Awful sex mistake - the shame :-(

[h20]

Sorry about this, but I have just had the most bizarre experience and I don't know what to make of it. I drop my sons off at School in the mornings and have noticed one of the dads of a kid in my eldest's class looking at me a lot since last summer. I often see him staring over, and have noticed him watching my arse as I walk away because I can see him reflected in a glass door etc.

He finally came up to speak to me last week and we made awkward small talk. I am thinking he is cute - not my usual type, but cute. He is a coach at a local sports club. I ask someone that knows him at work what he is like and the report back is positive. I am half thinking he might ask me out.

Anyway, this morning I have the day off and as I leave the school grounds he is there. We have a quick chat and I tell him I am off work today and tomorow. He asks me about my husband, I tell him I am divorced. I say why doesn't he bring his son to play one day. He say's 'I don't think my partner would like it much', but maybe have coffee some time? We go our separate ways.

A few minutes later he drives past, and then again and pulls over in front of me. "Want a coffee?" he says. I stupidly invite him to my house which is just round the corner.

Anyway, cut a long story short he says he is mad about my body etc etc and I tell him I'm not interested - he is in a relationship etc. I'm not sure what to do now, feeling awkward - he starts kissing me and touching my bum, and, why why why??? I did't feel able to say no and we have sex in my kitchen. It was crap. I now feel like crap.
He leaves saying see you tomorrow, like he wants to do it again, how about wearing hold-ups etc (YUK). I say I'm busy tomorrow.

How on earth do I make myself feel OK, what a total idiot I am. I am so embarrassed.

dittany, the poor woman has said at least 5 times now that she was not raped, whilst you are trying to pressure her into saying she was.

Not very feminist of you.

I'm surprised that this isn't being looked at a bit more cynically tbh. 'Coffee' after the school run doesn't equal sex.
If a man made a presumption about me like that I'd be mad - and I've had sex with dozens of men so am not at all backwards about coming forwards.

I'm not for one minute thinking OP should take this further in terms of arrest etc - but he was in the wrong by treating her like a common hussy. It's a case of living and learning. Personally I wouldn't want to be alone or anywhere near a man who looked at my arse and made suggestive comments when TAKING THE KIDS TO SCHOOL!!!

Why don't you LISTEN to H20 and her own take on this morning.

There was NO rape.

Some posters like the sound of their voice...

Have reported this thread, i think we are on dangerous ground here and in danger of overstepping the mark. Poor OP she just wanted a bit of bloody support not to be made to feel like a fucking victim

softglow why am I not allowed to draw attention to some of the awful posts on this thread to point out that they are wrong?

If people state the view that it's only rape if there is violence, or that if a woman invites a male acquaintance into her house at 9am she is consenting to sex, then I think those views need to be challenged.

there is some serious misunderstandings about rape here and the notion that the only 'real' rape is when someone jumps out from a dark alley and drags the victim off.

The other types which are harder to get a conviction for are the result of the deep seated misogony in this deeply patriarchal society and the grip it has on so many men and women - it's the received wisdom and so ingrained many here hardly question it.

There are many men who rape who don't have to use violence, they are intimidating, calculated, callous and know that their chances of being convicted are virtually zero. They are more sophisticated than the type who jumps out in the street.

Isnt - fight was the wrong word. I should have used the word protest.

I don't believe you have to fight back for it to be rape, but I do believe initially saying 'I'm not interested - you are in a relationship' and then when he tries it on, you

a) do not protest in any way
b) respond physically

does suggest you have changed your mind. It happens.

When I was in a situation where I did not want the person to continue, I made it very fucking clear indeed and certainly did not stop saying no or respond physically.

I can understand that you would go along with it if you felt your were in danger, but nowhere did OP state she felt intimidated.

I agree with you ISNT, but this isnt the place, really

Yes you are putting pressure on her. She has said it wasn't rape - are you saying she's deluded? Or lying? Oh no I forgot, she's confused the poor weak little woman.

FGS dittany she knows what happened, she was there so stop treating her like a kid and start respecting her please.

She kissed and touched him. She was not raped.

If she did report this and her life dissolved in tatters along with his, where would you be then? Harrassing another poor woman to cry rape where there was none? Women like you actually do more harm than good.

I'm really glad (lucky) all my bad sex encounters took place before they invented the internet (old crone emoticon). Touch wood. Don't want to be to tempt fate there.

OP- I hope you are feeling better. It's a mistake. I understand what it is to get caught up in a moment. You're a human being and we all want to feel attractive and desired and spontaneous. Don't be hard on yourself.

Re: the coercion argument. I see both sides but if it was me in this specific instance I would take a pragmatic approach. What benefit would there be in pursuing any action against the man and what psychological benefit would there be?

I think we should be very concerned about living in a culture where there is still an element of submissiveness to men's sexual needs and I admire the poster who is teaching her son to actively ask for consent. But if it was me I would be fighting the battle on other fronts. I have read so many accounts of rape victims who have said that the police procedure was like being raped again.

Hope you feel better.

She said she wasn't interested, I wonder if this happened before the kissing started or during. OP knows how it happened and we don't. It may be that the kissing started and she went along with it to see if it felt nice, when it didn't, she realised she didn't want it and should have said enough! but froze and let him carry on.

I have been in similar situations and when I was younger I wouldn't have had the experience to tell him to stop and let it carry on because it felt the safer option.

Trying to difuse this slightly, I think we should keep rational about it. I think OP let herself be taken advantage of. He's a sleazy, predatory bastard. We must all ensure we communicate a clear yes or no to men to avoid this sort of thing happening.

Then there can be no grey areas.

Being a victim of numerous rape I find I do not find a woman who saying no and was overidden being told it may have been rape insulting. I find people saying unless you give a adequate fight t is not rape insulting ans upsetting.

H20 your reply makes me very concerned I have slept with someones partner once and the feelings you describe were not what I felt after. I hope you speak with someone and get this and your low assertive and low confidance sorted.

She also says she wasn't raped Dittany

she knew he was in a relationship way before he even mentioned coffee, yet she still invited him back and consented to sex

if the sex had been fabulous, fantastic, the best you ever had, would you feel different OP?

genuine question

dittany Do you read what people post?

H2O has said she wasn't raped.

Strangely enough BTino, I do leave my front door open and my car unlocked,

Not sure what a scarlett woman is Slightly, but I did feel a bit bewildered and just went along with it.It all happenned so quickly that it caught me unawares.

But, i'm not so lame as to be flattered by ANY attention, I often get flirted with/flirt/use charm/get charmed and am usually quite capable of saying no. I'm not that needy or insecure, and I'm not interested in just having ANY relationship, hence why I am single.

If it was before then the kissing was consensual. OP doesn't say that she felt she hadn't consented, she didn't tell him to stop.

He acted like a sleeze, it was a scrap shag and OP regrets it.

I would ignore him from now on, if he calls round, tell him you regret it and to leave you alone in future. I really hope that that's the end of it and there are no repercussions and you can put it behind you. Try not to beat yourself up for too long, you are single, he isn't.

Marmynags - yes, probably. What made me feel bad was how it seemed sordid and perfunctory.

Ah, now it becomes clear why rape convictions are so low.

H20 I am so sorry this has happened to you. You are not to blame, this vile man ignored your refusal and coerced you in to accepting unwanted sex.

I have read responses by other people who want you to take responsibility for this because you didn't say no firmly enough. Saying no is one of the most difficult things in the world to do. Saying no hurts feelings so we tend to offer excuses instead - as you did telling this guy that you weren't interested because he was in a relationship. It's ridiculous this POV that unless you say no assertively and strongly then in actual fact you mean yes. Who are you people and which rock have you been living under?

ISNT I've said elsewhere

Whatever you wear, wherever you go, yes means yes and no means NO.

I learnt that while working with some Women's Voice people back in the 70s.

" Inviting a man who clearly fancies you, into your home whilst you are alone is not a good idea, I think we can all agree on that.

What, you disagree with that? I've told my daughter, and for that matter my son always meet in a public place first.

By inviting him round she gave him the message that she was interested.

Read the context, he's said he had a parter, he then asked if she wanted a coffee; she said yes and invited him back to her place - I'm a "nice chap" but I'd have thought that may be a signal.

As women we have to take responsibility for our own actions, it's too easy to blame someone else."

I've seen ragingly drunk women walking in areas I - as a big, strong, ex-rugby, ex-service type - would be nervous of walking in. A couple of times I have given those women lifts home [needless to say, I'm not entirely stupid; only when I had a chaperone, exDW or one of her colleagues]. While it wouldn't have been their fault if they had got mugged/raped, it wouldn't have been such a risk if they weren't drunk and in a rough area.

Again, you talk to your kids and try and make sure they don't abandon their mates - fault isn't an issue, but you do, surely, try and manage risk.

FWIW, I agree the bloke is a sleazebag; I also think h20 has taken the lessons she needs to for herself.

montmarte I'm pleased your chap asked you and you married him

*WhenwillIfeelnormal" you said
In the past, I have been asked variations of "is this okay?" "Are you sure?" etc. on the first occasion I have had penetrative sex with someone and that has always seemed to me the most considerate and appropriate thing for a man to do.

Astonishing. To be honest that sounds like yet more pressure. I've asked if I can kiss a girl and usually you judge from reaction what happens next.

I am quite surprised that other posters have never been asked that question, tbh,

Well, now you know; it's neither normal nor customary for many, both men and women.

or that more posters haven't given any thought to what advice they will give to their sons about the difference between implied and expressly given, consent. After all, the law does make that distinction - and is all the better for it, IMO, despite the disgraceful conviction rate.

is there no end to straw men today? Did you ask anyone what they told their sons; did I miss it?

What did you tell your son? Did you remind him that verbal consent unwitnessed can be withdrawn post-facto?

If you're interested, I told my son:
Don't sleep with women if either your or they are drunk
Never take a girl home, without her mates knowing who you are, and where you live
Make sure they have a really good time first

Did I say "Ask them if they consent to a)kissing; b)petting; c)oral sex; d)coitus. Check for withdrawal of consent at each stage. No.