The Brave Babes Battle Bus - Carry On Into Spring - BOING!!

[Mouseface]

Previous Thread

The One Before

And All Others Before That

So, this is The Brave Babes Battle Bus.

All are welcome, regardless of your background, stage of sobriety, or anything else.

I'm Mouse and have been here since June 2010, and in control of my drinking since August 2nd 2010.

You will find unconditional support here. Always.

Whatever you feel about drinking (or not), we've been in your shoes. Some more than once.

So, come say hi, come grab a seat. There is always an open door and a warm welcome on this Bus.

"im swayed by the school of thought that everyone is addicted to a greater or lesser extent to alcohol- or why bother drinking it?" There may be something in that - although I would argue that, to follow that theory too far, we would end up with a position whereby everyone is "addicted" to absolutely everything except bread, water and oranges, and it then becomes quite a useless concept. Still.

It might be so that everyone is addicted to alcohol. But, if I'm right, your problem isn't that you're addicted to alcohol. Your problem is the physical, mental and emotional repercussions of your addiction; and the fact that your addiction (if that's what we're calling it) seems to be particularly virulent, to the extent that, even when you know drinking alcohol is a bad idea, and even though you know your relationship with it is a struggle, you drink again and again. I mean, I'm addicted to coffee, but I've never been barred from a Caffe Nero. Sure, the addiction keeps me in bondage to some extent - but I'm happy to live with that. My addcition to alcohol was of an entirely different magnitude and even nature. And, when I talk about alcoholism or problem drinking as being a mental illness, that is what I'm getting at.

How DO you feel about the idea that it is, if not an illness, at least doing a convincing impression of an illness?

i'd rather not just argue about mindsets/theories. i feel rather got at. whatever my understanding, i want to stop. im sorry i dont completely agree with you but thats life really

Hi rumred don't worry about theories, I have my own (which change quite frequently), and I only really worry about them when I think I'm using them as an excuse or a justification.

Have you tried to stop drinking, or cut back on your drinking before? If you have, think about what happened then - what worked for you, and what didn't.

Good afternoon all,

brilliant sunshine here {smile]

JWN fantastic news about your DD. You must be so relieved, were there tears!
xxx

Rumred

Honestly not trying to get at you, still less argue with you. You believe what you believe, simple, and there is no need for you to agree with me or anyone else.

What I was trying to put across to you - not very well, clearly - is that, back in the day, I would have periods whereby I would try to "moderate" my drinking. I would do this in very rational ways. I would keep a drinking diary, for example; or I would plan to cut down, get used to that, and then cut down again.

If I was reading too many books and wanted to cut down; or eating too many Smarties; and I applied this method to my reading or Smarties problem, then I feel convinced it would work.

However, with drink, what would happen is that i would cut down for a day; then maybe another day; and feel an immense sense of achievement, precisely because it had been very hard. I would then be horrified to realise that, far from going back to normal, I was expected to cut down still further. And, mentally, very odd things would happen. Either something would take place which would necessitate a "ceasefire" - for example, a party, or a row with a partner, or a bad day at work - and I would, "just this once," drink like I usually did. I NEVER managed to return to my two-day success story.

Or, alternatively, the fact that I had done so well would constitute evidence that I had everything in control. Therefore, I had no need to moderate my drinking, and I would return to normal with a clear conscience.

This, I would say, is clearly twisted thinking, and it kept me drunk, and it kept me miserable, for several years. I should add that, when I was trying this, I was probably around the bottle of wine a day mark (or believed I was.) I can confirm that, over the five years that followed, it got progressively and noticeably worse. A lot of the "yets" started coming true; and a lot of the "agains" came true, too. When I finally sought help, I was 27, had been told by a doctor that I would be lucky to see 30, and in many ways a broken man - walking proof that, for me at least, logic was not going to beat my drinking. I was also, incidentally, a functioning alcoholic, and actually in the middle of training for a responsible career.

I hope this is useful to someone; but also that no one feels I am criticising them for seeing things differently to me.

it's just that it's a bit early to get into the debating bit on here- when ive been round a longer i'd be happy to, at the moment im after support and advice priimarily.

we all have differing views because we all have different lives i guess. im glad miflaw you are in control of alcohol, thats where i am aiming to get to.

ive given up for the odd month over the last 30 years, and tried to cut down, all the usual stuff. but nothing has worked thus far, and stopping does seem to mask the problem- look at me, i can just stop drinking, im ok- kind of thing, as venus said.

but i know it has to stop, yet i dont know how to stop it. with smoking logic and age together worked to help me stop. alcohol has such an effect on mood and socialising tho, it's quite a different proposition for me. ive tried helplines for advice but ended up beng told my drinking isnt problematic enouhg to justify help. hence self help books, talking to friends and now here.

anyone else found books of assistance?

Please believe me, the last thing I want is a debate. I have no interest at all in theories of why people drink - only in the consequences of the fact that some people drink, and continue to drink, when it is patently a bad idea for them to do so.

I absolutely AM NOT in control of alcohol. Because of this, I do not drink it, and my life is very happy as a direct result of that simple fact.

In my own experience, this is the surest and easiest solution for most people who struggle with drink - just walk away and stay away. The first three days can be unpleasant, and clear practical advice is what I needed, coupled with a sympathetic ear. And then - because memory fades - stay in touch with other people in the same boat, to remember what it was really like, not what the fantasy was like. And then try to live the sort of life where my bad behaviour doesn't have me running for a drink every hour. And then try to help others, because that's where gratitude is shown, and gratitude keeps me strong.

Now, I personally do that through AA, which ticks all those boxes for me. But I notice that this thread also does those things for those who will elt it.

I've read Allen Carr's book. I found it helpful, and I cut right back for a while, but it didn't 'cure' me, and I managed to overcome my good intentions eventually. I do know that I sometimes now use some of his logic and arguments to help me if I feel a slight urge.

For me, I haven't found that anything CBT based has helped - possibly because I have an addiction rather than just a bad habit. I found hypnotherapy useful, but as with Allen Carr, I managed to overcome it eventually!

"Please believe me, the last thing I want is a debate. I have no interest at all in theories of why people drink - only in the consequences of the fact that some people drink, and continue to drink, when it is patently a bad idea for them to do so."

Incidentally, for me this is true even within AA. When someone starts telling me that he or she has a physical allergy to alcohol or that it is genetic, I confess I switch off. The whys and wherefores are of no interest to me - only how to stop doing it without dying in the attempt.

haha yes i manage to overcome too. so what has worked for you venus? i find giving up fairly easy- its longer term i havent yet managed

heyrumred welcome to the bus. Don't feel got at, it's MIFLAW's way of welcoming you
People on here all have different ways fo defeating the demon (or trying to) and I'm sure you'll pick up lots of tips. I am hearing the wine bell chiming today - which is what I get for letting my guard down - so will try and keep busy tonight.
Good luck!

Yes, please don't feel got at.

As I say, in a nut shell, my advice to you for a happy life would be:

give up fighting drink. Just stop drinking.

go through a three day hangover by reminding yourself that it's going to end, that it's not going to kill you, and that none of your symptoms are going to kill you but the drinking might (I'm assuming here that you have been honest about the amount you drink and have not, for example, experienced alcoholic fitting or delirium tremens with hallucinations)

stay sober by keeping it in the day and staying in contact with others in the same boat

start sorting out the areas of your life that used to scare you into drinking - but take it easy and don't rush

when you feel ready, show yourself and others that you are grateful by giving something back and trying to help someone else who is where you are now

if you drink, don't beat yourself up, but do start again.

Any help?

honestly MIF!, havent you got a nappy to change? , give poor old rumred a break! , you dont 'get' girls do you? we like to gossip and get to know someone before we launch into the full 'debating society bit!

so, (pulls chair up and hands rumred a ), how are you?, are you married? got dcs?, work? sahm? get me drift MIF!

im right BOINGY this afternoon!, im so relieved about dd, i really did think it wasnt sinister, but the dark thoughts do appear at 2 in the morning - she is off out clubbing tonight, i think it may well get messy! , just for tonight, i dont care!, she has worried her little self sick, she does actually deserve a really good night out!

tonight is ladies evening meeting which i really enjoy, btw MIF, it has caused some quite bad feeling round hereabouts that we want to have a womens only meeting, we have deliberatly shedualed it at the same time as a nearby mixed meeting, but we have been told by some aa oldtimers that it is just 'not done', is this right or are they just being awkward?, yur opionion would be appreciated!

btw, has anyone seen those FABULOUS perspex heeled shoes on ASOS yet?, in nude, ohhhhh im hyper-ventilating!

Just looked JWN, very lovely, unfortunatly, at 5ft 8, with size 8 feet, I fear I would look like a transvestite, which is fine if you are one, but I'm not .

Please don't let that put any transvestites off this thread, I apologise.

thurso!, aint you lanky?, im a right short arse, 5.2 without me heels, i need high heels so that i can see over the bar! chip shop bar mif, chip shop bar!

OOh, I've always wanted to be 5ft 2, my sister is, my little sister who also has baby blue eyes and naturally blonde hair, and yet, I still love her.....

What's "not done"? Having women only meetings or setting it up in competition to an established meeting?

Personally, I avoid any meetings that make its attendees "special" in any way - young people, men only, etc. BUT I would (if it wss relevant to me) make an exception for women's meetings. Men are very definitely in the majority in AA (though not as much as most people think, and no more than they are in the pub) and a lot of people's behaviour in drink has been particularly complicated around and by the opposite sex. Life being what it is, and double standars being what they are, all too often the losers in such tangles are women. Therefore I completely see why some women might feel safer sharing, or even just BEING, in a man-free environment for an hour and a half a week and I think it would be churlish to begrudge them that. Such meetings also sometimes set up creche facilities for AA mums and this is probably easier to fund if everyone has at least the outside chance of being left holding the baby, as it were. So I say, go for it.

(Incidentally, the other "special" groups I approve of are where native language or sign language is a factor.)

As for setting up in competition - well, any town with more than seven meetings is likely to run into problems there. They need to get over themselves.

Just my opinion, as ever.

So, redrum, are you a SAHM and do you like to wear shoes when you drink?

Am I doing it right, JWN?

Dear Milflaw

I don't understand the acronyms here , and most of us , I imagine kick off our shoes when we drink!

You have never spoken directly to me, I think, but the longer that I am on this thread, I can understand why you say what you do, and why some people are upset, sometimes.

But, I think you really care about other people making their life unhappy with drink, and what you say does resonate through , even if it's after a while.

You will know all about shoes when your girls are older! I have two boys so don't ever get to talk high heels

at MIFLAW to really get into the spirit you need to be asking about the type of shores, ewedges? see through ASOS?

Miflaw Miflaw I always get the spelling wrong!

mif!, yeah, you're getting the idea!

as to the womens meeting - it seems from the women that are attending that they often have multiple problems ie, eating disorders/self-harm etc alongside the alcholism - very often the problems have begun quite early in life due to abuse by fathers/partners - in this respect im very lucky, i have no reason to fear men at all, i have been loved and looked after all my life (even by my second husband to some degree) - it makes me really quite angry that we have men in aa in this town who are almost bullying these very vulnerable women, in fact, i think half the problem is that some of the men seem to view aa almost as a personal dating agency , we have also being described as 'a bunch of lezzers' and 'hairy feminists' frankly it makes my resolve stronger - i can be a fiesty old bird and i will fight these womens corner!, there but for the grace of god and all that!

"it makes me really quite angry that we have men in aa in this town who are almost bullying these very vulnerable women, in fact, i think half the problem is that some of the men seem to view aa almost as a personal dating agency , we have also being described as 'a bunch of lezzers' and 'hairy feminists'"

As I always say, the main problem with AA is that they let bloody ALCOHOLICS join!

Seriously, I think it's clear to most people that, however you define "sober" apart from staying off the sauce, these men do not have very much of it. just ignore them, on this and on all other fronts. If the demand is there for a women's meeting, it will work; if there isn't, it won't make rent and it will fold. And either way, what these pricks think will be neither here nor there.

On the question of AA as a dating agency, by the way, I once told my almost-sponsor that I was interested in someone in AA. "Oh," he said. "Is it Helen?" Which shows you what AA is like in the provinces - she was the only likely candidate in the whole of the region!

Then, when I agreed that yes, it was, he said, "It's up to you, but I always think that, if you're thinking of dating someone in the Fellowship, you might as well go to the local asylum, ask them to line up all the women along one wall and say, "I'll have that one"." By which he did not mean anything against women, but more that, if one is looking for a relationship, maybe a society of people who have shown themselves to be not quite the full ticket in order to join is not the best place to look.

I wish I had kicked off my shoes when I drank. Normally, I would be too pissed to take them off and the laces wouldn't come undone.

"I have two boys so don't ever get to talk high heels"

You say that like it's a bad thing.