If he won't talk

[Adriane]

I feel cheeky posting as I'm not a regular, but I've lurked long enough to know the advice will be sound. I'm driving myself loopy trying to deal with this alone.

What do you do if your gut instinct tells you that something is amiss, you ask upfront and your dp carries on as if the words were never spoken?

We've been together for 13 years. Our dc is 8. He's always been my best friend. He does the whole male-thing of bottling his emotions, but normally, if I ask, he tells me what is troubling him and we sort it out.

The last few months have been strained. It seemed to happen overnight. Over a weekend in fact. His job means he works away. On this occasion, someone rang in sick so he had to cover. He was fine when he left and a different person when he came home.

I asked him at the time and he started to blame me for financial decisions we'd made together. How he can no longer afford to change his car once a year or buy designer suits. He hates being poor.

We're not poor by any stretch. We have less disposable income, but we're not poor. I asked him what he wanted to do and he said he was resigned to poverty.

He's been detached since. There's no affection coming from him. I have to ask for any morsel of attention from him. It's breaking my heart. He acts like a friendly stranger.

I ask him and ask him if he's okay, if we're okay and he just ignores it. I wonder sometimes if the words disappear in the air between us. He'll chatter quite pleasantly about the mundane and functional, but nothing more. We're like two people at a bus stop.

This week has been bad. Day after day of silence. In the end I broke and told him I was leaving to think things through. No reply. Then a few hours later, he sent a breezy text about how he was heading home and how cold the weather was.

I don't understand. Is he having some kind of breakdown? Is he hiding something? What do I do?

Thanks mummylouise

I'm in England. I'll find a solicitor tomorrow. I need to get through tonight first.

Adriene I didn't want to read and run...you sound like you're copin extraordinarily well andhe sounds like a cold bastard....AND I bet..would BET money on it that he will have a change of heart and come begging to be taken back...and I BET it happens within a month.

I know you won't want him...I can just see it though.

The reality of him and some whore...no home...no DD and he will start to romantisize about you and try his luck.

I hope you have an ok evening...as much as possible.

I just want to say that if he does come home this evening, play your cards very close to your chest. Keep your mouth shut and ears open. He may try to get YOU to do all the sharing, explaining and talking. You don't need to convince him of anything, to let him know any of your thoughts or plans, or feelings. He shut you out of this for months or years and now you can shut him out of your thoughts. Knowledge is power so don't give anything away.

I hope you are able to keep a calm centre of peace around yourself now that you know you don't want to work it out. Sending cool, detached vibes for you to use .

Blinder, why didn't I read your post before now. I was a snivelling overstating wreck of a thing. He has gone though. He packed a bag and lurched out; I stopped him as he went out the front door and said I'd take DD to his parents on Sunday, if he met me there, we'd talk again.

He'd packed for one night, so had to go back upstairs and add extra underpants to his bag.

So. He's admitted to NOTHING. It seems not all women are as technically competent as me so she asked him to set up the account for her. Doh. She's in her 30s. She works for a web company. How thick does he think I am??

His reaction and behaviour have made me wonder though. It's more fucked up than fucking about. Gut feeling.

I've contacted his parents as I was quite worried about him when he left. He looked broken. His dad has gone to find him. He went for a drink with his dad last week and couldn't find the words.

Don't you worry about HIM! I hope you are feeling okish...it must be terribly, terribly hard. Be nice to yourself as much as is possible..I don't have the practical experience these women on here have but I know that they will help you a lot with the awful things.

I think you did the right thing contacting his Dad...is there anyone who can be with you? though?

I feel fine. Surprisingly fine. I realised while he was here that I don't want to lose our relationship. I do love him. BUT. I won't put up with his shit. If he cares so little, I won't beg. If he lies, I'll call him on it. If he leaves, so be it. I'll be fine. I will most definitely be fine. It's quite a liberating feeling.

I've passed him over to the tender care of his mother. There is absolutely no smugness in the above statement

Good! Good! Again...I just BET he comes back begging...and I won't be surprisedif it's soon. It sounds like you might be relieved though...withut the worry of him!

Yes I suppose he needs to give you some explanation for the coldness etc too.

It sounds like you have really shocked him. I hope he has a massive look at the effect of his behaviour.

You sound great and you are right - whatever happens you will be fine.

"I realised while he was here that I don't want to lose our relationship.... If he leaves, so be it."

I'm a little worried by this tbh. Do you mean that if he decides to stay put, you'll let him?

It's not up to me to tell what to do, but is that really what you want? (Sorry if I've mis-understood).

"Do you mean that if he decides to stay put, you'll let him?"

I don't know. I just want it to be right. There were snatches of last night's conversation where it felt like I was chatting to my DP and not this cold, removed man whose replaced him.

My adrenaline is spent. All my tits-out, chin-up, fuck 'im resolve has gone. I feel physically sick. It's just wave after wave of grief and nausea.

He denied there was anyone else. Fed me stories, dead pan. He didn't seem angry or guilty when talking about that. More broken. Then he started to nit-pick over my bad habits and how these were the reasons he wasn't happy. I don't hang my coat up on the right peg. He can't live like that. I'm not sure who he was trying to convince - me or himself.

He dithered about for a few hours, going over and over the same things. Each time the conversation wound its way around to his leaving, he'd look lost and then he'd start again with the reasons we shouldn't be together. Eventually he put his shoes on. I asked if he was going. He said he was going to the supermarket. He sat, head in hands for bit and then started to pack a bag. He then dithered some more picking up the bag to leave. He said he was going to his parents. I told him that I'd take DD over on Sunday to see both him and them. We could talk some more, after having a little space from each other. He looked a little shellshocked and said he'd only pack for one night. He went back upstairs, packed more things and left. He looked awful when he went.

I contacted his parents and asked them to let me know he was okay. I was pretty worried by this point. He never arrived there. His dad rang him. P said he was driving around aimlessly and agreed to go to his parents for chat. He didn't show. I don't know where he went. I can hazard a guess.

There was a burst pipe in the utility this morning. I emailed his work address to say that I needed to take £x out of the account for repairs. He emailed back almost immediately. Chatty. Reasonable. Normal. I haven't responded.

It's never going to be right, though, Adriane. He's lying to you and blaming everything on you, so he's not going to take any responsibility for his deceit - and if you forgive it this time he will decide that he can do it again whenever the mood takes him, all he has to do is blubber a bit and apolgise and normal domestic service will resume.
If you are prepared to accept that this man is never going to be monogamous (some people find open relationships suit them after all) then fine, but when you have a partner who behaves like this you have only two options - end the relationship or accept repeated breaches of monogamy. There is no magic button to make such a person commit to staying monogamous.
And TBH an open relationship with someone like this is unlikely to work very well, because he has already shown himself to be dishonest and selfish and far more interested in his own needs than in yours.

I should add:

The reasons he gave for his behaviour were that he got used to living alone (he worked away for the first 4-5 years after DD was born) and struggled to adapt when he moved back into the family home. This is true. I think we both found it difficult. He thought moving into a larger space would ease matters, but he can't cope with the mess and noise of us. He just wants to be in his own space, doing his own thing.

This was the conversation that went round and round for hours.

He just wants to be in his own space, doing his own thing. Then he doesn't want a partner or a family. But he does want to have an affair with his ex, and quite possibly others as well.

He just isn't cut out for it, Adriane. You will never have the life you want with this man. Set him free.

I kind of get angry at comments like that Grace...how can you...a sranger say that Adriane "will never have the life she wants with this man"

You can't. So it's a bit silly to say it.

Because he just wants to be in his own space, doing his own thing. Adriane wants to be in a family that is a team, with warm and honest communication.

If I'd said "You seem incompatible" would you fin it less offensive?

... I've decided I feel angry about your reply! Nothing Adriane wrote has given me the impression she wants life with a partner who won't communicate, and who has secret affairs. Would that be the life you want?

He seems to be operating amidst a complete tissue of lies.

What annoys me the most on your behalf reading about it is not the probable affair, surprisingly.

What really is making my blood boil is the weasly, cowardly, I-don't-want-to-be-the-bad-guy, stringing you along LYING.

Giving you a list of trivial stuff you 'do wrong' -

Bullshitting about driving around aimlessly and pretending he will go to his parents -

Head in hands grief-stricken routine before leaving, no doubt hoping you will beg him to stay and that you'll do anything not to lose him (ie ignore the ow) -

Sorry, I'm hormonal and this is probably not helping you, but I just fail to understand how seemingly ok people can turn into sewer rats.

Grace....he says that at the moment...to say "never" is silly...nobody can predict ow thigs wil turn out. This has all taken place over one week!

I rather think one can predict in such a case, Wimple, and I read OP's story as having developed over several years. You seem to have changed your tone since yesterday.

Apologies for disputing another respondent to your thread, Adriane! I promise not to do it any more.

at changed my tone?

Won't de-rail your thread Adriane..sorry!

I am mortally offended by the lack of respect being shown to my thread.

TBH, I reckon you both have a fair point.

There's an awful lot of background I'm missing out of my postings, simply because it's personal to P and I don't think I will ever feel comfortable divulging his secrets, even on an anonymous forum. He's DD's father. I might not like him very much at the moment, but I would never hurt him.

It's hard at times to read some of the comments as I know they're formed based on the information I'm giving. I'm having to keep that in mind while I pick things out.

This:

"What annoys me the most on your behalf reading about it is not the probable affair, surprisingly.

What really is making my blood boil is the weasly, cowardly, I-don't-want-to-be-the-bad-guy, stringing you along LYING."

is what is annoying me most too. I'd like to throttle him for this. I just would. Now the anger of finding that email has worn off, I'm right back to doubting my instincts and I can't make decisions like this.

He rang DD earlier this evening. On my mobile rather than the landline, which was odd as he knows I don't like her using mobiles. I didn't hear it ring as it was and simply picked up the voicemail about half an hour later. DD called him back. He asked if I needed to speak to him (no). I later texted him to say if he needed anymore things, he could email me a list and I'd arrange for them to be dropped off. I didn't want him turning up at the house ad hoc for underpants.

We had a relatively calm exchange by text. He is now at his parents. He says he slept in his office last night as he couldn't face them. I don't believe him. He hasn't told them anymore than he needs to stay for a few days. I suggested he might want to mention the OW (I know, I know - I'm rolling my own eyes at myself for that).

He's deleted the account he set up containing her address details. I mentioned that I noticed this (I'd left the window open on my phone to act as a reminder in moments of weakness) and then added pretty much what YTTM wrote above. I said goodnight. He said goodnight.

Now that he's out the house, as long as I don't have any contact and minus the odd wobble, I'm sort of okay with things. I know he's expecting to come back next week, but I don't want him to. I'd prefer he stayed away now, at least until I've recovered from my surgery. I don't think I can make decision while I'm facing all that. It's about 6 weeks away and I'll need at least 3 weeks after that. Is that unreasonable? There isn't the finances to afford to pay for the house and to find P a rental. Can I expect him to stay at his parents for that length of time, while all his wages are spent keeping me and DD in the house?

Absolutely not unreasonable. You must put your health - physical and emotional - first. Experience tells you he's not the best in a crisis, so take protective measures.

Is there a good reason why you don't tell his P&M?

I think it's a very good idea that he stay with his parents until you are past the operation and recovery. That would massively reduce the stress for you and give the dust time to settle. By then you are more likely to know a. What of anything has happened with the ow and b. What you want to do about your relationship.

Giving yourself time to see what happens is a sensible plan.

'What if anything' I meant. (iPhone!)

I'm a little concerned he'll object (he won't want to stay at his parents), but if I tell him what I want while they're there, that might help. I can't have him around me while I'm recovering. I just find contact with him too upsetting and stressful.

I've been thinking through what I want to say to him tomorrow. Are there any issues I should think about with the following -

I need to ask again about OW. His explanation doesn't hold water. If she asked him to set the account up for her, why is it in his name with his contact details? Only the delivery address was hers. Why did he set it up on a Saturday afternoon, when I know he was at home? Surely if their contact is work-based, the conversation would have taking place in works time?

He has to come clean or we're never going to get beyond this point. I have to trust he's being trueful with me as he's expecting me to trust him in other areas. Financially, with DD and so on. I am right here, aren't I? This isn't about him protecting me or her, or his saving face - it's about having complete honesty so things don't turn nasty.

Secondly, I need to ask him to stay away until after my op. For my sanity and for DD. The atmosphere is awful when he's here. DD doesnt need that. She doesn't need her daddy moving in and out. We have to be consistent and now he's gone, he should stay gone.

Thirdly, if he insists there is no OW, I'm going to suggest we go to counselling. He will insist there's no OW. He will refuse counselling. I want to give him the option. The reasons he's giving for leaving the relationship are so trivial (it is complaints about how we hang up our coats and where we leave our shoes), it would be such a waste to throw away our lives on them. He's fixating on the little things that annoy him and not on the positives of what we have.

I don't believe for one moment that frustrations with a discarded pair of pumps are the genuine reasons for this mess. However, such frustrations aren't ordinarily deal-breakers and if he insists on using them while claiming he doesn't know what he wants, (but let's sell up while he decides), then I will call his bluff and suggest counselling.

Does that sound okay? I do think time out, apart, with no decisions being taken, is the best way to go.