Gaslighting....how do you know?

[fairyfart]

How do you know if it's happening to you?

I must admit that when it came to getting my ex out I took the easy step of getting my father involved. Previously trying by myself had been hopeless - once he left for a while (though later I found he had not spent the time thinking over the relationship, but had taken one of his girlfriends on holiday to stay abroad with his parents) and then he stayed on the sofa for a couple of weeks, and then moved back in. During that time I had begun to feel myself again, but it wasnt long before things reverted back to how they had been, and in fact got alot worse. The next time he threatened to kill me if I left. Later still he apparantly left but would turn up standing over my bed in the middle of the night. He claimed that the flat we rented was his house and he wasnt going anywhere (despite my having paid for the rent as he had deliberately walked out of a job where they didnt treat him with the respect he felt he deserved - another constant theme throughout our marriage) When my dad kicked him out he finally left, but probably because it was a flat owned by my parents. He still continued to abuse and try to control me for a further 5/6 years, including during apparant 'mediation' to sort out him working on access to DD. It wasnt until last year, when I finally took him to court MYSELF and I stopped feeling frightened of him, that he has not caused any problems. I still dont trust him not to do something even now, but I am not living in fear any more and it is such a good feeling. My mother, who sees him when my daughter has contact, still says she wouldnt trust him to take her alone yet - she thinks he is still on good behaviour after a year. We have taken a prohibitive steps order to prevent him taking/seeing DD without my say so, for protection. He WOULD go to the school and take her, not because he wanted her, but just to frighten/control/punish me. She has a serious medical condition and needs constant medication/treatment, but that wouldnt concern him. He loves her in a very abstract way, because she is HIS daughter, not for who she is. He likes to bask in her glory. She is scared of him, but loves him cos he is her dad, but she knows how he treated me, and that it was very wrong.

I know plenty of DV victims who think they can win, I think it's a defence mechanism. I think it has something to do with feeling stupid and so needing to win one battle, trouble is none of the abusers give a shit.....as long as they're still there they've won.

I finally got the time to read your whole thread, FF. I'm delighted to hear you've decided to force a change and hope things go well for you and DCs while at your brother's.

I also hope, passionately, that being out of the 'game' for a while will give you enough perspective to see what's been happening and to get cold, clear advice on what to do next.

Cold & clear will be good for you right now - plenty of logic and, hopefully, warm support. Please don't be too proud to seek and accept advice, particularly from specialists like Women Aid :) Good luck.

It is sad Bumblequeen but having read yet another article this morning on domestic violence which involved physical violence I can't help but feel if all other aspects of abuse, emotional, verbal, mental, financial and sexual were highlighted in the same way then more women would realise the situation they are in in not normal. It seems that the media highlight what they feel carries the most impact but to a woman in an abusive relationship, one without actual physical violence, the impact on her can be equally as damaging.

FF
stop arguing with people who are trying to help

Go back to the solicitor and tell them that the situation is worse, and you need to find out what your rights are.
Do not just give away your rights to the house, he has a responsiblity to house you and your children, so don't think he will just get the house because it's in his name.If you want to fight him, that's where the fight will be, you don't have to "give in" and leave
If you have just been to the solicitor once, they will have given you generic advice, not specific advice.
Things have clearly moved on since.

good luck

So much excellent advice and amazing personal histories here FF - am stunned that you think you are being railroaded into "losing" this "fight".

What you are failing to grasp is that you staying at all would be a victory for your H. He needs to feed off you, off your confusion, off his control over you and off the knowledge that he can mess with you. If you leave, or make him leave (whichever) - he has lost because he has lost his victim.

You cease to BE a victim when you walk away from him. All the while you stay and "fight", you are still his victim - but worse, so are your DC - maybe not now, maybe not directly but they are his victims too and the longer you stay the more victimised they will become. OR - they will decide that the way to no longer BE a victim is to become the controller, the abuser - what a lovely prospect!

I hope you manage to get this sorted out LONGTERM - not make some feeble effort of moving out because you think it will make your H start to behave better; it might - he will want to get you back into his clutches again - but not for long.

ff you seem to have the obsession with winning that i recognise only too well from being in a relationship with a N.

the thing that is really annoying about Ns is they will always 'win'. for the N it is actually a pretty effective strategy. all you can do is take away their attention (which they hate with a vengeance) but they will all too soon devalue you for doing this and find a new source of attention to keep them happy.

it really is like dealing with a toddler who has not yet progressed to the stage of empathy. trying to get them to feel guilt / remorse / regret just will not work as those are colours that are just not within their emotional canvas.

many celebrities and successful business people are Ns which just goes to show what a successful way of being it can be in our 'me' society that rewards self-centredness, posturing and boastfulness.

the only way to survive this and move forward is to disengage with the game / competition with the N and instead refocus your attention on people who understand the value of kindness and nurture.

leave the Ns to each other and lets get on with our more carey-sharey lives.

oh by the way a N will often feign guilt / remorse / regret etc etc. but really this is just ammo to manipulate you and the world to get the response they want. step away from the script and you will come to see through it.

My ex husband started walking our dog at the same time every night, he never had walked the dog before at all! When I questioned him about it he was a real dramma queen, said ff's I try to help out because you are pregnant and all you can do is accuse me of being up to something! Slamming doors followed going in the huff not talking and so on, anyway! next day a good friend came round and said , look husband is going to kill me for saying but every time he's come home from work in the last two weeks your OH has been in phone box (this was 12 years ago he didnt have mobile) talking.

After that it was only a matter of time until i found out he was cheating, never heard the term gaslighting before but I think it's great, he did that to me for months, lots of woe is me denials it's actually laughable when i think how rubbish he was at covering his tracks

Tangled

There are so many posters sharing their lives with you Fairy

I hope that you appreciate, we are all only trying to help you by sharing parts of our lives.

Thanks for the :( Mouseface but thankfully it was a long time ago and i'm so much happier now than I would ever have been if it hadn't happend and were were still together maybe thats the point i suppose :o

It's not possible to get the last word with an N. Even when the truth jumps up and bites them in the arse they will find a way to blame you or frame it in some way that satisfies their own ego needs.

My ex recently stood in front of a judge and changed one story three times in the same hearing just so that his basic premise (that I am an evil puppeteer who spends 24 hours a day 7 days a week manipulating the children into hatred of him) would hold water. The judge didn't buy it thank god. I'm sure he has heard the same old same old many times before.

ExH can't accept that he is perfectly capable of alienating people all by himself with no help from anyone else. To do that would mean his entire world view would collapse and he would have to accept responsibility for his own actions. He would have to accept that words he says and tones of voice he uses have an effect on other people. At the moment he insists that he is the only person on the face of the earth who feels any emotional response to any word, threat, action, etc. He is the only person with a right to feel anything. Everyone else has to sit back and take whatever he dishes out and no-one has a right to feel hurt or scared or whatever.

We have been ordered into family therapy. Can't wait.

Hi
My first post and I have a mini freak out ongoing.
I was reading the threads as my dH and I going through a 'tricky patch'.Well we have quite a few really.
We are bickering about who is the most tired, who looks after the kids most (we have 2), we don't have enough sx (he thinks this, but I thought 2-3 times a week was ok?)...usually the arguments are not in front of the children, but it always results in him ignoring me for days (4-5)on end.I mean completely ignores me.
I really feel he is exhibing traits of NPD hence the freak out.
Everytime I try and tell him how I am feeling about things (being ignored, feeling like the housekeeper, not his wife) he responds with...'you're wrong to feel like that' or when I tell him his how his behaviour upsets me, he tells me I am 'mad' or 'mental' which is infuriating and then I get angry. This justs give him more ammunition telling me my anger is a sign I am 'unstable'.Also he states he is 'justified' in ignoring me because of my unreasonable behaviour!
So, I am no angel, but I really just want my feelings to be heard by him. He says this means I just want to be 'right'.
Aaaggh!Is he a bit NPD or just annoying!
:(

Welcome :) :(

What you've written suggest an over-entitled, passive-aggressive twit who could possibly be shocked into re-evaluating his priorities. Even that needs to be tackled with a major wake-up call and steely determination -it can work, if you both want it to.

Or you may be talking about a hopeless case of lost-in-his-own-horrible-world, in which case you're possibly in for a bumpy ride to sanity.

Care to share more?

I should have advised you - as often repeated in this forum, with very good reason - to get hold of Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?". Your H is in there. The book helps you understand a bunch of stuff, and gives you a framework to work out where you're at. It doesn't tell you what to do. And you shouldn't let him read it.

Looking forward to your own thread

Look at this site on personality disorders too. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... From what you've written, I think you may have a duck on your hands.

Well done CoffeeDodger. You have expressed it so well -- 'the world seems so much brighter'. I found myself standing up straighter and breathing deeper once exH and I had parted ways; the difference it made extended to such little details, many of which I hadn't even noticed, like how I breathed.

FF you only go around once. This isn't a dress rehearsal.