If he won't talk

[Adriane]

I feel cheeky posting as I'm not a regular, but I've lurked long enough to know the advice will be sound. I'm driving myself loopy trying to deal with this alone.

What do you do if your gut instinct tells you that something is amiss, you ask upfront and your dp carries on as if the words were never spoken?

We've been together for 13 years. Our dc is 8. He's always been my best friend. He does the whole male-thing of bottling his emotions, but normally, if I ask, he tells me what is troubling him and we sort it out.

The last few months have been strained. It seemed to happen overnight. Over a weekend in fact. His job means he works away. On this occasion, someone rang in sick so he had to cover. He was fine when he left and a different person when he came home.

I asked him at the time and he started to blame me for financial decisions we'd made together. How he can no longer afford to change his car once a year or buy designer suits. He hates being poor.

We're not poor by any stretch. We have less disposable income, but we're not poor. I asked him what he wanted to do and he said he was resigned to poverty.

He's been detached since. There's no affection coming from him. I have to ask for any morsel of attention from him. It's breaking my heart. He acts like a friendly stranger.

I ask him and ask him if he's okay, if we're okay and he just ignores it. I wonder sometimes if the words disappear in the air between us. He'll chatter quite pleasantly about the mundane and functional, but nothing more. We're like two people at a bus stop.

This week has been bad. Day after day of silence. In the end I broke and told him I was leaving to think things through. No reply. Then a few hours later, he sent a breezy text about how he was heading home and how cold the weather was.

I don't understand. Is he having some kind of breakdown? Is he hiding something? What do I do?

Out of curiousity, can the absence of evidence, be evidence in itself?

I've just been through his work bag and found the hotel receipts for the last few weeks. There's nothing for last weekend when he worked away for 3 nights. There's no point challenging him as he'll say Fred or Bob or George pick up the tab for everyone on their company credit card. He wasn't in a hotel, was he? At least, not a work paid one.

My ex was very similar to this for a year leading up to me leaving.

He did all the ignoring, refusing to talk - blanking me while I plead with him to speak.

He distanced himself further physically by sleeping on the sofa.

I believe, even though I never found ACTUAL proof, he had some sort of affair, emotional or otherwise, and I was led to believe everything was my fault, it was all what I didn't do, that was causing the upsets in our marriage.

We are not yet divorced, and I truly empathise with what you are going through.

The best thing I did was copy all the papers, accounts etc, before I left.

He has done his best to 'hide' accounts etc, but I already had the paperwork.

Take care, it really is hard dealing with someone like this.

Remember, talk is cheap, it's actions that count. x

If your instincts and knowledge of how he manages his expenses tell you he wasn't where he says he was - I'd bet my last dollar on your instincts.

Someone who needs three days to consider whether they're willing to commit to their family has already made their decision, I feel.

Of course it's better for you to have your operation and recover, sort your future plans out and generally take care of you & DC. Please do your best to make financial plans AND FINANCIAL PRECAUTIONS in the meantime, and work hard to grieve the marriage you wished for. This forum's fantastic at helping you with the necessary emotional detachment, so keep posting if you feel like a bit of hand-holding!

My penn'orth for now: Try watching him as if he's a character in a TV drama. Not only does it help you protect your feelings, it can prove very illuminating.

I'm so very sorry you're going through this. The most important thing, I hope obviously, is to take good care of yourself now.

Help me. What do I do? He's gone for chat with his dad (or so he says). I've found a new bottle of expensive aftershave in his travel bag. Not his usual brand. It's a small bottle, but circa £50. It wasn't there before last weekend. I'm thinking Christmas present from someone. No wonder the bastard did his washing the evening he got back. I feel sick to my stomach.

He's not picking up his phone. I rang his parents and his sister says they've already left.

Fuck, fuck, fuck. He rang me back just as I posted. I challenged him. He bought it after Christmas. It's on the credit card bill. I remember the shopping trip; I turned down going with him as I can't stand the sales. He bought me shampoo.

I am actually going insane. :(

Oh Adriane, I'm so sorry. Your instincts are screaming at you for a reason. I think you now have to demand some answers but fear you may not get them. Awful though it would be, an OW would at least explain some of the behaviour. I was perversely quite relieved when I found out about XH, it gave me an explanation for some really odd behaviour.

This isn't you. You deserve much much better in a partner than this immature, absent man. As Grace says, take care of you and your dc. DOn't waste any energy worrying about him. Keep talking to us.

Thank you. I'm touched by how kind people have been on here.

I don't know how far I can trust my instincts. My default seems to be suspicion as far as DP is concerned. His affair lasted a month 10 years ago and I still don't fully trust him. He ended our relationship as soon as he realised he was crossing the line with her. Nothing had happened between them, but he lied to me about his reasons for ending it. He tried to avoid hurting me, but with hindsight, if he'd come clean straight away, I would have trusted him to always be upfront.

This is just a mess. I'm really horrible to him at times. It's self-protection. My closest friend, who genuine has my best interests at heart, is forever telling me to cut him some slack. She says I emasculate him. Maybe I do.

Itsgraceagain, you are one of the reasons I love MN!

Only on Mumsnet could someone say in response to "My husband won't talk to me" that he might have been exposed to banned chemicals!

You really, really could be useful in business in a role where you have to consider all the alternative options!

"Would it be very wrong to make sure I'm in a better position to leave before I actually do?"

I don't think that's wrong, no.

Is there is a danger that you will say to yourself "I'll just leave after Christmas / DD's birthday / the summer holidays" and it will stretch out forever?

But you know your own mind and situation. If you can see that it's better to leave in a bit, once you've got things sorted, and you can cope emotionally, then no, it's not wrong, it's prudent IMO.

What kind of recovery time do you expect after your surgery?

I won't delay it longer than I need to. I can't stand this. I'm having nightmares. DD is starting to fret as she senses things she can't understand. However much we're remaining pleasant to each other, we're usually very tactile and any kind of physical contact has stopped between me and DP.

Recovery on the surgery depends on what they find. It could be 2 weeks, it could be 2 months. I'm sorely tempted to rearrange it until after I'm settled elsewhere. It won't make much difference as DP didn't intend to be around during recovery anyway. It clashes with an overseas trip and he had no plans to cancel that. He said his mum would cover for him.

I hate him this morning. Hate. I woke with an overwhelming urge to donkey kick him out of bed. He went to chat through his feelings with his dad last night. His dad is a lovely bloke. Grounded. DP came home after I'd gone to bed, but I woke. He didn't say a word.

I checked his phone while he was in the shower. It's wiped clean and was set to airplane mode. There was a new voicemail, but I couldn't check it. Airplane mode is an easy way to stop midnight texts arriving, isn't it? No pesky little giveaway messages displayed on your front screen.

Sorry for continually rambling. I'm trying to make sense of all the stuff going around my head.

DP (is there another acronym for this - the dearest darling doesn't really apply) left early this morning so I was alone when my parents arrived to do the school run. I burst into tear within 3 seconds of seeing my mum and she ran me into work so we could talk en route.

Mum wasn't surprised. She confessed that she's suspected DP has been having an affair for quite a while and was convinced of the fact after seeing him over Christmas. :( She thinks it's been going on for years, but the sudden restrictions on his spending power has backed him into a corner. He simply can't afford to keep both of us going.

She was so calm and gentle. I love her so much. My head is in pieces, but it'll be okay.

I'm in work and have been clearing out all past messages from DP as I don't want to stumble across them when I'm not feeling as strong. I've read a few and it's heartbreaking to see how they change in tone. About a week after the weekend in November when all things changed, he asks me for the name of the male GPs at our local practice. I ask him if he's okay. He's thinking of getting a vasectomy. Doh.

Lean on your mum. She sounds wonderful. It must have been heartbreaking for her to watch this unfold.

Don't prolong the agony, he needs to go and quickly. The truth will come out in time, don't beat yourself for not spotting signs earlier. That reflects on him, not you. The most important thing is to protect yourself now. Go to CAB, and a solicitor and find out your rights.

Will keep checking back on this thread. You will be ok, it just feels hideous right now, I do understand that.

Got my practical head on today.

What do you need to do to leave? Or in other words what's stopping you?

FWIW, when I split up with my partner of 10 years, it really was hard. He'd been my best friend for years, and I really couldn't imagine being with anyone else.

The relationship was over though - that's totally obvious now, and was at the time if I'd been a bit more honest with myself.

Now, I find it hard to understand how I stayed so long! The situation was so very stressful, but it wasn't until I was out of it that I realised how much it had been taking a toll on me.

Once single, slowly I started feeling myself again, and it was good .

This bit is the hard bit, but it's like pulling a plaster off IMO. You know it'll hurt, but it has to be done, and you'll feel a lot better afterwards.

Now, I'm friends with my ex. I don't harbour any romantic feelings for him all any more, but we have so much shared experience, it would be a shame to waste it IMO. It took us a couple of years to get there though (I had to forgive him for his affair first. Well not forgive - I haven't - but get to a point where I didn't care any more because my life had moved on).

Sorry, more about me than you, but I hope it helps.

Oh, Adriane :( What's your mum's view on the operation? She sounds fabulous; I'm so glad you can talk with her, and she clearly cares very much about you.

Don't beat yourself up about being curt with him. It sounds as though not quite enough was done to give you back your sense of security after he broke your trust the first time. If, as your mother thinks, he's been having an affair since then, you will have picked up on subliminal clues and that will have made you feel threatened & prickly.

It's horrible to realise your partner has been purposefully deceiving you

Would it be constructive for your mum to phone his dad? I know it looks a bit schoolgirl-ish but, if the parents can cut through some layers of obfuscation, would be helpful.

Atswim2l -

I had a similar experience regarding the sudden change. My now ex confessed to a one night stand years after the event and I just knew exactly when it had happened even though initially he denied the timing! So I would say trust your instincts. I spent literally years trying to work out what was going wrong in our relationship prior to this and years afterwards.

That said, don't tie yourself in knots trying to prove yourself right. It really doesn't matter in the long run. The two things that shocked me most was how willing I was to believe what he was saying when his actions were so out of sync and how little I trusted my own instincts. If he acts like he wants out and he sounds like he wants out, chances are he wants out.

The other shocking thing is how immature some men (and it does seem to be men) are about this - if they call time on the relationship they'll be the baddie so they make life hell for you until you walk. Don't worry about being the badddie, it really isn't a biggie in the grand scheme as you'll have far more things to worry about than what he thinks about you.

You sound like you have a good support network around you and you will be okay, whatever you decide to do. Don't let it drift though. Think about what your time scales are - how would you feel if things were the same in a week, a month, a year, 5 years. If you think about it you will know what your limits are. Make some decisions soon though, this stuff can drag you down very very fast, as I think you are already noticing.

:(
The only reason to set your phone to flight mode is to avoid any messages coming through while you aren't around to monitor the phone, sorry. It sounds like he's checked out of this relationship already, and when that happens, there is usually someone else on the scene.

Thanks all. I'm in work and reading on a tiny minimised screen, but I'm reading even if I can't really reply.

I need some time to think things through.

Ironically, for the first time since forever, I was chatted up by a younger, rather attractive colleague at the water cooler today. I don't think my welling up in tears was quite the reaction he was looking for. Poor sod.

If I believed in 'signs', that'd have to be one!

I know what you mean about crying. One time, I went to visit a lovely client who was always very touchy-feely like me. He gave me a big hug and I burst into tears before we could even start the meeting

Showed me how much was missing in my marriage, though.

I'm not coping. I've been sitting at my desk, furiously fighting back the tears all morning. I'm completely lost.

Last night was horrible. DP rang about 10 minutes after I reached home to say he was on his way, needed to pop into Tesco, did I want anything. Just as he has done every evening for the last 13 years. He came in about 30 minutes later, kissed DD, grinned at me, asked what I fancied for supper, he'd make it. I refused.

In the kitchen, he was chattering about his day, mentioned he'd asked DD about going somewhere this weekend, what did I think, chatter-chatter, it would give me some time off to do what I wanted. The realisation that he wasn't actually including me in these plans was like a kick in the stomach.

I don't think I said a word to him all evening. He made himself supper (was I sure I wasn't hungry?), poured himself wine, packed the dishwasher, listened to the radio, read the papers, all the time with this one sided chat-chat running commentary directed at me. I just stared at him, incredulous. I went upstairs eventually and he shouted me down to watch at tv program together. Still more chat-chat.

This morning, we got ready for work in almost silence. My parents arrived. He waited until I was leaving and he asked if I wanted a lift to work. I thanked him, but declined. It's out of his way and I don't think I could have coped with more false normality. Outside, he stood on the drive with the passenger door open and told me to 'get in the car'. I went for the bus. He slammed doors and sped off the drive.

Once in the office, I forwarded an email to him that had come through to my work account and received a 'nice' reply. There is nothing reasonable about this situation, why does he insist on behaving this way?

In a fit of pique, I started to delete all past emails from him. They went back for years. Years and years of daily silly, affectionate conversations between us about absolute nonsense. Reading them and seeing how much we've lost broke my heart. I forwarded them to him, just to see if they would hurt him as much as they hurt me. No response. Stupid thing to do.

I'm so sorry for all this. I am listening to what I'm being told and I know I should go. I'm just not ready yet.

Adriane, I feel for you, this bit is horrible. It won't last forever though, you will get through this, and I have every faith you'll come out stronger.
Sending you hugs xxx

Thanks. I know. I've been through it before - with him. It's like deja-vu. Same circumstances, same feelings, even the same bloody words coming out of his lying mouth.

I'm trying to keep it together, but it's so difficult. I've lost 5lbs in the last 10 days. Last time I dropped 2 stones in about 8 weeks. Can't eat, can't sleep.

I'm making such a mess of it. I think I need evidence that there is an OW before I can hit anger. While I'm acting deranged, he isn't going to drop his guard.

Without proof, I'm doubting my instincts. I don't know what to believe. He could say the sky was green and without anything to say he's lying, part of me wants to believe him. To think that actually this will work out.

He's behaving as though the conversations of last week never took place. It's so confusing. You know that kick in the guts when you wake in the morning and for a few seconds, you think all is well with world? I'm getting it over and over and over again.

He's working away tonight. I'm wondering whether to see if DD can stay with her grandparents so I can cry this out of my system without disturbing her. I'm also wondering whether to ring his parents and see if he can stay with them for a while. Pack his things, get someone to pick them up, tell him to go home there instead.

Argh, poor you, Adriane. Yes, I did all that as well - the old emails and stuff. I eventually got sucked into his pretence of 'normality'. That cost me very dear - financially and emotionally. I tend to agree with you that physical separation, as far as you can arrange it, will help your sanity. I'd also recommend massive talking binges with whomever you can trust: friends that know him, family and a counsellor if you can find a sufficiently matter-of-fact one.

It's a matter of getting your head around the new reality, isn't it? A large part of you doesn't want to - understandably. I didn't seek 'proofs' but many here would advise hiring someone, if need be, to find some. There's merit in that, though you will get the important facts straight in your head eventually, with or without 'proof'.

The main thing is that you DO deserve a partner who's present and available to you. The one you have right now is only with you when it suits him, and when you don't need his support. That's actually worse than no partner ...

Another mumsnetter recommended this SIM reader to me.

You put the SIM into it and it shows you deleted texts. It works with most phones except some of the newer ones apparently.

While I don't think you should delay getting out more than necessary, if you do get the chance this could give you the info you need.

Adriane

Please go and see a solicitor and find out what the financial situation will be. Just because you are not married, does not necessarily mean you have to move out of the house - especially as you are the primary care giver.

I really think this should be your first step now. They will tell you what you need to do and what information you need.

My guess is that your DP has another woman - the phone wiped clean and being in airplane mode, says it all - and your gut feeling and the fact that he has form BUT and this is a big BUT, that doesn't matter. The vasectomy is interesting, but I'll try not to jump to conclusions - although there is an obvious one.

What does matter is that he thinks it's ok to manipulate and hurt you, be cold to you, ignore your feelings and pretend they don't matter and make you feel like you and your daughter are a burden who stop him getting a new car.

I do understand wanting to know and getting driven to despair to find out, but if he's been caught once, he's probably very good at hiding it all - and as he works away and long hours, it will be very easy for him.

I would also recommend counselling (your gp might have a service, but there will be a waiting list - some workplaces offer counselling too) just so you have someone impartial and trained to talk to, who can help put you, your health needs and happiness and ultimately your DD's health and happiness first.

Good luck A

oops - pressed post instead of review.
Apologies for shocking grammar and rambling.