Urgent help needed PLEASE...when is enough ENOUGH????

[worthless]

this is my second thread on MN....first was "Crap wife - good mother"....

Things have moved on after an awful few weeks. Husband now found a house to rent and is due to move out at the weekend..... has asked me to think again about US and about the children (14,11,8) to think about what him leaving will do to them etc etc

He quite clearly does not want to leave his home, his children and wants to stay but I just don't know whether I can do this anymore.

Last 2 years have been truly dreadful for us all. Been unhappy for many years really. Only came to a head in last couple of years when DH turned nasty.

Have suffered EA from him (but didnt realise it was this until seen this from MN)

He has for a number of years been EA, been a bully, lazy, bad tempered, selfish, and sexually a pest - thinks women are up for sex whenever their husbands want it and that he is the only man to have sex ONLY 2 or 3 times a week!!!!

Finally had enough of the rows, temper, and abuse BUT he assures me he recognises that he has in his words "been a crap husband" and that it is not me that has "been the crap wife"......

Has he changed/can he change - should I give him one last go.....

I am not sure if I love him anymore - how can someone love someone who has been so horrible for so long - I have told him this and he is begging for one last chance.

Thoughts please - quickly!!!!!!!

Like susiedaisy, my ex was Big, Bad and Scary when it was just us, but was suddenly a lot less macho when solicitors etc were involved.

Worthy, keep with Loopy's train of thought.

I really feel for all you are going through. MN and my counsellor got me through the last 18 months. I would have crumpled on my own.

Most of your thoughts echo so much of what I went through, even the things your H is saying. It is almost scary that there is such a pattern in two completely different men.

God he screwed my head up so bad.

Thinking of you and really wishing you strength and peace of mind over the coming time x

So, how are things now, Worthy?

Ok thanks loopy although I apologize in advance for any typos tonight as under the duvet slightly the worse for wear ((Australian Shiraz actually)

Husband downstairs but all is calm. He says that his deposit money not cleared yet so won't be moving in for 7/10 dAys - Long story to explain how I checked up on him but I did and story true......can't quite believe I can be so crafty and feels wrong to check but did anyway (shock horror)

Got to survive until then with him making me feel even more guilty than I do already if that is possible?

Is it ok to post some more as I think I am going to need some help in next few days ??????????

you can have all the help you need worthy, you lean as much as you need to.

This is your thread, your life, your issues, we are all here to help as and when you need it.

Worthless, on the basis of what you have posted here you could go to court tomorrow and get an occupation order (requiring him to leave the house) and a non-molestation order (preventing him from harassing you).

Please bear that in mind. He does not have to be the one running the show. You could go to a legal aid practice on monday morning and come home with a non-mol/occupation order either the same day or the next day.

You deserve much better. You sound like a lovely woman. Your children deserve much, much better. x

PS I agree you MUST change your name! WorthEverything might be a suggestion

OP I was in a similar position to you about 18 months ago. H's behaviour was not quite so overt as your H's (or perhaps it was but I couldn't see it).

I think the problem with living with this for so long is that it has become 'normal' for you and so you don't see how extreme it really is.

We did Relate for 18 months and nothing changed. I just felt I couldn't leave until I'd done everything I could and even when I'd done everything I could think of it didn't feel like I'd done enough. Eventually I realised that he didn't really want to be with me and we finally separated.

It has not been easy - I'd used up all my energy trying to save the marriage. A move meant that I was socially isolated as well and my confidence had taken a real knock so I've found it difficult to engage with people and make friends. I had been with my H for over 20 years and he'd been my best friend and ally for a lot of that.

I have been very up and down since he left and felt very at sea. Interestingly, in spite of all this, all 3 DCs have told me that I've been much better since the split. Having thought we'd coped pretty well until about 6 months before the split it was a real shock when, weeks after we separated, DC1 (13) had a nightmare that we had got back together! Just goes to show that they often understand more about what is going on than we do.

You don't need anyone's approval to put yourself higher up the list of priorities - you should be the most important person to you. It's taken me a long time to work it out, but I think that if you wouldn't be with a person if you didn't have DCs then you have to seriously question why you would stay with them because you have DCs. Obviously, it is important to try to make things work but that has a time limit of, I would suggest, no more than 6 months maximum. If it's no better after 6 months of active trying, it's not likely to improve.

Hi Worthless (Worthmorenotless?),
Can you believe in a concept that you are the one in control of how guilty you are to feel? (It's true, really, it is! )

Turn it around and think how guilty you'd be/feel if you decide to continue to subject yourself and your dear dear children to this emotional abuse? That there lies the real guilt. The abusive one wants you to believe otherwise and will say anything to divert you from the truth. It is all 'lip service' and you should stop listening to it.

But the abusive one knows that you are a decent and civilized lady and were brought up believing that intentional 'not listening' is rude-am I right? He is clearly taking advantage of that fact. You can change that, though. Men don't listen all the time; you are entitled to choose to not listen as well.

What have you received for listening? Abuse. He has worn it out, over and over and over again. Yes, enough is enough. Do not listen to him anymore.

Take a page from the Man Book: nod your head, glaze over eyes, mumble 'um hum' occasionally or 'that's interesting' or 'I'll think about it later'...etc etc.

Another thing you can look out for when he speaks: I can guess that he is talking "at" you, rather than "to" you. Talking "at" you equals you do not exist...talking "to" you equals you do exist and receive due respect.

Talking 'at' you rarely requires a reply. The only reply you need though is: "No" right? Practice it: hear yourself say it out loud...repetition is a key to success.

This plays into a survival technique of "monitoring" the dynamic which helps you kind of stay on the periphery as an observer rather than get drawn in and abused yet again. Pretend you are doing a report (you are for your friends here ) and identify manipulative statements.

Mercy! All that just flowed out! I won't edit-I hope even some tiny bit can be of use to you. Stay strong, stay focused a day at a time, or a half day at a time, or an hour at a time, half hour at a time...well, I wear a watch with a second hand for a reason...
Thinking of you, rooting for you, good luck.

Morning Worth, I am out and totally free of my EA husband because he passed away. So its a different situation to yours however I just want to comment on the peace and tranquillity that has descended on my home without him being here.

My DD (now 12) used to jump up and start running around the house, grabbing stuff she'd left on the table and run upstairs to change out of her school uniform if she heard his car on the drive. A few months ago she suddenly said, 'I know Daddy was really horrible to US but I think you loved him' -this statement told me a lot about how she felt.

My H and I ran a business using my skills however he controlled all the finances. He used to shout at me that I couldn't 'run a fucking caravan' and had no idea how to deal with staff. Since he died I took over the business have had to take on more staff and its growing quicker than I thought. I love working with the team of staff wheras H had always told me that I was no good at this. In fact I was pretty much no good at anything.

I suppose what I am trying to say is, you will find yourself when he is not there telling you. I was working up the strength to leave my H, but I never forget when my counsellor said to me, 'when you finally leave him I feel it will be the making of you'.

Good luck, and change you name to WORTHY

oh my goodness feel soooooo exhausted.....having big trouble sleeping with all this confusion in my head....still dont know if I am doing the right thing with the separation!!!!

Overwelmed with feelings of guilt, just seeing him with the children and them not knowing yet that he is going is doing my head in - I feel such a bitch......how can I do this to everyone????

Then this morning he lies on top of me in bed and I ask him to get off as I dont want him on me and he says "I cant help it if I fancy you, I love you so much - lets just have a Sg for old times sake"........I said NO I DO NOT WANT TO and he says what about a b jb then"????

OMG - makes my skin crawl - what bit of this does he not get???

Or once again is it me just being a frigid cold hearted bitch??????

no, he is an abusing knob head. well done for saying no. he just wants a maid and a shag. He won't get because ultimately he only care about his wants and needs. keep strong, thinking of you

OMG he just does not get it does he? No it is not you, it is him. Yuck. Makes my skin crawl just reading about it.

Stay strong and talk on here when you need to.

He's still in your bed?

Fair enough, if you're happy to wait the 7-10 days, that's up to you. I personally wouldn't. I'd find a holiday let or b&b for him.
But sleeping in your bed is going to really confuse things.

Remember what you want, and try and think of the best way to achieve that. As I said before, stick to your guns. (Not literally!)

Hope you have a nice day. :)

Put him on the sofa until he goes.

mmmm......i would love to put him in the shed but alas i am 5ft 3 and he is 6ft 2 so that just aint going to happen (ha ha/sob sob)

really want to hold myself together and be dignified for last week or so - will grit my teeth and hold my breath (he does not smell BTW - in actual fact he is very handsome)so I am talking figuratively speaking :-)

wish me luck x

I know the feeling worthy, am in the same boat, he'll be leaving in a few weeks.

Tell your H that he needs to leave you alone, that actually this pawing at you will make it less likely and that it's really putting you off him.

Fortunately my 'H' now knows not to beg for sex, but it was really annoying for a while.

As you say, shame because he is handsome, is gifted in the rumpy department, but I ended up feeling used and seeing that it was all about him.

Am looking forward to having the house and my bed to myself again.

the sex begging is just revolting, my friend once said that her exH always wanted to shag her if he'd been away, no matter whether she wanted it or not - she said he was like a dog marking his territory.

Ok shoot me down in flames- feel like just about to jump in a tank of piranhas (sorry no offense meant)

Wavering again - remember 30 years is a long time!!!!

Got home from work to flowers, dinner and ironing done....what a head f**k.......

Is it me??? Yes I am distant, yes I don't talk much to him, yes I don't look at him in the eye, yes I don't cuddle or kiss or willingly have sex (all of these I used to but not any more for the last few months anyway) so hardly surprising he is pissed off and angry with me....

So why oh why can I not forget how awful he has been - I mean I must be partly to blame musn't I?

I have spent so much time juggling 3 children, a home, a job that I have neglected him.......shite maybe it is my fault!!!!!!!!'hb

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

You so need to be away from this man I'd rather be on the sofa than share a bed with that.

You know deep down that it isn't your fault.
Turn it around. If you were going out to work and leaving him to do all the work at home, with the kids and with a job and he was too tired and knackered to have sex with you, would you behave like he has to you? Would your son be frightened to hear your key in the lock? Would your daughter be happier if you lived someone else?

No. And that is because you are a nice person who treats others with kindness and respect and he IS not and DOES not. Nothing that you have done can excuse even 100th of what he has done to you and the kids.

30 years is a long time to put up with violent aggression and disrespect. If you won't chuck him out for you, do it for the kids. They deserve to feel safe and happy in their own home.

If someone can't buy you flowers or make you dinner just because he loves you then they mean nothing when it's done as an act of desperation.

So he's finally woken up to how serious you're being and is a little spooked..... shame he didn't take you seriously all the other times you asked him 'to be your friend' and sort out your issues.

Much too little, much much too late.

Of course 30 years is a lot to let go of but longevity alone is not a reason to keep a marriage together. It will be hard but you have so much more life ahead of you and staying with him will be much harder.

when I told my H I had been to see a lawyer and was starting divorce proceedings he promptly went out and bought me a mercedes benz.

Now considering I had been driving the kids around for a year in a scratched up banger and he kept advising me to get myself a car on lease, and pay for it myself, and he had a brand new benz on order for himself just goes to show how much these men will ALWAYS try to 'buy' you back with some show items.

A week later he was threatening that he had lodged papers with various 'experts' regarding me being an unfit mother and could have the children taken away from me.

My lawyer accepted the car on my behalf as a more suitable car to drive the DCs around in than the heap I was driving

HE WILL NOT CHANGE

I think maybe you need to stop seeing this in such black and white terms (kick him out/let him stay). How about, your relationship clearly isn't working for either of you. You both need some time and space to consider the best way to move forward. You have tried doing that while both living in the same house and it hasn't worked so now you need physical space. To do this one of you needs to move out and in practical terms this should be him. It needs to be long enough for you both to have time to reflect and there should be a period of time where you both agree NOT to discuss the relationship and keep contact to a bare minimum.

This way, you both get space and, I believe, the way forward will become much clearer without having to make such a giant leap of faith for which you currently lack the resources.

You want to do what's best for everyone (and are prepared to sacrifice your own happiness into the bargain) but at the moment you can't see the wood for the trees.

I can really hear you wavering and I do understand how scary this place can feel. But living like this is exhausting you to the point where you can't think clearly.

If you do relent this time, you will get there eventually. If you do back down this time, try to plan a holiday for just you and the DCs (a week minimum, preferably 2). It will help give you some perspective on the dynamics in your relationship.

It's very easy for us looking in from the outside but I do know how difficult it feels when you are in the middle of it. My ex really knew which buttons to push but the longer I am apart from him the more I can see his behaviour for what it is and the less I react.

Hi Worthless,
You sound like you are vulernable to manipulation.
Don't listen to him anymore. Ok? Think of some analogy to hold onto like the sound of his voice is a cancer on your ears-don't let it in.

Do not accept gifts from him. I know this is hard and goes against your nice personality and civilized training in manners. But, girlfriend, this is war-'nice' is not going to have a part here. He can and will call you every name in the book and invent a few new ones...so what? Just hot air. You know the truth. His opinion is no longer relevant.

Give the flowers to your neighbor. Explain what is going on, yes, tell the neighbor. Because your soon to be X may indeed escalate and you will have a potential witness as well as someone who might call the police for you if needed. Please don't think it could never 'go there'-there are enough threads here to prove otherwise.

Do not accept any wrapped gifts. Glue your hands to your sides to prevent the reflex of reaching for something offered. Do not touch it...if it is left out in the open to torment you, then off to the neighbor it goes. No matter the value! If it was for you, then you can do with it what you want-no conditions. That ought to nip that one in the bud.

When he is at work and more flowers arrive, just tell the delivery person to take them to the neighbor. Yes, do not let them across your threshold.

This is part of the 'disconnect' you need to do. You will not accept any more crap from him and you will not accept anything "nice" either-because you know that "nice" has an agenda attached to it (more crap in disguise).

And,
Seriously,
I really think you should not let him touch you again. That is supremely manipulative.

No No No No No NO
You can be a little pro-active.
Make him choose to leave before the payment clears. He is persona non grata. Don't cook for him, no housekeeping, no help with anything-including 'emergency' transportation. If he fakes a heart attack on the living room floor-walk right by, call the ambulance then wait outside. Don't even blink.

Some of these suggestions came from a thread called Narcissistic Personality Disorder where a poster called Therealme was separating from a nasty piece of work. Jul or Aug 2009 I think it was. (I've never done a link-sorry I can't pop it up for you.)

Worthless, you need a game plan to get through these days. Stay busy as hell. Plan a new decorating design for your bedroom, first thing-new linens!.

Good luck! Thinking of you.