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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

For those who don't practice monogamy (solidgold? etc) How on earth do you not become jealous?

467 replies

poshsinglemum · 17/02/2011 22:22

I am just curious as I am the most jealous insecure person ever and it's a horrid and unattractice trait. Is jealousy natural?

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 19/02/2011 16:30

I think this thread was progressing perfectly well, despite the OP's mischievous disappearance. I think it's a good thing that there are threads where men and women can discuss their non-monogamist choices, without being vilified for them.

It turned when it became personal and SGB was asked directly about her sex life. She replied honestly, although she had no need to reply to a personal question at all....

That response didn't surprise me too much; that if someone makes it clear they are deceiving another, or it becomes obvious that this is the case, SGB would walk away. But like I said on my initial post on this thread, if someone actively doesn't want to be an extra-marital shag, then that person doesn't wait to be told and asks a few questions to make sure.

However, I can see that if you're not looking for a relationship with someone, or exclusivity - and it really is all about the sex, then it might matter less. That doesn't much surprise me.

I see the sexism angle rather differently to SGB. I think the gender politics surrounding infidelity are massive and that both men and women get hurt by the roles that society has constructed for them. I see women getting hurt by sexist men who would blanch at the prospect of their female partners having extra-relational sex and men being punished by women for not wanting as much sex as her, or for not being "manly" enough. And OW and OM who are only too happy to play into these socially constructed stereotypes.

If I were looking for a sex-only relationship, it would still matter to me enormously that some other woman wasn't being deceived by the person with whom I was having sex. I might bargain that if it wasn't me, it would be someone else, but that's for that "someone else" to decide. My view would be that there was not going to be any deceit on my time and I'm responsible for myself and myself alone.

For me, it's also a personal issue in that being a monogamous person, I refuse to be in a relationship that is non-exclusive, which
were I having an affair with an attached person, would be the case. I will not knowingly share my sexual partner, hence I've got no interest in sleeping with someone who is having other sex elsewhere. I would therefore ask a lot of questions before having sex with someone and make my position perfectly clear.

For a non-monogamous person, that personal barrier presumably doesn't exist and so then it only comes down to conscience and how one personally feels about being party to a deceit. Some posters on this thread don't feel that responsibility to strangers and some do; it's as simple as that really.

I actually have more respect for people who admit that it's not a big deal to them, than for the people who claim that it is - and then put their heads in the sand and hope that the proof doesn't emerge that a person was married all along. As long as they can pretend that they got into a relationship with a married person unwittingly then they can evade their own responsibility and play the duped victim role.

It always strikes me as odd too, that when this issue crops up, posters assume that other women are being blamed exclusively for men's infidelity and that men escape the blame completely. Yet I have never heard one betrayed partner say her H was not to blame. However "blame" isn't exclusive at all! It's perfectly possible to blame more than one person for a hurt suffered, just as it's perfectly possible to share blame. I will always challenge someone if they are blaming the OW/OM more than their faithless spouse, but I can never subscribe to the idea that an OW/OM is blameless.

What however does have me laughing out loud at your anti-monogamy rants SGB, is the way that you describe monogamous relationships. The view put forward about women being "owned" or their interests being sacrificed or subservient to their H's is not representative of my marriage or of many I know.

In fact, the majority of marriages within my friendship groups are the complete antithesis of this, with both partners having the freedom and the support to grow and learn. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, but you seem to be the only poster on this fairly representative forum whose women friends are all in marriages like this, since I assume you are talking from observed experience SGB and not just prejudice. I find that amazing and incredible. No wonder you think monogamists are "mundane" if that is your experience, but your description of monogamous relationships is not one I recognise, thankfully.

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 16:48

wwifn, I am quite offended by the head in the sand comment - I don't see how refusing to take responsibility for others' actions, or presuming that people who are looking for a one night stand are free to do so is putting my head in the sand. I cannot accept that anyone has a responsibility to ensure that others' marriage vows are adhered to.
I myself would not want to be involved with a married man, and consider that to be morally wrong, but simply getting involved with a man I have no reason to believe is married is fine.

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 16:49

OK, looking at it from another angle, I would take a man wanting to sleep with me as an implicit statement that he is free to do so.

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 16:52

There is organisational manahgement theory that looks at how managers treat their staff - one point of view is that people generally are trustworthy and hard working (type X) and the other point of view is that if you "trust" your staff they will take the piss unless you take steps to prevent it.
Maybe we are looking at the sexual equivalent?
(I am type X btw)

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 16:53

With no evidence to the contrary, do you tend to trust others, or do you have to go out and get evidence they are trustworthy?

PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 16:54

SPB...and would you really not ask any questions ?

you would take it as implicit and go right ahead ?

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 16:56

Yes, if someone was making it clear they wanted to sleep with me, I would take that as an implicit answer that they are free to do so - else why would they be in this position?
And given that, if they are a liar and a cheat, what are you going to achieve having asked the question? what new information does that provide, exactly?

PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 17:02

You wouldn't even try ?

Gosh, I don't think you are protecting/have protected your own feelings very well, SPB

taking any potential partners of your shag out of the equation (which I do, if you read my posts) my first responsibilty is to myself

I would ask

if satisfied with the answer and there were no other obvious signs he was a liar (with many blokes you can of course tell immediately) then I would go ahead

I wouldn't just ignore the isssue, nor accept someone else's version of "need to know basis"

'tis just my opinion, of course

cabbageroses · 19/02/2011 17:04

Stealth OK, looking at it from another angle, I would take a man wanting to sleep with me as an implicit statement that he is free to do so.

Really? Honestly? OMG.

When you are a couple of decades older and have more life experience you will find that there are many men who wish to have sex with women , and who are in fact married to someone else.

You are not responsible for anyone's marriage vows or commitment ( let's not get hung up on marriage as many couples live together without being married)but you are responsible for your own behaviour- that involves accepting that many men do want to have flings and it's your responsibility to make sure - if you in fact cared- that they are not committed already.

And the reason that SGB has got a bit of a hammering is that her post, a long way back, seemed to avoid the question of whether she slept with married men- she was unusually obtuse- answering along the lines of "I would not if I knew about it". This implied she was rather passively waiting to be told, rather than actively seeking that information.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 19/02/2011 17:04

Well I wouldn't. Like I said, it would be really important to me that I didn't sleep with an attached man, so I would ask questions and not just assume that in the absence of any information to the contrary, a person was single. I would also trust my judgement and if I thought there was a chance I was being lied to, then I'd back away.

The "head in the sand" comment wasn't really related to the non-monogamous dating scene in any case Stealth. It was directed at the romantic idealists who pretend to have morals about not being an OW/OM, but then willfully bargain away not being able to contact their partner at certain times, or who don't seem to think it strange that they have never visited his home, or that they never see him at weekends, or why he won't accept a friend request from her on the FB account that he's set to maximum privacy.

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 17:06

want to patronise me a bit more cabbages?

snowmama · 19/02/2011 17:06

Oh my days - we are just going round in circles.

  1. "For a non-monogamous person, that personal barrier presumably doesn't exist and so then it only comes down to conscience and how one personally feels about being party to a deceit. "

Non -monogomany does not equal to being party to a deciept. It means being clear that this sexual relationship is not exclusive . This does not automatically equate to - 'I am up for an affair'.

  1. What questions would you be asking in the bar? Is it as long as you say the words 'are you single', you are cleared to go?

Actually as SPB says - by making it clear that you are available to sleep with me you are saying you are single or you are lying. Communication includes body language and non-verbal.

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 17:11

WWIFN and Peter, I actually think we aren't arguing the same point. I too would not want to sleep with a married man. I probably wouldn't sleep with someone so soon that I wouldn't hve an idea of their homelife. However, if I did do that and it later turned out they were married I would feel bad, I would feel angry for being lied to (implicitly) but I would not feel any sense of responsibility - the onus is not on me to vet other people for availability.

PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 17:12

SPB...I made almost the exact same post upthread

the difference is, I would not accept anything implicitly

have been burned too many times for that !

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 19/02/2011 17:13

snowmama I didn't suggest that non-monogamists are more likely to be colluders in deceit, than monogamists. I said that I have two barriers; not wanting to collude in deceit and not wanting to share my sexual partner. By default, a non-monogamist won't have the latter barrier, but they might have the first.

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 17:14

"When you are a couple of decades older and have more life experience you will find that there are many men who wish to have sex with women , and who are in fact married to someone else.

"
You are spectacularly missing the point of my argument. Maybe when you are a bit older you will get it. I am aware there are men out there who are liars and cheats, however I do not feel any repsonsibilty to other people to expose them. I do not feel that asking a question about their availability adds any valiue. I do not feel that establishing their marital status before sleeping with them is my responsibility - they are the adult, they have made vows, they need to stick to.

This is all academic- i too am an adult who has made vows and will not be lying to anyone else about being single.

cabbageroses · 19/02/2011 17:14

Stealth- consider yourself lucky that's all I said! Your post was pretty breathtakingly naive TBH.Smile

I simply do not know how you can say- presumably in all seriousness??- that any man who approaches you to flirt, snog, have sex, must in fact be single, free, available.

Do you get out much?

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 17:16

PeterAndre (sorry, can't take you seriously with that name :o) then it's all down to protecting yourself. I wouldn't feel any great compunction to preotect myself- maybe if I had been on the other side of the fence I would (no comments about your situation, I don't know you). If I found out I had been lied to I'd think "what a shit" and feel sorry for his OH but I would not feel responsible, or bad about myself in any way (unless I had had warning signs which I had ignored)

PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 17:16

give over, cabbage

it is possible to pick up on points made without resorting o such juvenile comments as "do you get out much?"

you just reduced your argument massively there

cabbageroses · 19/02/2011 17:17

Stealth- lol- when I am much older I will be dead- I am already decades older than you!

"I do not feel that establishing their marital status before sleeping with them is my responsibility."

Great. what a fine moral code you have.

PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 17:18

SPB, I don't have a "situation"

not a recent one, anyway Grin

and you know me Wink

cabbageroses · 19/02/2011 17:18

Peter- give over yourself.

I made that point because Stealth was talking like a woman who has never ever been exposed to any of the behaviour she is blabbing on about.

wileycoyote · 19/02/2011 17:20

I have to say, the main reason why I wouldn't knowingly sleep with a married man is because I would be likely to get hurt, not because I feel bad for the other woman/guilty.

It is the person in the relationship's responsibility to not renage on the monogomy deal (if applicable in their relationship)

StealthPolarBear · 19/02/2011 17:20

"I simply do not know how you can say- presumably in all seriousness??- that any man who approaches you to flirt, snog, have sex, must in fact be single, free, available."

Again, missing the point.
I am saying that that is what he is saying to me
By doing all this, he is saying "I am free and available"
I do not need it spelling out
If he spells it out, he will either be telling the truth or lying.
In the absence of other evidence, I will have no way of telling which
So what does it achieve?

PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 17:20

"blabbing" ?