Valentine Bombshell - I'd appreciate the irony if I wasn't so devastated

[ValentineBombshell]

MN regular & like most I guess can't believe I'm posting this but am up with unwell baby and my head & tomach are churning.

Dh admitted last night he was attracted to someone else at work & they had kissed. Doesn't know what he wants. Everything now up in the air. Have gone from A to Z in my head where we're divorced & the dcs and I are living on our own. Am shaky inside & my ribs hurt. Am just so, so hurt.

You must eat. It will clear your mind to have that energy.

Huge hugs to you.

I think that the overriding feeling as I'm reading this thread is one of a very selfish, insecure guy. If this was the first time- Okay. But this is the third time he's emotionally attached himself to someone else! He is not careful of your feelings, and that is very sad.

Thanks for all the messages, am taking everthing that people are saying on board. LeQueen there is a lot there in what you put, although quite painful to read that I'm with such a selfish man....but not something I haven't be thinking myself when I've been allowing myself to be angry. Thankfully that isn't the sum of his parts but at the moment though that is exactly what he is.

Last night, we talked after the dcs went to bed. He had rung two Relates but next appts were April or June & the April one was at kids bedtime/work meeting. But he's also being contradictory as he says he doesn't want to talk to a stranger and yet has no one he can talk to - except me. Whilst we need to talk I also think we need some impartial help so at 2am last night looked up some BACP counsellors, showed him & emailed them to him at work, as weneed to do something now (April/June are just too far off) - had an email back saying thanks this morning. I said it would be best to see someone in the day whilst dcs at school, take dc3 to a childminder, & he take time off work - if work was tricky then he should say it's better than signing off with stress. He says he felt really positive & happy after talking with me. He keeps saying he can't believe how great/nice I'm being when he's a twat/being pathetic (agree!) but I don't think I am, but am just trying to get him to talk.

This is just not a side to him that I often see. Usually he is incredibly chilled, humorous & strong (I?m the worrier & planner), but the corrolory to this side of him he?s ambivalent & indecisive and that's a frustrating as hell. It was clear when he came home he'd been crying & he did again when we talked. He said he'd felt positive about us all day but then on the way home he suddenly didn't. He said he knows he's got a beautiful wife/gorgeous children/lovely home - the dream - so why is he being like this? I asked him if he'd spoken to OW, he said just to say VB know but was a hectic day & that was it. I asked what she said but he just said not much. In many ways I don't want to hear about her anyway ? I don?t get the feeling this is some grand passion - but I don't want him holding back the truth either. He said looking back it?s the excitement of it (translate as ego boost) and he knows that that would wane in any relationship ? which is what so many have said on here. ? but I can?t be doing with a man like that. It?s not a ?character trait? I want in my life & he neds to do some work if we?re going to survive. Just hope he gets that.

Sorry for the ramble!

Thanks for updating VB. This must be a horrible, shocking time for you.

I have a feeling you're pinning too much on the counselling, or at least couples counselling. What might be much more apposite is solo counselling, for your H. There is nothing in your posts to suggest that this problem is triggered by relational discord and everything to suggest that this is his personal problem.

What has he said he is going to do about this relationship with the OW now? Is he going to end it with her, or is he ambivalent? You need to know much more about this relationship and the OW herself and while I understand that your focus last night was him and your relationship, it's interesting that she wasn't mentioned by him much either.

Sometimes that happens because the H wants to keep the OW and the relationship in a kind of bubble-wrapped shrine; unsullied by the comments of mere mortals. Sometimes it's because the unfaithful party doesn't attribute a huge amount of relevance to the OW herself and knows that it's more about the adventure she represents, than the person she is.

An objective onlooker can see that this OW is not particularly special, because almost anyone would have fitted the bill for a man who likes new beginnings and the thrill of a new adventure. However, you need to know how your H is seeing this. It is good that he at least has the presence of mind to acknowledge that bright beginnings tend to fade in time and become normal relationships.

From your point of view, having had this chat, don't neglect yourself and your own needs. Don't be afraid to attach some conditions to him staying in a relationship with you. He really doesn't hold all the cards here. A minimum condition for your safety is that he ends this relationship now and in the longer term, gets some therapy to find out why this keeps happening.

If you're still insistent on couples counselling, I'd do some research of your own, double-checking the apparent lack of appointments at Relate (but some centres also do telephone and online counselling) and speaking to private practitioners yourself. However, as with all counsellors, choose wisely and ask questions about their experience of infidelity and especially a person's individual vulnerability to it.

What a bombshell indeed. Really feel for you right now, VB.

I have to say, I find it terribly depressing that a seemingly good bloke in a happy relationship could be this selfish. How can he 'not know what he wants'? He must be really very, very immature. Surely he can see that it just is not worth breaking up a marriage and family for a sleazy snog with a random woman at work. If he is unhappy in the relationship, he must articulate and deal with that issue, not seek solace in sleazy office gropes. Hopefully counselling can help with that.

To be honest, the 'I'm a twat' thing just makes me feel even more cross on your behalf. No time for weak words! He needs to ACT - and sharp-ish - if he wants you to retain any shred of respect for him (which your marriage will not survive without).

Very best of luck.

Been to the GP, who also happens to be have qualified as a paediatrician, dc3 has tonsillitis and reflux. Has prescribed antibiotics and then going to see me in her lunchtime tomorrow to get him weighed so she can also give him proper meds for the reflux. On that side of things brilliant.

Also asked her about counselling, and it's offered at the surgery, but not couples counselling. Waiting time of 4-6 weeks.

WWIFN maybe I am pinning too much on the couples counselling, (I know it can be hard to find the right person), but I just wanted a vehicle to get us to open up and talk and to feel like we were doing something. I also feel like he's wanting me to be his counsellor or wave the magic wand and make it all right again. But yes I think he needs individual counselling but whether he'll go or not, I don't know. I could try and make it a condition but really he should want to go for himself.

This morning if I hadn't had to sort dc3 out I would have cried my eyes out. But this afternoon I feel stronger somehow. I feel at the minute that the dcs and I would be ok on our own, I even pictured packing a bag for dh. But I don't think that is the way I want to go (yet).

I've also had some more thoughts about the OW. DH has obviously disconnected from me in order to 'allow' himself to do this, (he would say the disconnect came before) either in his head or to her or both - and that does hurt/anger me. He said that he had ended it but also said he didn't know if he wanted to (also hurtful and very likely to be untrue/tested given he doesn't know what he wants). That's why the thought of him leaving has come up, make him focus his mind...but then there is all these other reasons not to do something rash, not least for the children.

On the postive side, the relationship-imploding-diet means I've lost 9lb since Sunday!

And I meant to say thank you to all for the considered comments, even if I don't mention you directly, I am reading, filtering, taking ideas on board, it really does help. As do just the kind words

[damn, now I am welling up!]

Hi again, am just updating, am surprised by how much just writing down like this helps. Well, mostly it's going in the right direction/we have been incredibly open and close, some might not be able to understand this but we held each other and talked long into the night. Dh says he wants to be emotionally & physically close & I did too. Nothing he said was very surprising ? except maybe the extent of feeling he has for me (which unsurprisingly I felt was in doubt) but I think I surprised him/myself with some things I've kept back (maybe will talk about this later) - and in my mind we're arriving at some fundamental questions. The key one being what's going to stop this again?

There needs to be, as MNer have said, self realisation about WHY he does this - and about acceptable boundaries - AND actively fighting for me .... I'm doing the hard work on this (I?m in practical mode, hence the ?doing?/he is thinking), and I'm not prepared to settle because I am his comfort blanket. He still needs to step up and and ACT as Tical said but we?re at the stage of talking to get it is a big step for someone so contained to unthaw as he has.

Ok the negatives/bit where he comes over a total twat: A friend who is keeping me positive said ?what's going to stop it is self realisation. He loves you. He's realised it, even with the intensity of a new relationship. This is all good news!? But to my mind not, that?s too generous, dh said he contemplated me not finding out (as before), it continuing for a month or so and then going on as normal (or presumably off for good with OW ? a thought I had afterwards). He was wincing when he said this.

The other BIG negative is we looked at the Shirley Glass website together, as it?s those sort of questions he/we need to face up to, and it?s quite clear he ticked nearly every box on the emotional affair questions. That whilst he had not been negative about me (he?d said I was beautiful/lovely) they had connected about their unhappiness in the marriage, that obviously he had not been open with me about this developing relationship and the worst [sad}, that he thought he was in love with her. He then went on to question that ? that at that moment he felt very little for her, that when he compared what he felt for me it wasn?t love, it was the excitement of it. I personally think love is what he?s termed this heady rush & ?legitimise? it , so it isn?t what it is, which is very tawdry (again thanks to MN for giving me that insight)

It?s been easy to get the big negatives down on the page, but am going to try and post the encouraging signs too to give balance (if dc3 will let me, thanks to the antibiotics am on the 5th nappy change this morning!)

Hi,

New here but have a bit of past experiance, I dont want to insult your other half but he sounds like he is being very self indulgent to me! it's all about him and because you will be so obviously hurt and paying more attention to what he is saying (obviously!)he's basking in the drama and the effect it is having (why else mention a woman from 10 years ago?).

The fact he liked this other girl years ago and let that hang about like a bad smell just says all that to me.

He's looking for attention and drama, you have children to look after and life to live he probably felt a bit ignored (i'm not saying this is right at all). Possibly he needs a short sharp shock to the system, get mad let him know how lucky he is to have you but that it's a privelage not a right, the first sign you are going cold could well put him on the back foot very quickly, sometimes men need to be remined the only unconditional love there is, is for children.

Anyway best of luck and love if i've got the situation completely wrong, just ignore me :)

No, you're not off the mark, TangledScotland . Someone else suggested similar (will have to go back & check) so I pointed that out to him, that he's getting a thrill from all of this, including the talking between us. He said the situation with OW was sort of the thrill but that he's just so happy we're connecting again, that he's relieved.

One big thing that has come up is us spending more time together as a couple and as a family. We haven?t been. Friend pointed out it?s always me out with the dcs or dh out with the dcs, but not all together. I think we thought we were giving each other a break but it?s led to us neglecting us. In the evenings he?s been unwinding (stressful job) by playing a computer game/watching tv once dcs were in bed/so I?ve been on MN/or he?s so tired he?s gone to bed. He did say he wanted to do things together as a couple a few weeks back but it was a half-hearted effort on both our parts.

Still no firm commitment to counselling. Think he?s frightened & both sceptical (observed his father go through a breakdown yrs ago/counselling not helpful)

However, I felt he needed to know what I was thinking & feeling and let him read this thread (so far)? there is nothing here that I felt should be hidden. I said he might find the comments harsh but enlightening & he said he thought they were very fair/not harsh at all. He agreed about the selfish & immature assessments. Pointed out that I had said a while ago he didn?t behave like a almost 40 year old, which at the time was a positive.

I have ordered the Not Just Friends book & he has agreed to read it with me. Making plans to spend more family time together & if ILs are around (they live about 90 mins away) go out as a couple. Might have to confide in them for this - P left it open to me - what do you think? I think they will be angry with P but I want them to give him a big hug - & will be desperate for us to work it out.

It sounds like you are making some really positive steps and certainly "feels" like you two will get past this, relationships do always need to be worked at and we need to remind ourselves why we love our loved ones, making that extra bit of effort at times to make them feel special but I also have this point to make.....

Life is not a movie! I think we get so caught up these days in media led hype about what "love" should be and it's rarely close to reality, life is not always going to be fab sex, easy money, great standard of living, that's not a real life, the internet only adds to this, when your partner shows you no love and ignores all the little things you do for them you can just log on to a dating site and be told how sexy and wonderful you are,dangerous! ( i realise this is not your situation but it is lots of peoples).

Taking time to be grateful for what we do have, really looking hard in the cold light of day what life would be without your OH and realising that sexy and unknown (ow/om) becomes ordinary in the end, then you discover there is no going back and you've lost what really matters :(

Source: Useless ex husband who has never had a happy year since we split up almost 12yrs ago

Has your DH got a really good male friend (who is also a friend of the marriage) he could talk to and go out with. This was one thing that was lacking for my DH and he ended up talking to OW , thought it was real love (but actually he was in love with the feelings of being in love).

Couple time is essential, the couple/marriage should be a priority over everything including the DC at times, because without the marriage/couple the family is broken and along with that all the known security the DC have etc.

Since my DH's affair/midlife crisis etc, we do not have the laptops on in the evening - both of us were on them too much and neglecting eachother. We try and get weekends away on our own as much as possible (have 4DSs). DH is still struggling mentally with a lot of things, childhood issues, stress from running own business, what he did re the affair (believe me, he was absolutely vile towards me at the time, some his behaviours at the time were beyond appalling (took our DSs to OW's without me knowing there was an OW), unprotected sex, I could go on - he cannot believe how he became that man and struggles with that). He has taken it upon himself to go for more counselling (his best friend also encouraged him to do this).

I have taken up horseriding again and getting my therapy that way. You have to do something just for you, that makes you feel good.

Hope the baby is better soon

Thank you TangledScotland, the situation with your ex-husband sounds very sad & thank you too for the generous words of encouragement.

I'm aware we've still got lots to do. He's still got lots to do on himself. We haven't yet got to the fundamentals of what's going stop him doing this again. I have an inbuilt 'stop', he doesn't which certainly gave him pause for thought last night.

Countingto10, God that sounds tough and you must be very strong have not walked away. Glad too that your dh has reached a realisation of how appalling he was and is hopefully contrite and grateful for having an amazing wife. Am hoping Dh reaches that point. There are signs but the thrill of it is so fresh/he's still processing/facing up to stuff.

We talked a little about the OW. She said that maybe it's good there is half term coming up (dh is off) as he can spend time with me and see what he wants -

[just realised on rereading it sounded like I was saying I'm amazing ]

The situation is sad for him ValentineBombshell although I have little sympathy lol! But he hoped the grass was going to be greener and found out it wasn't, I went out planted my own lawn and it's doing very nicely :o.

I don't think this will be your story though, I have a feeling he will come to his senses from what you've said

Tangled - very funny about your lawn, Im pleased its doing so well!!!

@ your lovely lawn

Just considering what you said Countingto10 about having a friend to confide in, no he doesn't, which he feels keenly. I've said that continuing contact/confiding in OW is the route to divorce and he himself knows that. We have a very good mutual friend who's been letting me vent and really IS being a friend of the marriage - but dh tried talking but it wasn't helpful - maybe because I'm more connected to the friend on serious stuff than dh. Dh has considered and rejected a few others, old friend has recently separated from his wife and is shacked up with OW (we haven't had much contact recently) and the other option is a friend at work, but they only know dh and OW, not me, so not necessarily a good port of call either.

Maybe his parents?

I think he really does need a good counsellor then, he's obviously "filling up on the wrong fuel" as our counsellor said to my DH at the time.

My DH has made much more time for his best friend now (who has just separated from his DW - no affair though) - their friendship has helped both of them and I have a better relationship with his friend too since it all happened (I think DH was painting me very black to him too ).

I think a counsellor is the way forward possibly for him too, you need someone who can be completely objective and not supply answers that they think will please him. Or possibly his parents if you feel they will not sugar coat or spare his feelings

He absolutely has to break off personal contact with OW, I really liked the "wrong fuel" comment from counting10 I think it hits the nail on the head, you have someone you fancy a bit flirting and sympathising with your marriage issues suddenly a person you found attractive almost falsly becomes more, we all like our ego to be stroked (even woman lol)but it's completely the wrong way to go and on that point he needs to grow up and drop it now. If a marriage doesn't work out there is time for new relationships after but the "we fell in love and couldn't help it"(this is a general statement I know your OH didn't say this) line is complete bollocks, if you are not happy fix it or decide it cant be fixed but don't use someone else as a reason.

Lol I seem to have ranted again, not got a lot of house work done on day off, oops!

Wise words from both of you. I really feel I need to push this with dh.

Aware I'm giving edited highlights and there was so much that was good and affirming said last night that I'm having trouble remembering as it's the negative stuff that remains with me. But recalled something else he said about the 2nd time he had an EA ten yrs ago, now, that I think about it, hurts more than last night, maybe because I was focused on the here and now. He said in hindsight he was glad I hadn't gone to New York for 10 days as in my absence he felt the line would have been crossed ie. he would have had sex. I've haven't felt the need to probe this one as it's in the past but clearly we do. I can't believe he is so weak willed and careless with our relationship and just so bloody stupid.

God, we - HE - needs counselling if this is going to work.

Quick question VB, was this the first time you heard about EA ten yrs ago?

He confessed to it on Sunday when it all came out. Said he thought he was going to his grave with that, but was obviously doing the whole honesty/confession thing, and not by halves . He thought not to tell me, that this was bad enough, but then it just came out with it all.