Awful sex mistake - the shame :-(

[h20]

Sorry about this, but I have just had the most bizarre experience and I don't know what to make of it. I drop my sons off at School in the mornings and have noticed one of the dads of a kid in my eldest's class looking at me a lot since last summer. I often see him staring over, and have noticed him watching my arse as I walk away because I can see him reflected in a glass door etc.

He finally came up to speak to me last week and we made awkward small talk. I am thinking he is cute - not my usual type, but cute. He is a coach at a local sports club. I ask someone that knows him at work what he is like and the report back is positive. I am half thinking he might ask me out.

Anyway, this morning I have the day off and as I leave the school grounds he is there. We have a quick chat and I tell him I am off work today and tomorow. He asks me about my husband, I tell him I am divorced. I say why doesn't he bring his son to play one day. He say's 'I don't think my partner would like it much', but maybe have coffee some time? We go our separate ways.

A few minutes later he drives past, and then again and pulls over in front of me. "Want a coffee?" he says. I stupidly invite him to my house which is just round the corner.

Anyway, cut a long story short he says he is mad about my body etc etc and I tell him I'm not interested - he is in a relationship etc. I'm not sure what to do now, feeling awkward - he starts kissing me and touching my bum, and, why why why??? I did't feel able to say no and we have sex in my kitchen. It was crap. I now feel like crap.
He leaves saying see you tomorrow, like he wants to do it again, how about wearing hold-ups etc (YUK). I say I'm busy tomorrow.

How on earth do I make myself feel OK, what a total idiot I am. I am so embarrassed.

"How many of you would invite one of the school dads into your homes whilst you were alone?"

I have. He came and we had coffee, and a natter - and he left.

Not going to really comment on the thread - as I posted about an experience I had many years ago here on MN and was basically told I was asking for it and it was just regrets.

Strangely 13yrs on from the event, and several years later on it doesn't feel like any other "regrets" I have about other sexual encounter

I think I did do it to be polite.

He didn't know I wasn't into it, as he appears to be totally insensitive. That in itself would pretty much consign him to being a crap lover.

I hope that he will not persist, beyond a no thanks from me, but if he does I will ask you guys for advice on how to deal with it.

I've had shit sex before, some a bit meh, some crap, some with other people partners off guard. I had a shit youth, I was terrible. Befreo you flame, I am now rather respectable ahem......

After some of it I felt terrible, afer some really guilty. Would I call it rape, no. Sometimes I have just gone along with it, with no real interest from my part, but it wasn't rape at all. I kissed back, took my clothes off half heartedly.

I do feel sorry for all these men dragged to court because women feel a bit guilty they shagged them in haste, makes it hard for real rape victims to get convivtions and demonises men. Women here are not doing their fellow women any favours at all, especially those who have really been raped, not those who got carried away and now feel ashamed.

I don't think (though not sure) that Dittany care whether the OP acepts she was raped or not (if she was) but rather that society and especially us as women accept that rape is defined by an absence of consent and that this situation could constitute rape.

I was touched in an unwelcome and inappropriate way by a man I had no feelings for, didn't want to touch me and didn't fancy - was that not sexual assault then, because I didn't hold his hand aloft and shout 'whose is this then?' or tell him to take his f*cking hands off me?

It's not about how she responded, it's about what he DID to her, taking into account her response, and he ignored her initial response, and having overridden that she was naturally wary of protesting further because really what would it take to get him to stop?

She had no idea; it was 'safer' almost to consent, passively, though she did NOT consent actively.

Excuse typos on phone without my glasses

"What sort of person wants a woman to accept/feel she was raped when that same woman said she wasn't?"

I agree with Fab.

OP, get checked for STDs, maybe look into some kind of assertiveness training. And stop having sex with other people's partners in the kitchen - they are crap shags. Have sex with someone who wants to make it good for you.

I think this rape/not rape discussion is about semantics to be honest.

The OP said she was scared to say no more because she was worried he would force himself or kick off in some way. So she didn't want to have sex with him. But he wanted to have sex with her, so they did.

I can't for a moment imagine that any man is that dense that he thinks that a woman who isn't resisting is the same as one who is actively participating.

I think we're all agreed that the bloke is a shitty fucker arsehole aren't we? And surely we should be discussing why some women feel that they have to go through with sex when they don't want to. That's the interesting discussion. Not whether or not you call what happened to the OP rape.

Emmy, please stop saying she got carried away - as I said it implies she enjoyed it and she has said several times that she did not.

If you'd asked me after I was raped if I was I would have said no, and for several years afterwards I would have said no. As I got older, more experienced and tougher I realised that yes I had been incredibly stupid and made some very bad choices but that did not give him the right to do what he did. And I actually feel stronger for realising that.

I don't want to get into a specific argument of saying the OP definitely was or wasn't raped but the fact that she kissed him and took her own knickers off does not mean it can't have been rape. Sometimes if you find yourself in a situation that you cannot or don't know how to get out of it is much easier to go along with it and even join in than to try and fight your way out of it. If you comply you can leave with a feeling that you somehow had a choice and aren't entirely a victim. To be physically overpowered by someone and find yourself with no choices, no control and just utterly powerless is horrible and quite soul destroying, even if it doesn't then lead on to rape. If those were my only choices I think I'd opt for the former.

I've also been in violent and controlling relationships, this does affect how I react to men. But I do not avoid possibly slightly risky situations because of it, in fact sometimes I even do the opposite. I don't want to be scared to do things (even if I am), I want to face it and have it turn out to be ok, I want to trust people and have them turn out to be trustworthy. I want to find the good in life and not miss it because some fuckwits have made me too scared to enjoy life. So despite my experiences it wouldn't stopped me from inviting a man I didn't know all that well back to my house so I think its also ridiculous to suggest that if the OP has had a bad experience with a man in the past she should have known better than to invite him back.

I think I've rambled a bit so I apologise if my post is a bit unclear. These are not things I often talk about.

No OP, both you and the man are INSENSITIVE

Keep your knickers on.

I agree wholeheartedly ladybiscuit!! The OP needs to feel better about herself and not accept scraps of affection from a complete fuckwit.

You can get carried away and just go along with sex and not especially enjoy it, due to guilt, them being a shit lay etc. It's not rape Ingrid, get over yourself.

'Sometimes if you find yourself in a situation that you cannot or don't know how to get out of it is much easier to go along with it and even join in than to try and fight your way out of it. If you comply you can leave with a feeling that you somehow had a choice and aren't entirely a victim. To be physically overpowered by someone and find yourself with no choices, no control and just utterly powerless is horrible and quite soul destroying, even if it doesn't then lead on to rape. If those were my only choices I think I'd opt for the former.'

EXACTLY, exactly, exactly.

These are among the unregistered thoughts that pass through all our minds in these sorts of situations, 'what will be the likely outcome' - and you know when you're where the OP was at 9am that it will either end in consensual though unwelcome sex or it will end in gross rape or it will end in deeply uncomfortable relations.

the risk of violence or gross rape is enhanced if you resist, purely because the man is charged up and if you have allowed him to discharge his sexual readiness in a submissive fashion, he will almost certainly be unable or not wish to penetrate you again, certainly not for a good few minutes, and this is a survival factor. You can escape with minimal damage.

The OP chose the safest option in the circumstances.

'get over yourself'? What does that mean?

I didn't say she was raped! I DIDN'T SAY she was raped.

Broken record springs to my mind.

To elaborate, had she NOT consented, there would have been the risk that he would have overcome her physically and raped her in a very obvious, undeniable way.

This would have been a really bad outcome.

So to let him do it in a calm and 'normal' way was the safest option, if we are talking about risks and so on.

If kissing a man and taking your underwear off in order to facilitate sex does not mean it can't have been rape. quite frankly I am amazed that anyone ever has sex, the signals seem to be so mixed.

Those who seem determined to see rape in every sexual encounter that does not include written consent are out in their usual, slightly hysterical, force.

I wonder what happened to common sense and the ability to take responsibility for one's own actions. Yes, the man sounds like a sleazy opportunist but why do some posters persist in reducing the OP to the status of a victim with no voice of her own? She has been perfectly honest about how she feels about the experience in more than one post but no - those who know better insist that it must be rape. God forbid the OP should actually be allowed to claim that she might know best what happened to her own body

and by 'do it' I mean have sex with her - not rape her. I don't know if he raped her and have never said so, broken record-like or not.

WTF?

Ladies PLEASE!!!!!!

From what i have read, the OPs history may or may not have lead her to consent to sex when she didn't really want it. She may have found herself in a situtaion where things had gone too far and she didn't know how to get out of it, so rather than create conflict she consented for it to go ahead. Is that what you are saying Ingrid. If so, i think that is a valid argument.

What we will never know is if she had actually said a firm no and made it clear she wasn't interested. Not just a No, we shouldn't, you have a partner bla bla - if this man would have stopped. Yes, the man shouldn't have even been there, he has a partner, he has children, and he shouldn't have persisted, but he did and the OP subsequently consented, for whatever reason.

This happens in marriage all the time - "no honey i dont want to" "oh go on, kiss kiss, i feel so sexy" "no" more kissy kissy, stroke stroke "go on babe" "oh, alright then" not really that different?? notice the question mark? Happened in my house loads, often i can't be arsed in the mornings, our libidos are out of synch - but my DP can be very persuasive, does that make him a rapist? dont bother to answer this dittany

Yes that is basically what I meant, Soft. just yor first paragraph - I haven't had a chance to think about the rest yet

Leaves ingrid to elaborate for a few more hundred posts

WTF indeed

I havent read all threads but am shocked, we have gone from, OP saying she had sex with someone she didnt want to and is now regretting it, to rape?? seriously!

I think the very saddest thing about this thread is that some women have so little self esteem or have been so badly treated in relationships that they will submit to sex that they don't want, so as not to be seen as being impolite or unfriendly - it's genuinely mystifying.

This man is probably a serial shagger who uses this tactic regularly and because the women he takes advantage of don't call him on his behaviour and throw him out of their houses, he thinks it's a perfectly acceptable strategy - he's ultimately responsible for his horrible behaviour but the women he targets have to take part of the responsibility too, they could and should tell him to fuck off when he starts his "seduction" , he's obviously upfront about the fact that he has a partner, why would any woman carry on after he tells them that little gem?

What's your problem Thingumy? I've obviously pissed you off unintentionally.

Can you explain what it is I've done and perhaps I can sort it out for you.

This isn't the same situation at all but I was once followed part of the way home by a man who sidled up very close to me at some traffic lights, brushing against me and then proceeded to walk beside me at an uncomfortable proximity, saying sexual things to me, talking about my chest, asking if he could see my underwear and trying to take photos of me on his phone.

My response completely shocked me as I too always assumed that I would be able to assert myself in a situation like that. I answered him a couple of times, then ignored him and began to walk faster; he continued to follow me until I eventually asked him (very politely) not to talk to me like that.

I can only assume that because this was in the middle of the day and I was pushing my son in his pram, that I was entirely shocked into inaction. As soon as I got away from him, I was filled with rage at him and myself for allowing it to happen and eventually reported it to the police, who couldn't have been less helpful, to be honest. Until you are in that kind of situation yourself, you have no idea how you will react.