross and Rachel.

Let me highlight a couple of bits of your post.

"He admitted he has been a complete wanker (understatement I know)and said he does not expect me to stick around if it happens again.

He said a few times that if he did screw up again then he would be the one to move out and I could keep the house."

I think he is seeking to minimise what has been done so far. I think he is playing on your sense of how it must somehow be your fault, at least in part. IT IS NOT.

Equally you haven't gone back, which is excellent. You are keeping your options open. If he's serious presumably you can move back into the house whilst he spends some time at a friend's?

Fairycakes, I think you did an incredibly brave things when you left him and it must have been very hard.

You talked about him having counselling, but I think you need to get some help as well. You need someone to help you work though everything that has happened. You (and your ds) deserve someone who will treat you with respect and, like others, I don't believe he will do that.

x

^I'm sure he could have this woman easily if he wanted - he's good looking, has money, nice house, nice car.
But he didn't, he chose to try and make things work with me.^

Sweet, herein lies the problem. I think the way you word this is very telling. It says that you still consider him a real catch, and also that you are lucky that he has chosen you. It shows that the fact that he still wants you makes you feel special - he has all these good attributes and yet he still wants you.

This is exactly what he wants you to think - indeed I wouldn't be surprised if he had said something along the same lines to you himself. Good lord, if he gets you back he is an EXTREMELY lucky man, not the other way round. And I am afraid you are the unlucky one, the one he has decided he wants to be with because he knows he can manipulate you.

I am sure you have lots of wonderful attributes yourself, and you sound lovely. What I want you to realise is that you should be with someone who works hard to deserve you, not the other way round.

Trust me, this man is NOT a catch. Lots of men are good-looking, nice house, nice car etc, and also treat women with respect, and love, and would never dream of hurting them. That is the type of man you could and should be with.

Let's forget this issue of him sleeping with this woman, anyway, it's not hugely relevant in the grand scheme of things. It might just have been as simple as "I'm drunk. My life is shit. My wife has left me. I really, really fucked up here. Oh look, X is here, why not?" Honestly there are more pressing things to worry about.

The thing that is bothering me is - is he going to go quietly if you decide it isn't working out but he deems he hasn't "screwed up"? You said he got irritated when you tried to talk about the jealous and controlling behaviour being factors leading up to the incident (and of course these are unacceptable in themself, just wondering if he sees that?) - are you hoping the counselling/DV program will help him see the link here? What will you do if he doesn't see it?

You don't have to answer here, and I don't want to tell you what to do, just something to think about. I think your current plans sound ok, the caution especially is GOOD. Just don't let him rush or talk you into anything :)

In Why Does He Do That it also gives a rough timescale for DV programs which you might find helpful, forgot to mention that.

Apparently I'm in a minority with that then

Relevance of the infidelity, BB? I would agree with you. Except as a symptom of a bigger problem, unfortunately. I think your post is excellent and I hope that fairy will have a chance to think about your questions, even if she doesn't want to post the answers.

I just think it's indicative of the whole disrespect of fairy's husband. He doesn't care about the vows he made, he doesn't care if she finds out from someone else that he's shagging around. Because he's good looking and he earns a lot of money and has a nice house and a nice car.

Fairy - a man is so much more than material trappings. A man with a shit car and a tatty house who loved you and treated you and your DS with respect and care would be a much better catch.

I'm glad you've not gone back, you've allayed that fear at least. And I also agree with whoever said that you're a lot stronger than you think you are. Every single time you stand up to you or make your own decision, you're building a bit more of your self-esteem back. Remember that x

It is relevant, sorry - but you came onto mumsnet saying 'my husband is so sorry, should I take him back?'. Meanwhile, while you were being incredibly forgiving of him - having punched you in the face - he was off sleeping with someone else.

Fairy - you are still married and the two of you were very temporarily separated because he violently assaulted you. You didn't 'walk out on him' leaving him free to sleep around. You left for your own safety and he knows that.

I also think it's worrying that he can't understand the other issues you mention - you came on here originally about his seriously controlling and aggressive behaviour. He then went further and assaulted you and then slept with someone else, all in quite a short space of time.

I think you are being very brave in tackling this - and I know this is a man you are married too and it's very easy for us to judge from the other side of a computer. Stay strong - and get some counselling for yourself to help you think all this through.

I can see that it's indicative of the disrespect in general. And yes I'd expect someone truly full of remorse not to be going out, getting drunk and shagging around. I just think that the discussion about this one issue is distracting from the rest of it which is more immediately pressing and important to think about.

I was not aware of the difference between couples counselling and individual counselling. I'm still not entirely convinced that individual counselling would "fix" his behaviour adequately, it seems analogous to the problems encountered with sociopaths subverting and manipulating their therapy, but am willing to be overruled as I have nothing to back this up.

As far as counselling is concerned, I think it would be far more helpful for fairycakesandsprinkles to attend some therapy, as recommended by Women's Aid.

Speaking of which, have you called Women's Aid, fairycakesandsprinkles? They're probably a good starting point for talking over your situation, I really think they have the expertise to give you the best support in this.

Agree with BB on the infidelity, the infidelity is peripheral to the whole abuse issue, though also agree with everyone else that it is certainly indicative of his lack of respect.

This is like watching a car crash in slow motion :( I can't read it anymore.

I know how hard it is it break the dependancy. I so wish I did before I ended up with my face smashed in after he tried to suffocate me. There is life after leaving, you know.

You are stuck in the cycle of abuse, and you are still stuck in the phase of thinking he is some god like catch, and therefore by proxy, you are the lucky one as he still wants you :(

He wants someone to control, this man is an abuser.

nbyet I meant that a lot of women would be interested in him for those reasons alone. In fact I know they are.

That isn't why I am with him. I know he would have to pay me maintenance if we split up and I could keep the house if I wanted.

But I don't want the fucking house. I just want my family back and for all this to be over, it's making me ill.

Of course you do fairy. This must feel like living through a nightmare :(

But the man you married is not who you thought he was. No man goes from being a decent man overnight to punching his wife while she's got their baby in her arms, they really don't. This is someone who was seriously damaged long before you met him.

I am so, so sorry your dreams have turned to ash.

Fairy - As someone who has very recently left an abusive man, I can sympathise with your wondering whether or not you have done the right thing. I have stopped all contact with XP as his behaviour has not improved, nor has he taken into account what he did to me.

I am not suggesting that you follow my advice I do, however, suggest that follow everyone elses advice to not be in contact with him for a while.

It is hard, but re-reading the post about what exactly he did to you might make you realise what you have been through.

I have recently been to a lawyer and had to outline a timeline of incidents that have happened after the split and his continued harassment, let alone the violence that occured within it. Before I wrote it all down I thought that the lawyer may think I was a silly little girl dramatising a situation, once written I realised I was not.

Write down on a piece of paper ll the major incidents that happened between you, no matter how petty and inconsequential they may seem and then read it back, it may lead to some sobering thooughts. It may lead you to thinking that he is still the abusive shit he once was. and still is.

BTW, anger management will not work he is not angry, he is an abuser (as outlined by my DV counsellor)

Stay strong

Fairycakes why are you with him? I don't mean that in the simple way it sounds. I mean we all know why you shouldn't be with him - can you say why you want to be with him?

PS just in reference to what you said here:

"nbyet I meant that a lot of women would be interested in him for those reasons alone. In fact I know they are."

It wasn't so much what you said but the way you said it that I was commenting on - particularly the fact that you were saying that HE had chosen YOU over this other woman - it inferred that that made you feel lucky and special. God knows we all like to feel lucky and special but it makes me sad that you need that feeling from HIM.

It is not unreasonable to want this over. It is a horrible horrible experience that drains you. it really does.

but you have done the hard bit. It wont get any easier whilst you are living in limbo. You can't move forward yet because you are still questioning whether to go back.

Your view of him is the one you want to remember. But it isn't the true picture is it? you want him to be the man you fell in love with because not only do you want to have the life you had planned but also because you don't want to have been so wrong about him.

i spoke before of grieving and it is true. You grieve the loss of the relationship but also it is the loss of the man you loved. You realise that actually, he didn't exist. He was never there to begin with, it was just an act.

you are still in shock. yor mind is all over the place. your emotions are racing and it is no wonder you don't knwo which way is up.

It may be that even if given 10 years you will still want to try and make your marriage with this man work. That of course is your right and entirely your decision. But for now you have so much spinning in your head that no decision is best. To stay apart and to allow yourselves time to get past all of this.

Allow yourself the time to heal from this. If after a period on your own, regaining your self esteem and independance you still want to try again. then at least you will be doing so on an even footing. You will have your self respect back to full capacity, you will know the warning signs of him being controlling and you can nip them in the bud.
though hopefully while you are getting your confidence back he will be seeking help from an abusers programme.

No worries dittany - I keep thinking the more people say the same thing, the more weight it might have.
And this is an unusual thread in that everyone who is posting pretty much agrees.

I want to applaud Mamazon's post :)

I recommend listening to the song 'I used to love him' by Lauryn Hill. Actually also 'When it hurts so bad'. One of the best verses from the former, in my esteem, is:

I chose a road of passion and pain
Sacrificed too much and waited in vain
Gave up my power, ceased being queen
Addicted to love like the drug of a fiend

Torn and confused, wasted and used
Reached the crossroad which path would I choose
Stuck and frustrated I waited, debated
For something to happen that just wasn't fated
Thought what I wanted was something I needed
When momma said no I just should have heeded
Misled I bled till the poison was gone
And out of the darkness arrived the sweet dawn

Why do I want to be with him?
I enjoy being around him. 99% of the time we get along great, he's protective of me, he is a very passionate person, he's ambitious, attractive and despite what you think you know he is amazing with DS.

I know I asked for advice on a public forum but I am honestly flabbergasted at how everybody has the same opinion.

Is it not possible for him to have made a mistake (bloody huge one I know but that's all it is) and to actually love his wife and son?

He must have felt something for me to have married me right?

Im sure if you all came on here and posted only the negative things about your DP/DH everyone would think they were idiots too and tell you to leave.