Urgent help needed PLEASE...when is enough ENOUGH????

[worthless]

this is my second thread on MN....first was "Crap wife - good mother"....

Things have moved on after an awful few weeks. Husband now found a house to rent and is due to move out at the weekend..... has asked me to think again about US and about the children (14,11,8) to think about what him leaving will do to them etc etc

He quite clearly does not want to leave his home, his children and wants to stay but I just don't know whether I can do this anymore.

Last 2 years have been truly dreadful for us all. Been unhappy for many years really. Only came to a head in last couple of years when DH turned nasty.

Have suffered EA from him (but didnt realise it was this until seen this from MN)

He has for a number of years been EA, been a bully, lazy, bad tempered, selfish, and sexually a pest - thinks women are up for sex whenever their husbands want it and that he is the only man to have sex ONLY 2 or 3 times a week!!!!

Finally had enough of the rows, temper, and abuse BUT he assures me he recognises that he has in his words "been a crap husband" and that it is not me that has "been the crap wife"......

Has he changed/can he change - should I give him one last go.....

I am not sure if I love him anymore - how can someone love someone who has been so horrible for so long - I have told him this and he is begging for one last chance.

Thoughts please - quickly!!!!!!!

Agree with previous poster - this threat that if he leaves it is forever is totally NOT the action of a man who wants to win you back!

He should be BENDING OVER BACKWARDS to do what you want him to do - not issuing you with bloody ultimatums!!

You will always care for him but it sounds like you've been walked all over for so long you have forgotten how to care for yourself. Go for it.

ENJOY YOUR NEW LIFE

OP, you wrote "I feel so sad that I am making him go but I really do feel that this kids and me (and him really) have had enough"

You are not making him go. HE made it impossible for him to stay.

When your DS, his own son says he started to feel tense when H's key goes in the door. I know what he feels like, it's a sickening knot of fear, and is horrific. To feel like that about your own father?

He's using the line about taking someone else and not living like a monk as a way to try to manipulate you into keeping him in your life.

Don't fall for it. The sooner he goes, the sooner you will recover and the sooner you may find someone to treat you with respect and love.

Let him go. Insist upon it. For the sake of your DC, for the sake of you.

You Deserve Better.

blame it on the pmt, your posting made me cry.........

the father of my unborn(at the time) dd threatened never to have anything to do with her if i didn't play ball with his wishes.

I still left and he never put his name on her B/c, or has made the effort to see her even though i still get requests to renew our sexual relationship (usually two minutes after some weak attempt at asking after how dd is)

I can't tell you how my dd feels about her situation, she's too young to know yet. But i know want her to grow up loved, secure, safe and happy

be strong, your children deserve to be safe and i truly beleive if that includes keeping their father away from them then it is better that he lives elsewhere. He will certianly have a better relationship with his children if they have less cause to fear him.

Oh tell me I must be strong please - husband tells me that if he goes then he wont be back as he will start a new life and that we will have to sell the house as he does not plan to live like a monk!!!

He doesn't want you he wants convenience, home comforts and a fuck.

Sorry to put it so bluntly - but listen to what he is saying. He wants to stay where he's comfortable or he wants someone else to fuck. He's not interested in being a better husband or father.

You SON is 11 - he is tensing up when he hears his fathers key in the door!!!

I agree with all that you say but do you think that it is fair for me to put the kids through the trauma of a seperation if indeed he has seen the error of his ways and if indeed he can accept some responsibility for where we are now and can change. I do not have much confidence that he can and have told him this but he insists that finally he has seen the light and that he can change/has changed.......however we had another awful weekend just gone and he really upset my son and I have never seen him (my son that is) so angry, upset and confused. It is for my son that I feel we must have some time apart but it is my son that my husband says he needs to stay for...after all "a boy needs his dad".....which is true but my son is a very gentle, caring sensivite boy and I feel he needs some calm and some fun, some laughter and to feel relaxed at home and I just dont think that I can give him this feeling as I do.

Maybe it is my fault then that I cant seem to give my children the fun they deserve as I am so unhappy. I try my best I really do but it is so hard when your heart is breaking. Why do I let my husband treat me like this and feel like this?????

Staying with this man will be a hundred times more traumatic for your children than a separation could ever be.

It is not your fucking fault, please stop saying that, he's a knob and his son is better off without him.

Oh my god, I wish I could bundle you all into my car and drive you away from him

At the exact time when he should be showing that he can help create a happy home life, he is still making everyone miserable? If he doesn't have an incentive now to show the best side of himself, when will he? Seriously, this is the best he can do?

Yes, yes, yes, you and your dcs need calm, relaxation, fun! Seriously, OP, this is the worst bit. Get this over you, and there is so much better ahead!

Did this "seeing the light" happen before or after he spent a weekend browbeating you and his son? Changes much? Just don't believe a word he says and you can't go far wrong.

We've already explored in previous threads why you let him treat you like this. The good news is you don't have to go on putting up with it.

If indeed he has seen the error of his ways he wouldn't be behaving the way he is. He would be offering to move out, go through therapy/treatment whatever to sort out HIS issues. And he would certainly not be upsetting your son and you. Or threatening and manipulating you.

You feel like this because HE treats you so badly. Get him out of the house and see how you feel then.

Really OP (I refuse to call you worthless) if this man was capable of putting anyone's needs before his own, he would be sitting down with his son and explaining just how much he loved him, why he and his Mum needed time apart and that, even if you're not together, he'll always be a Dad etc, etc.

He isn't. He's only interested in trying to get his own needs met and he doesn't seem to have any qualms about hurting his children to get what he wants.

If this is truly a man who has changed then I really can't imagine what a bastard he was before.

Actually, and I can only speak from my experience and that of my children, whilst the initial separation is harrowing for all, it is better for your children that you separate.

My DC's were confused that they could both love and 'hate' their father, because he could be supremely fun and caring and on the other swing of the pendulum, be a raging intolerant abusive man who scared them both. My son was a self harming wreck at 10, who talked of suicide, and my DD used to hide or have shrieking, weird episodes if she thought she was in 'trouble'.

But like others say, YOU are not doing this, he is. If it all meant so much to him, he would sit down and discuss what is best for them and you and take responsibility for what he has caused
Yes, a son needs a Dad, but not an emotionally abusive one who may well scar him irreparably if he doesn't recognise the damage he is doing.

And YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE for changing your H. HE has to do it. And make the first step by NOT making threats in the way he is. And the promises to change just become hollow even to children when they are not seen through.

The calm, fun, relaxed laughter comes back when stability is restored. And yes, you will see your Son blossom . The relationship with his Dad is a fragile thing but it is the adults (his Dad's) responsibility to sort it.

It is like giving birth in a way. The final push is painful and seems unbearable but once done.. you can move on with the new life that lays before you.

I could have written your posts 'worthless' and I know how hard it is, how much you blame yourself, and that lasts a long time, but imagine a few months down the road when your son has relaxed away from the emotional roller coaster and is giggling and you are giggling with him. No more eggshells, no more fear at the key in the door, no more yo-yo of moods and atmospheres, because that is what normal life is like.

here you go OP you need THIS

You DON'T need this -> YOUR ABUSIVE H

Just backing up everything that has been said.

1. your children will be far better off with a strong mother who can stand up for not just herself but her children too

2. your son would not be better off if he's already picked up on how your h is being and your h stays and continues to act the way he is

3. I doubt your h will change his ways unless you give him a reason to and that's from actually making him leave. And only after at least 6 months separation.

My ex emotionally abused me. And it was when I finally thought I've had enough and stood up to it, he began to panic because he didnt have the power over me anymore. He tried to change but he didn't, hence why he's an ex.

Yes, it would seem easier to keep things how they are with the hope that he'll change, but he's got it easy and you'll fall into the same traps again and again. If your children were with someone like that when they're older, think about how you would react. You wouldn't want them with someone like that and you'd want to protect them. You can protect them mow by asking h to leave.

I wish I could HUG you and talk to you - not just be words on a bloody screen.

Trauma of separation??? Honestly, you need t see what H is doing is FAR worse than separation. Your son is a wreck, he's tense when he hears H's key in the door, this past week he's been angry, confused and upset - what part of that ^exactly* does he need?

A child doesn't need a Dad. Plenty do just fine without one. That aside, your son has a Dad who would be a far better Dad if he lived somewhere else... he is being a lousey fucking Dad right now - and frankly, it has got to the stage where you are enabling him to be a fucking lousey Dad.

Did you read what you wrote? He isn't willing to work on the relationship if he moves out, he wants to sell your childrens home so that he can start over and fuck who he wants?? What part of that is changing? What part of that is seeing the error of his ways? What part of that is LOVE? - for you or your kids??

He is right - if he moves out it wont happen - what he isn't saying is that even if he stays there it wont happen.

You've tried
You've been to relate
You've talked - you've been honest with him

He wont change.

Please, for your son at least, make him leave. Give your son his home back. Give your son a stable home life with the freedom to see his Dad when he wants on his (DS's) terms (and the other DC).

To put it bluntly - if you allow him to stay, you are colluding in his behaviour and really, he is abusive.

OP, I posted a lot on your original thread and have thought about you often since then, worrying about what you'd do. I am SO impressed and proud for you that you've taken this step but don't stumble now.

You say you don't want to put your kids through the trauma of a separation, but no separation could ever be as traumatic as having to watch your Dad treat your Mum like shit and to feel wary of him yourself. This separation is one (yes, very big) event compared to a whole childhood.

You are a loving, giving, selfless woman and it's clear you're used to putting everyone else's needs above yours. This separation is in your children's best interests AND your best interests too and it's my hunch that allowing yourself something that is in your best interest is making you feel very guilty. And with your husband being such an arsehole, you've probably forgotten or never been allowed to realise that win-win situations are possible; win for you, win for the kids. As for win for him, well, your whole life together has been about that, to the detriment to you and your kids.

Sons need fathers who are good role models and who make them feel good about themselves, not any father. A father like his is NOT a good role model. And no girl needs to learn that men can treat women like he has treated you for so long.

Of course you're scared. Your whole adult life has been about being this man's partner. But HE has destroyed all that through HIS behaviour and HIS actions and HIS choices. Just because it's become all you know, does not mean you cannot get to know a much happier, calmer and better life and to reclaim your true self again.

He has set things up so you givegivegive to him and he takestakestakes and yet still makes you feel selfish and like you owe him something. Now you feel like you ought to give him a second chance. Stop worrying about his feelings - he is obsessed with them more than enough for the both of you and when has he ever really cared about yours?! He will not change; be strong! and well done!

He's had years to 'think of the children' God he had years to think of you, he chose not to. He chose to bully, belittle, pester you. He chose to behave in a way that you'd have to lose all self respect to stay.

He is begging you to stay because he can't bear the thought of losing you, but not losing the woman he lives for but maybe the woman he would rather not live without him.

If he changes that's great, for him. If he changes and you want him back, great. But this is your turn.....

Great post, Scorpette.

ok so give him another couple of weeks to show you and your DC that he has seen the light, i would suggest that you refrain from sex, until you feel more happy with him, put the ball firmly but calmly in his court and see what he does, do this on your terms, my guess is it will last about a week if your lucky (been there done that with exH) then when he fucks up which IMO he will, he has had his chance but i think you already know whats going to happen the minute an issue or usual family prob comes along, i split with my H 3 weeks b4 xmas after spending months agonising over it thinking i wasn't entitled to put my happiness/sanity b4 my children's, but eventually i knew what had to be done, i explained it to my DC and after an initial few teary tantrumy days they have settled into a routine and we have a smaller but much happy household now, stay strong,

Oh worthless - I wish you'd change your name! It's him that is worthless, not you. Everyone else who has posted on here has sussed him in a nanosecond - the remorse and this amazing light he has seen is remarkably coincidental with you chucking him out and him having to get off his backside and look after himself for once.

No-one who uses children as a weapon should be entitled to live with them. Your DCs will be happier with a happy mum and visits to dad than they will in a house where mum is miserable and put down all the time and abused by dad. As I said when I posted on your previous thread, and so did everyone else, what kind of example are you setting them about relationships and how women should be treated?

So, my two penn'orth, for what it's worth, is what everyone else has said. Don't take him back, ever, unless you and all around you are absolutely convinced that he has changed. This should take at least as long as the abuse lasted. I suspect his "change" won't last a fortnight.

And please, CHANGE YOUR NAME to something more appropriate like FABSTRONGMOTHERWHOISNOLONGERADOORMATANDISSOWORTHIT !

Oh god think I am going mad. Today is the last day he can back out of the rental house and he is making this so hard. Very convincing that I am f***g everything up if I make him go and despite all your messages I am wondering whether I am doing the right thing!!!!

He says that I am being a baby and putting myself before the children. Told him I need some head space and that kids need some peace and to feel relaxed and calm in their own home and that we can't have this when we are together so he has to understand that and do what is best for them. He says that it is best for them to stay together and that I need to get a grip and grow up!!

Eldest daughter heard all this this morning and said to us "I don't want to get up with this atmosphere - please stop"......he replied "what atmosphere, this is just normal"

Spoke to her after he had gone to work and I said sorry to her and asked her if she understood why I am having trouble moving on with her dad and was honest with her about my thinking that maybe her dad should move out for a bit to give us all a bit of space and she agreed that would be good for us all. She understands that after all that has been going on for the last couple of years why I feel like I do. She said that he is like a husband from the 50's wanting his wife at his beck and call!!!!!

Despite everything I feel so confused and guilty and so wish I could just forget everything but I can't.....he makes me feel it is my fault and keeps telling me "I JUST WANTED YOU TO LOVE ME"

I did but I don't think I do now and feel so trapped and sad and my heart is breaking for everyone

This is the worst bit! Survive today, stay strong, and he can't back out of the rental house and the pressure will ease off. Look at what he's doing - why can't he be nice to you at the time when it is most in his interest to be nice?

Listen to your children, listen to us, listen to the whole damn world that is telling you this - everyone except him.

You did love him! You were perfectly ready to continue loving him, and he made it impossible!

Plese, post whenever you feel yourself wavering today. You don't have to wake up to this agonizing tomorrow! It can be done.

Thank you for posting straight away! I think that he will back out today - his decision is out of my control. He knows how I feel but I bet a million pounds that he comes home tonight and tells me that it is all off and that he is staying and that I need to pull myself together and love him!!!

And so the cycle will continue........

If it helps, know that he's pressuring you intensely now, because he knows this is his only window of opportunity. Once you've spent time without him, he realizes that he'll never be able to bend you to his will again.

So what's your plan if he does come back and refuses to move out? You are not helpless in this situation! Not sure if you own the house or not. I know that I ended up leaving (with my DD) but there are others on here who can give advice about other strategies.

He is not the one in the driving seat of your life!