My sister's DH tried to get her to have an abortion at 23 weeks

[motorway]

I've name changed for this but I feel a bit deja vu because I posted about almost exactly the same thing a copule of years ago.

My sister's DH has been married before and already has teenaged children. Before they got married they had quite a lot of conversations/arguements about her wanting children and him not wanting any more. She (stupidly/naively) 'forgot' to take the pill and got pregnant. This resulted in loads of rows, and eventually he persuaded her to have a termination at 18 weeks. Amongst his arguments were him being too old, it not being fair on his existing children (even though they have a half sister with their mum and they love her to bits), they can't afford it (even though they both have very good jobs and end up with £1000 per month disposable income AFTER all the bills, mortgage, ex wife payments, etc have been paid). But the money is beside the point, it basically boiled down to him not wanting any more children. I posted about this at the time because she has such a horrible time, and went through with the termination because she was scared of bringing up a child on her own. I was the only person she told so I've had to keep that secret since. Part of him convincing her that a termination would be the best idea was him saying that once they were married he might change his mind about having more kids.

Anyway, they got married, and seemed fine but she phoned me last week and said she's pregnant again - 24 weeks gone! I was excited for her but she burst into tears saying that her DH hates her for becoming pregnant again, he has three times convinced her to book an appointment for another termination, but three times saw how upset she was at the thought of it and they didn't go. But then he booked her another appt at 23 weeks and took her there. She had 50 minutes of counselling, during which time she said she could feel the baby kicking. She has also in the meantime been going to antenatal appointments and had even found out the sex of the baby at the 20 week scan. Her DH hadn't gone with her to any appointments and refused to even look at the scan photo.

Anyway, quite rightly the counsellor said she definitely couldn't go through with a termination so they went home and her DH kept shouting at her saying she's ruined his life, wished he had never met her, etc. Part of me understands how he much feel cheated because he's had his kids, and now he's got his own lifestyle where he can go out all the time, go on lots of holidays, etc - he's also a very anxious person and is always tidying up - I think he may have mild OCD - so the thought of a baby 'messing that up' would probably really stress him out. But its happened, his wife is pregnant, they are both healthy, well off, etc so he needs to deal with it, and how he's treated my sister is shocking I think.

I asked her why she had kept the pregnancy secret for so long - they've known since October and she said she daren't tell anyone because she didn't want to end up with everyone slagging off her DH.

I know she was very stupid and not fair on him to 'forget' her pill twice as she knew he didn't really want a baby (this time she thought as they were married it wouldn't matter - she still should have told him she'd missed a pill). But how he's treated her since has, in my opinion, amounted to emotional abuse/bullying. I don't think they should stay together - they disagree on one of the biggest decisions of your life.

Anyway, I spoke to her this morning and I offered to go with her to tell our parents - she was nervous of telling them of her own because they would wonder why she had kept it secret so long and would get really upset. But she said this morning that her DH has suggested they both tell them together. I think this is so she can't tell them what he's been like. She's also said that he doesn't know that she's told me and she's going to 'tell me' at the weekend and I have to act surprised as though I didn't know. I'm guessing so that he can put on a happy face and pretend he's fine with it. I want our parents to know what she's been going through because I think they might be able to better convince her that her DH is being a bully. But that would be betraying her confidence and should I just stay out of it?

Thanks for reading if you've got through all that!

"WHat's done is done and he will probably be delighted when baby arrives and all of this will be forgotten. "

"WHen baby arrived he begged me never to mention again the way he behaved. Our little girl is the image of him and of his mum - he absolutely dotes on her. He is a great dad."

you can certainly hold onto that and maybe keep out of it til baby arrives.

but be ready to support - in case his reaction is not one of joy .... it looks more like "your baby you get on with it i never wanted it" will be reaction - but who knows?

stand back, tell your sister you there for her, and keep a watchful eye for H reaction when baby arrives...

I agree too
had he had the snip maybe your sister would have come up with the decision to split years ago so she could have gone and find herself a loving partner keen on starting a family
Doesnt matter now, she was obviously desperate (in a good way!) to have a child and good for her
She needs support and to know that if she wish to go solo there will be help for her
Sorry to say but either he pulls himself up fast and come to some sense or no good to have him around

D'you know what? Your sister would be better off without him. She's lucky to have a supportive sister like you IMO. She is probably worth ten of him. She needs to concentrate on her flesh and blood IMO. By that I mean the baby she is carrying which will be something of her own flesh and blood. I know this sounds mean but if she has such a good job then she can afford to go it alone. Also is he afraid he might have to pay her out if it came to divorce? He sounds very materialistic to me. He sounds like a real pain and it might do him good if she left him to cool off for a while.

Just be there for her.

Nothing else you can do.

"Clearly both are to blame for the pregnancy - him for not having the snip and her for "forgetting" her pill but only he is to blame for his abhorrent behaviour."

Completely agree with what SoupDragon says here.

I hope that he is coming around to the idea and can be supportive. I think you should quietly support your sister and give him a chance to step up to his responsibilities and if he doesn't then she should leave him.

I love all you MNers, but I honestly sometimes feel like the responses on here are more suited for Jeremy Kyle/Jerry Springer.

OP isn't asking for opinions on her sister or BIL - most posts acknowledge that sis shouldn't have gotten pregnant against wishes of H, and I think we're all in agreement that his behaviour since has been pretty disgraceful.

However, no-one can go back in time and change any of that. What OP wants to know is whether her intervention now is appropriate/needed/meddling. Can we not just deal with that and leave the lynch mob mentality aside?

So he has to go thro a surgical procedure because we can't expect to trust the person we marry? How mad. If she was using contraception, and told him, surely to god it would be weird of him to then say 'I'll just have an op to make sure you're not lying'. She should have left him, not tricked him.

Ok, NoWayNoHow. Fair comment.

I don't think the OP should meddle. I don't think that tale-telling to the parents is necessary. I think that being there for the sister is important, and she should be supported. But I don't think it's the OP's business to be any further involved than that.

need any help?

You can't effectively bully her into telling your parents, or tell them yourself. Would she do as she's told if her parents said leave him? Is it possible she's the sort who has been raised to do as she's told and so ended up in this position?

Just support her, be someone she can trust and help her confidence.

What a nasty Cunt that man is. Your poor sister. How dare he put her through this, poor thing. He sounds evil, it's all about him by the sound of it. Your sister sounds very vulnerable and he seems to have a hold on her.

You sound like a great sister and she is in need of all your love and support.

I predict that he will go into a total meltdown once the baby is born and hopefully your sister will find her strength and tell him to Fuck Off.

At the moment I would say, that you shouldn't say too much to your parents, however you should confide in someone who is totally separate from the situation as you also need some support in dealing with all this. It must be very hard for you.

If this man's behaviour gets even worse than it already is, then you should involve your parents and other family, as this bully is thriving on the secrecy. Once everyone knows what he is like, he wont be able to cope with that and will prob just abandon your Sister, however I think that would be the best thing for her.

Personally, I think your Sisters marraige is over and it's only a matter of time before it implodes. I wouldn't trust a nutter like that around a baby, anyway. Your Sister needs some support from her GP as well becasue this IS domestic violence. She needs support in building her stregnth up and she must not let herself be treated like this.

Best Wishes OP.

OP, thinking about what grumpypants said, there might be another way to look at his behaviour if you're still considering speaking to you parents.

Is it possible that his reaction to the baby is basically transference of anger? I'm willing to bet that he knows full well she didn't "forget" to take the pill, and is probably furious because he thought he could trust her, and she's betrayed that trust not once, but twice.

Could he have been trying to hurt her by forcing the abortion issue? If so, then it may explain why he's seemingly changed his tune about wanting to tell family together etc- he may have calmed down a bit and had a chance to think more rationally about what this means for him and your sister, and possibly is starting to realise that there's an innocent little baby that will need him when it's born.

Of course she was incredibly stupid to do what she did but I'm afraid I'll be behind Zachary holding the spare pitchfork. What kind of arsehole drags a woman to an abortion clinic at 23 fucking weeks and tries to bully her into getting rid of the baby she desperately wants?

Awful situation! I'd just keep an eye on things for now to see if he seems to have settled down to the idea. Maybe use the meeting with him (where he's going to tell you) as a chance to talk to him about his feelings. You can ask him "innocent" questions ("how do you feel about this who have teenage children, is this what you want etc"). Continue to support your sister, be there through the pregnancy and also tell her not to be a victim, so if her husband is a shit she should leave for the sake of the child. Get her some councelling through the hospital she'll be booked into for the birth, maybe her husband will consider going to a few couples sessions too.

What a monster, he makes me want to puke. Why the hell didn't he get a vasectomy if he felt this strongly.

Your poor sister - just do whatever she wants, I think she needs some love :(

I'm stunned at the basic lack of trust some of you must have in your relationships. Have a vasectomy if you don't want children? Subtext; because otherwise some woman will lie to you and pretend to be on the pill? Should men really think this way of us? If dh put a hole in the condom and I was livid would that be wrong? Should I get done just in case?
Talk of pitchforks fgs. Some of you are very strange. Plus, if she has lied about being on the pill, maybe she is also capable of over exaggerating his reaction.

The man is a cock. A big fat cock

She has to put herself and her baby first....and that means leaving this evil waste of space. Although she won't as she's vulnerable and being controlled by an abusive man.

Like everyone else has said, all you can do is be there.

Not a basic lack of trust grumpypants, this goes beyond that. If someone is so adamant that they do not want children that they would drag their wife to an abortion clinic at 23 weeks, then really he needs to put his money where his cock is. Because as has already been pointed out, all contraception carries a failure rate and presumably it made no difference to him whether she tricked him or it was a genuine mistake, he still would have reacted in the same way.

If he didn't want her to get pregnant he should have taken contraceptive measures too, it's not just down to his wife, he shouldn't have told her he might change his mind after they were married either. He should have told her straight, he never wants children not ever, he's done now!

I think he wants to be there during the pregnancy anouncement in order to take control of the situtation and ensure your sister doesn't breakdown and tell your parents how he has behaved, he wants to be there so he can retain his halo in front of your parents, so the world doesn't realise what a nasty abusive little bully he is.

If he doesn't want any more children ever he shouldnt be with a woman who clearly depserately does. He shouldn't have told her he might want to after marriage.

Yes you're sister shouldn't have 'fogotten' the pill, but he trapped her into marriage by pretending he might change his mind about having children after marriage. When he clearly knew she desperately wants her own children. Because if he had said to her I never want to have anymore children again ever, she would have been likely to cut her losses....

what a horrible situation for everyone.

if this was me (i have two sisters), i would be so torn. i'm very close to both my parents and my sisters and would find it so hard to stay quiet (but then i know my mum would be able to act as though she didn't know anything, but would just ask a few randomly placed questions about how he feels, to encourage your sister to open up of her own accord. if she didn't open up, my mum wouldn't push it).

but without knowing your family dynamics, the 'head' part of me is thinking it would be best to stay quiet, but keep a very very careful eye on things and maintain closeness and trust with my sister.

horrible horrible horrible. i really don't know what i would do. i think i would talk to my mum, but i would advise to keep quiet.

NoWayNoHow - thanks for trying to get back to the point about what I should do and whether me getting more involved would help her or just be meddling.

Its a pretty emotive subject so I'm not surprised lots of people have strong opinions about it. Most people on here seem to think I shouldn't get involved any further then, just step back and be there for her if she needs me. I guess I'm finding it difficult to get clear in my mind whether he's actually being abusive. If he was physically abusive I'd have no hesitation in going round and trying to pursuade her to leave. But I feel he's being emotionally abusive.

I know she's lied about being on the pill and I think everyone agrees that tricking him into getting pregnant is very wrong, but I don't think she would exaggerate to me about his behaviour since then. If anything she is completely blaming herself. If I say anything bad about him she gets upset. All she wants is for him to be nice to her and to want the baby (but obviously you can't make someone want a baby, especially if they were clear about not wanting children in the first place).

Should the secrecy be a worry? He said if they did terminate the pregnancy she must never tell anyone about it because people would judge him/them. And he's told her not to tell anyone about the pregnancy so far - he doesn't know that I know and she's asked me not to text her about it because he reads her text messages.

If I was convinced that he really is a decent bloke who is just struggling to come to terms with her lying to him about the pill and the huge upheaval of a new baby which he didn't want, and he is trying to work through it with her and will eventually be fine I'd definitely leave them to it. But something just doesn't seem right.

motorway, you clearly know both of them better than any of us, so if your gut tells you that something weird is up, you're probably right.

I would still stick with the same advice, though - see how he is when he tells you about the pregnancy, observe their relationship and only step in if you feel that lines are being crossed.

Also do everything you can to keep up an open, honest dialogue with your sister. SHe needs to know that she can talk to you without you trying to coerce her into anything she's not ready for/prepared to do.

If she's anything like my sister, if you push your agenda she will do the total opposite!!

I don't understand why he wanted her to have an abortion at 23 weeks. When did she tell him she was pregnant?

I think a man who feels as strongly as he does should have sat her down and told her that he never wanted children with her. She would have then have been able to make a fair decision as to whether she wanted to marry him or not.

I have to say I think tricking someone into having a child (which I firmly believe she's done twice) is absolutely dreadful.

She told him as soon as she found out - he spent until 23 weeks trying to pursuade her to have a termination.

I'm wondering whether the late termination is affecting my view. I am pro-choice, but I'm not sure about having one that late into the pregnancy - the baby is kicking and they know its sex. The fact that he could live with that is possibly clouding my judgement of him.