HUSBAND LEFT AFTER AN AFFAIR III - AM MOVING ON WITHOUT HIM

[solost]

My husband left me in mid-August when I found out he was having an affair. My original thread (husband had an affair and I want him back) detailed the fact that I felt he had made a mistake and asked for advice on how to get him to see sense and come back to me and our 3 DCs. Four months on, he still hasn't returned and I am re-buildling my life without him. That thread is now full. This is the continuation. Thanks to all of you for your support.

Solost - AGAIN - remember that you only have his word for that! please try to remember that this man LIES, and does so convincingly. You really have no idea how their relationship is - but try this on for size - when he was telling you all the bad things about BB, and you confronted him about it, he said something along the lines of "I didn't want to upset you by telling you how fantastic she was". Bear that in mind! He's just playing the same game now.

I'm reposting this next bit from Suff's thread just in case you missed it there - you said you didn't know what to do with regards to the amount of time your H sees your DC, because they appear to be getting more upset the more they see him, so this is my take:

Solost - you have to, as far as you are able, put a schedule in place for your Hs to see your DC. The sooner you do that, and the better you can stick to it, the more chances your DC have the come to terms with the new arrangements. Solost, I know we've said this before and I do understand that it's easier to get your H in for child care cover - but it's not good for your DC to randomly see him at other times.

As I said to you before - if they think there are possibilities of him turning up whenever, it will affect their choices of things that they do, because they won't want to accidentally miss him coming around while they are out at a friend's, or doing something.

So make a schedule - and as far as possible, stick to it. And while your DC are still in transition with the whole business, get a babysitter in, or ask the DGP - anyone rather than your H.

Then if they know that Saturday is Dad Day, it frees them up the rest of the week to get on with their lives as well.

How often does he phone them? Every day? once in a while? when he remembers?

Ooops! - sorry, just realised that the strained relationship is between your H and his parents, not BB.

OK, ignore that part - well actually, no - Keep it in mind but not in this particular instance!

Suff,

I think about it all the time to be honest. I am kind of building a contingency fund whilst he is supporting us. He always insists by the way, when I bring this up, that he will always support us financially, he will always pay the mortgage/bills and that BB is fully aware of this and will support him forever??

Obviously I am waaaaay ahead of him and know of course that this will not continue indefinately, though to be fair, no sign of any changes yet! I consulted a solicitor who said he was paying over and above what he would be legally required to, but I am preparing to get him to sign a 'deed of separation' (i think it is called) to get this in writing.

I am quite interested to see how this pans out to be honest, I am not scared, I know we will survive wherever we end up! DS once asked me if we were going to 'live in poverty' now that H had left, I told him that even if H had not left there was no guarantee that we wouldnt end up like that, lots of people do, but that having money isnt everything and that having people you love/who love you around you and you health are much more important than having loads of money. I think he understood - just didn't want the repo man to take his XBox I think!

THUMB: Wondered what you were on about!!

I did have a kind of schedule in place whilst H was on 'gardening leave'. Tuesdays and Thursdays after school - to take DC's to various after school stuff, and Saturdays, Dad Day - I like that!!

However, now he has started his new job, its back to working away so depending on when he's available really. I do try though, to pin him down on Saturday as to which days he will be seeing them, so as to give them maximum notice (I was thinking of writing the dates down on a calendar for them?).

He rings them, every morning before school, every afternoon after school and at 8.30pm before bed. To his credit - he never misses and is never late. On Sundays he rings about 9.00am and then at 8.30pm as we are out and about most of the day visting GP's. Do you think thats too much? the DC's don't seem to mind and littlest DD particularly enjoys chatting to him on the phone. I don't speak to him on the phone btw. as I know the times he rings I deliberatly don't answer (unless I need to speak to him about some DC issue).

Does he see them every Saturday? that needs to stay in place as far as possible - maybe cut down to one evening in the week, because if he finds it hard to make it over, the DC are just going to experience more let-downs. So better to reduce it to what he can actually manage and make sure that he DOES manage it, rather than "hoping" to come over more often and not making it.

Re. the phonecalls - the DC will reach a point where they CBA to answer the phone if they think it's too much - while they are happy with that level, so long as they don't put the phone down and look really sad and woebegone every time, then it's probably ok. But if it starts to affect them negatively, then it will need to be reduced.

THUMB: He sees them EVERY Saturday without fail.

When he first left, he tried to wriggle out of it, needed to leave early/arrive late for a variety of reasons - pissed me right off, told me he and BB would like some weekends away together etc. In the end I told him - either see them ALL day Saturday or not at all, they are not accessories that could be picked up and put down when it suited them - that seemed to do the trick!

Recently when I suggested that WE might go away for a weekend, he got all huffy and said that Saturday was HIS day with them, am glad that message has apparently got through!

Thanks for the advice about the phone calls, I will be monitoring the situation.

I haven't posted for a while and caught up with where you are now. The advice from everyone is spot on. I think you sound so much more in control of your own feelings and are easily a step ahead of him.

It looks as though his new relationship will be moving into another phase. He has a new job and will be away... he will have the stresses and strains of being a newbie... and all of this will test their relationship. Its much easier to play around when you are on top of your work situation.

So he now has the committments to his actual family, the stress of being an adulterer, a new job plus keeping some romance in the air with his soulmate. I can't help but think she is going to slip down his list of priorities. Should be interesting!

I am sure that she is discovering that the reralities of life with a married man are slightly different from the glossy version she started with.

realities

I think you were right the first time about what your H thinks of feminists, but I also get the impression that you were on the same page for a long time....I hope you're not now.

And just because the OW is an assertive (as opposed to bolshy) career woman, it certainly doesn't make her a femininist. I am sceptical incidentally, that this "bolshy" comment of his, would have been made about a male marketing executive.

So what you're saying is that part of your rationale for him coming to the house is to see him yourself and to irritate the OW? That's honest and especially the latter reason, understandable but Solost your goals in this situation right now should be to put the DCs' welfare first and to irritate him. The OW is not your enemy - he is.

Separating couples often agree on weekend parenting for the non-resident parent and it's often a grave mistake. It means that you get to see the children when they are tired and when life has to run by the clock at all times, and your H gets them when they are relaxed and fun/late nights beckon. I also think you might be falling into the trap of thinking that just because one of your DCs says she doesn't want to see where Dad lives, they all feel like that. She might also be sparing your feelings, bless her.

Additionally, I don't think you are projecting far enough ahead and seeing the opportunities of a shared parenting arrangement. Shared parenting means that in the time spent with Dad in this case, he is responsible for everything. At the moment, your H rolls up to a clean house and everything is washed, ironed and ready for the DCs' activities. He doesn't get the shit stuff that gets worse as children get older. The refusals to get out of bed in the morning, the PMT in teenage girls, the gruntiness that is a teenage boy.

Soon, your lad will want to do his own thing with his mates on a Saturday and that's normal and healthy. Being forced to spend a day with his sisters and his Dad, is going to intrude on his normal development.

This current arrangement of whole Saturdays and ad-hoc nights in the week with your home as permanent base is not good for them, or you. The only person it's good for is your H.

If your H lived nearer, he could enter into a proper shared parenting arrangment, having them for part of the school week and you could alternate weekends. This would free you up to realise some of your own ambitions in life.

Now, that might seem a step too far for you at the moment (although lots of families practise this arrangement, including some friends of mine) but perhaps it's something you can work towards?

I think it starts with you using this catalyst of the new job, to agree a new schedule. Explain that Saturdays no longer work for you and won't for much longer, as far as the DCs are concerned (especially DS). That seeing the DCs in the family home is actually upsetting them, one in particular. It's now time to formalise everything; the finances and the time spent with the children.

Ask him to suggest a regular weekday night or nights or a rota of alternate weekends. The first obstacle to this is him living so far away, so it will be his choice if he can't do that and move nearer. But if you take away your house as the base camp, this will press the point home. He will just have to find a way of seeing the DCs and it will be his problem.

However, it does mean you'll have to remove obstacles in the way, such as agreeing to him having the DCs at his home (and by default seeing the OW) but I really think this is going to be something you'll have to swallow if you're putting the DCs' interests first. If they don't want to see her, they can tell him that and then it will be his problem to tell her to make herself scarce for the day, won't it?

In answer to your question about male/female roles incidentally, I think it's often the case that women fall into the arrangements that their own parents had and it works as long as one of the partnership doesn't abuse their greater economic power and the societal expectation that men can up and leave when they want, leaving women with the DCs and no earning power of her own. It also works if the one at home continues to have no other ambitions outside of the family.

Unfortunately, this arrangement has worked against you because your H leaving has left you vulnerable and without many options. Meanwhile he has been allowed to live independently elsewhere, suffer nothing like the approbation a woman would get if she left her DCs for an OM, continue his career, retain a financial interest in an accruing asset (your house), have none of the hard graft involved with raising children, see his DCs in nice surroundings without ever having to take time off from work (except for nice things like concerts).

Nice work if you can get it, eh?

bloody spot on, wwifn

solost...things are far, far too easy for him

but so, so difficult for you and the kids

can you see that ?

if DH and I ever split, it will be shared parenting all the way

he gets the shit times as well as the good times

the laundry, the tantrums, the homework sessions, the packed lunches, the complaints about what time to come in, the arguments and fighing between siblings (this all gets harder work as they grow older, no easier)...in other words the shitwork gets shared

he isn't allowed to cherrpy pick the nice bits

it isn't fair

one day you will meet a nice bloke...it won't be on your horizon yet, but you will

do you think any nice man would be interested in coming anywhere near a set up like your current one?

he is effectively still your husband...except he goes and shags someone else at night

WWIFN has articulated wonderfully what lots of us without the language skills have been thinking.

It really may be time for you to think about access involving the BB? I know it's more than difficult for you to think about and no-one underestimate how stressful you will find the idea. However all separated parents have to come to decisions about this at some time.

We've said all along that it is unfair on your children and confusing for them. You have now maybe seen a bit more clearly where we're coming from. Remember your children are considering your feelings as well a the H's and really it's too much for them isn't it? They should be concentrating on how they are feeling and feeling confident that it would be ok to be happy with their D in his home and to possibly even like the BB. Really I think if you were looking at it dispassionately you would agree too.

You need to make decisions now for what's best for them as they aren't able to. By that I mean what's best for them in the long run - not what they think they might want today. It is surprising how much responsibility for their parent's feelings that children can take on in these situations. We can all see clearly what an excellent, stable and caring parent you are.

I think if you get a bit more clarity with regard to your H and see the BB for the bit part player she really is you would see that what we've said is the best solution for your children.

I do absolutely think your H should move nearer and the lack of your family home for his royal presence will highlight this to him.

I really think the current situation has carried on too long now. I know you have circumstances which make it a difficult situation to navigate. However think about it another way. Supposing you had reacted how lots of women do and couldn't bear the sight of him? You would find a way round the situation. I think you need to challenge yourself as to why you think you can't solve the current situation.

Re. money it needs thinking about for reasons other than the obvious.

I know someone who went through extremely similar to you and guess what? He was paying for everything back at the family home/the other woman paying for everything. However he was still running up loads of money on credit cards etc. and it got messy two years down the line. These men spinning their plates can come crashing down and you need to have glued your plate on to the stick!

I'm sure you'll say that H has tidied up at your house or put on some laundry or done washing up or whatever while he has the kids... but that's not the point.

Everyone is just trying to get you to see that H is to blame. HIM. And he alone should suffer consequences for it. Not you and DC. And OW's feelings are irrelevant.

I can completely see how the mere thought of the dc going to H's new place and spending the day with him and BB would make you sick. Or the idea of having them away for a weekend or a day without you knowing where they are or without having them very nearby is painful.

I can see why you want him to come to yours - so she can see that it's not going to happen, you won't let it happen and that she is not top priority for him. (haha BB! You're not so great after all, are you? Look where he spends his saturdays!)

Listen to these wise women.

Yes and it's about him reaping what he's sown, not the OW. If you follow this plan Solost then life will, by default become very difficult and irritating for the OW, especially if she is as described by your H (sceptical though I am that she is like that).

You know, if you get involved with a parent, then you have to accept that the children come first. You have to accept that your home is their home, for the time they spend with their parent and/or you.

He will learn a lot about what she is really like when he sees her with his children, beyond the honeymoon phase of trying to be their best friend...
You will learn a lot about her too, through your children's reactions and observations. You'll learn loads more about your H when you see the result of him being the primary carer for sustained regular periods, for the first time in his life.

And just maybe, you'll learn so much about yourself and realising your potential as a human being, outside of the very traditional role you carved out for yourself in life - and which seems to have clipped your wings.

Exactly true what WWIFN has said - by moving the situation on as suggested above you will irritate the BB by default big time! It just won't be the primary aim and a by product. Win, win and win again. You may irritate the BB currently but at the cost of emotional paralysis for your family.

Also I hate really to say it as I don't think he's someone I would suggest you got back with but I suspect you are unable to sever the final ties from him. However if your ultimate aim was to get him back then the current situation is really not painting you in an attractive light. He sees you as an abandoned responsibility and emotionally unable to untie yourself from him and possibly someone that will be on the back burner for as long as he cares to play with your mind.

Think about it: although this man says he chose BB because she "needed him". In fact he chose a career woman, with her own home and enough money to support them both! Oh yeah it looks a bit like the old cliche of seeing you as another domestic appliance.

You get back out in that world and find things that really inspire you again (the you that you have kept under wraps whilst being all things to all people) and you will look much more attractive to H.

Again this is a default and most definitely not the primary aim. The primary aim is to realise your own potential and maybe discover along the way that you gave up a lot of yourself to be with this man. I know you don't see this yet but you will.

He didn't overnight become an arch manipulator of your emotions. It's all about him (that is, for him I mean). He may get nasty when he sees you becoming your true potential he may get tetchy under the new pressure of being expected to face his responsibilities and not just do the "nice" bits of parenting. As WWIFN you will learn a lot about him. Getting back with him may be the last thing in your mind when you see things clearer.

Utterly agree with the last few posts. At some point in the future, the children really will have to go to the house he shares with BB, and they will have to meet her. He could potentially be with her for the next 30 years, so really it's unavoidable. It doesn't mean they have to like her, or her like them. She will have a rude awakening to the reality of children, I'm sure. But their Dad needs to be more of a parent, less of a babysitter. And Solo, you deserve some time off too, to be independent, to get out and persue your own interests, to maybe not have to get back in the evening at a certain time. The older your children get, the more you are going to need that time out, to refresh yourself from time to time.

I also agree with WWIFN when she says that your children are not going to want to give up every Saturday to be with their Dad in the long term, once they hit teen years in particular. So the weekends they are at home with Mum, when they can come and go as they please, have their mates round etc, will contrast with the ones spent at Dads where their social life has to stop for that weekend, but they will cope with both if they have freedom some of the time.

Oh God, thanks for posting all of you (I think) it has made for really hard reading though.

I find the idea of BB having my DC's at the weekend abhorent, I think that one of the reasons she is with H is because she likes the idea of a 'part time family' rather than having her own DC's on a full time basis. But I do see everyones point.

I spoke to DS earlier, we went for a trip to the barbers! - just me and him and I asked him whether he would like to see Dad's new place and meet his girlfriend on a Saturday rather than Dad coming to us. He said no, he didn't want to see his new place or meet his girlfriend, he asked if I or Dad would make him go? - he also pointed out that he has football practice on Saturdays and would rather do that than go to his Dad's.

So what do I do? Do I make them go there, to somewhere they don't want to be? I know for a fact that DD2 will refuse point blank as she has dancing for 2 hours on a Saturday pm and even if she misses every other then she will be out of the 'team' (as this is the team practice).

There is also the fact it is a one bedroom flat, no toys, computer games etc. I know its not my business but what the hell are they going to do there all day, unless they get taken on outings every time and then H and BB become the 'fun parents' doing all the fun stuff and I'm the drudge because I can't afford to do the days out, I do the homework, make them tidy up etc.

Is it really fair that they have to be with someone they maybe don't like, someplace they have no friends etc. every other weekend, just bacause their Dad did a runner?

Sorry, I am rambling, I would be interested to know how anyone in the same situation copes with this aspect. I only heard of one similar story, it came from H incidently, a friend of his from work, left his wife for his OW, his wife agreed to 'shared parenting' straight away and their DC's stayed with him and his girlfriend within a fortnight of him leaving. Unfortunatly, his daughter who was diabetic, had an hypo (I think thats the correct term) whilst her Dad was out, and the girlfriend refused/was unable to administer her injection and the poor kid ended up being hospitalised. Extreme, I know, but the thought of my DC's being left with BB who knows nothing about kids, in a fourth floor flat - really doesnt bare thinking about.

Sorry, I know I sound like a drama queen, but I hardly trust anyone with my DC's, their GPs and a few close friends thats it really, even H sometimes struggles with them (they can be quite boisterous!) - my fault I suppose, but I see their care as my job, my role in life, and to relinquish this to a person who never gave their feelings a thought as she (and H, I know!) smashed their perfect family apart - I can hardly bear to think about it. Sorry.

Sorry, forgot to ask, what it the conventional arrangement for this by the way - if there is one? Is it every weekend, every other weekend and a night during the week? Would be interested to know how others split their time.

Hey Solost

Perfectly understand your hesitation, btw - I fall into the middle ground here, I suppose. I do think that your DC's need to start spending time with your H outside of their own home (so as not to confuse and upset them), but equally I don't think a 1 bedroom flat 100miles away is an appropriate place for 3 kids to stay overnight.

From the few people I know in this sitatuatoin, it does tend to be alternate weekends for each parent, along with at least one night at the co-parent (but, more often I'd say it's 2 or 3 nights). As the wise ladies on here have pointed out, and as you yourself have brought up, your H needs to be responsible for the DC's through the good and the back times.

Obviously having them during the week will involve him moving closer to the school, though, so I think this is the perfect time to bring all this up with him.

If you tell him that's it's no longer acceptable for him to spend time with the DC's at YOUR house due to the upset it's causing them/memories it's stirring, then he needs to ensure that he can provide and adequate second home for them which can accommodate them comfortably both on weekends and during the week.

At least then the ball is in his court, and he will have to (a) make the effort to change his life to facilitate his new role, or (b) see the DC's a lot less than he's used to.

I would like to think he would choose option (a) as by your accounts, he is committed to seeing his kids, but if he chooses option (b) well, then I think you know what that unfortunately means...

Hope you're okay and not too put off by the difficult reading!

solost, I hink we are trying to help you see how the future should be

if, practically, because of housing issues, it will not work right now, then of course you cannot "force" it

by effecively letting H babysit his children in the family home though, what impetus is there for those two to take on any of the actual child care responsibility ?

it still all falls to you

I wouldn't "make" your kids do anything they don't want to do, that goes without saying

but be very very attuned to what they are saying, and why

they will have picked up your reluctance to let them out of your sight

sorry love, that isn't healthy

for them, nor for you

it will obviously have to be a staged process of letting go, when H lives somewhere more appropriate

it is up to you how hard/quickly you push that...certainly, you have given H very strong signalstthat he status quo can continue for as long as it suits him

I think, before too long, it is not going to suit you (I know you can't see it yet) but habits will be very ingrained and you will continue to be everyone else's domestic workhorse (I know you don't think of parenting that way, but it is true)

don't subsume yourself..if H was still living at home, you would get lots of time out, wouldn't you ?

you certainly need it now more than ever

find a new life for yourself ...this is your chance

have a think about why you are currently the one doing all the worrying and appeasing about where H sees his own children

he left them... his responsibility...let him put his thinking cap on

can you see why we all warned you about making it too easy for him in the beginning ?

btw, from what I understand, shared parenting is very variable depending on what works for individual circumstances, but what you said seems quite common

NOWAYNOHOW: Hesitation? thats putting it mildly

I see where you are coming from, and will consider putting this to H.

PETE: Sorry, I may have given the wrong impression, I do let them out of my sight, just that they are always in the sight of someone I trust, not my H and someone I have never met over 100 miles away from home, in a 4th floor flat I have never set foot inside! (Incidently, I would trust H completely with them, but how do I know how he will be when he is with them/BB - a control issue, I know!)

I see why you all warned me about making it too easy for him, and also see how that suited me as well. I also see that I have to have a life, although I don't feel quite ready to embrace it yet - I am making tentative steps, the occasional night out etc. and the DC's do have sleepovers at their GP's/friends.

Sorry my previous post made me look like a derranged control freak! - I'm not really

So what does Saturday look like? He brings DS to football. Do dds tag along? Does he bring dd to dance? What else? I'm nosey

It's ok solost. I'm a deranged control freak to just one DS . he's only 2 but I wouldn't be happy in your situation to let him go, either. Bad advice, I know. Sorry

you cannot control it, that is the point

so if you restrict access with H to only places that you personally know, that isn't healthy (IMO)

btw, I am not trying to say it is easy

you can also tell me to STFU, because I haven't personally experienced this

I suspect I am a less selfless person than you too, in that I would be taking the opportunity to shag other men make a new life for myself, and that would include large swathes of child-free time while they were with their own father who has equal parental responsibility

I will shut up now, and let the less selfish posters get a word in edgeways

The first step to all of this is the H getting somewhere suitable that he can take his children.

Hands up that I'm as guilty as the next for the worrying parent lark that you highlight above. But you need to take the current situation in hand and quite rightly it's pointed out your H should be doing his share of the worrying over the appropriate living arrangements etc.

The BB doesn't needs to be there initially. The kids are naturally scared of any change and asking them if they want to go there is going to get the answer you want really.

If you put it in a different light ie Dad said he'd really like you to see his new place and he's going to chat to you about it etc. I really think they are picking up on signals from you.

Honestly I know how you feel. However letting your children go and have a proper relationship with their dad is ultimately the right thing to do. Abhorrent to you. No one doubts that at all. You need to remember H is responsible for that.

Honestly if you let them have the part time family it won't be what she or him expect and we all know that for sure.