Ladies who don't mind their DP going to lap dancing clubs ....

[nappyaddict]

Do you mind them having a dance in a private room where even though touching is not allowed it is common for the girl to sit and dance cms away from their crotch/face?

When,

As far as I know, most lapdancers are self employed. They pay a fee to work at the club and then they earn what the guys spend (drinks and dances) minus the fee. Male club workers are normally behind the bar or bouncers, pretty much on minimum wage.

Have you spoken to many lap dancers?

Larry-I thought this was a thread about whether women minded their partners going to lap dancing clubs. Isn't it about time women were given a chance to express their feelings on this subject? I had men telling me what I should and shouldn't think/feel for too long.

Yes I have Larry, as part of a piece of work I was contracted to write for a social research project. This involved speaking to performers of both genders, bar staff, door staff and although they were reluctant to contribute and admit the scale of profits generated, the exclusively male owners.

Your assumption that female performers receive a proportion of the other profits generated, such as drinks sales, is erroneous. You are right that the door and waiting staff are lowly paid and that proportionately more of them are male. This generated an interesting question about why low-paid male workers did not choose to supplement their income with sex work, especially as the evidence was that male strippers earned more. The response fell into two categories. Either the men were resistant to selling their bodies for sex or there was virtually non-existent female demand for them to do so. Sex work is very much a gendered issue, both in supply and demand.

When,

OK, apologies. I prob last visited one in the 90s and that was the norm then.

I agree that sex work is a gendered issue but, based upon what you say, it is hard to see which gender has it better. As you say, it seems that the females have the option to do sex work or low paid bar work but, due to lack of demand, the men do not have the same option.

'due to lack of demand, the men do not have the same option.'

Oh dear!
Poor men, with not enough women prepared to objectify and exploit them!

whenwillIfeelnormal your last post was brilliant.

men-as-a-group have got more money than women-as-a-group, so it's not just that women aren't interested in exploiting men, it's also the fact that they simply don't have the cash to spend on buying another human being's body
An entire industry has been built on this extra cash men have, this pocket change, that men use. What is 'pocket change' for men is rent and food for women.

Ha ha cuddles on Bristol road. Been there for years

Some women don't mind it, and think it is part of 'what boys do'.

It would be a deal breaker for me, but then, I wouldn't start a relationship with someone who thought it was OK.

There is pressure on some wives and girlfriends to accept it.

Do the men who go have daughters?

I also think that a lot of men don't actually feel comfortable with lap dancing clubs but it's part of the conditioning to make it acceptable and normal for men to go in them. So even if they don't particularly want to, it becomes difficult to speak out in a group of tanked up men on a stag night.

I know some who have spoken out but most just go along with it. I sensed that my brother felt ashamed but then was quick to justify his actions with the whole 'it's her choice to work there' argument to ease his conscience.

Sadly most of the men I know think it's perfectly fine with the exception of a few, who haven't fallen for the rhetoric.

Yuk. Do the men who watch have daughters?

GOML. Me too. Give her a column, possibly to replace the ghastly Pamela Stephenson in the Guardian, or the ghastly Rowan Pelling in the Mail. But not in the Saturday Telegraph, who have Graham Norton, who is fucking brilliant.

(GOML. did you say that you sound like Joanna Lumley? I now have to read your posts quite differently)

And puke.

In a patriarchical society, where men have more social and economic power, I have no doubt which gender "has it better"....

WRT the last few posts, I agree that the social conditioning that males should enjoy porn, lap-dancing and sex when it's offered, damages males. Just as women with considerable esteem feel able to assert their boundaries and challenge the "men will be men" discourse, only confident, emotionally mature males feel able to counter the belief that they are somehow "less of a man" if they have political and personal objections to it.

I understand what posters are saying about their daughters, but in my view it is as important that Mums and Dads educate their sons too and give them the confidence to eschew the herd mentality. The Father and Son chats that have taken place in our house about this issue, have been extraordinarily powerful.

Seconded, WWIFN.

Sakura,

Men (well, a very few men) may spend their spare money on lapdancing but who buys the Prada handbags, the couture dresses, the skincare products costing £00s? Not too many men.

I don't think many men on low wages frequent lap dancing joints. Both sexes have spare money and can spend it as they choose.

larry, you can argue irrelevant points till the cows come come. I've got the facts on my side, you don't.

Larry - why do YOU want to be able to go to a lap dancing club and pay for a dance?

Ladies, if you are OK with it, that's fine. It's your life/marriage/relationship and you don't need to justify it

What I struggle with are the women who say:

'he didn't enjoy it...'
'the women were all rough..'
'somebody else wanted to go there and he couldn't say no..'
'it's not about sex for him, it's just a laugh..'

I know he said all that to you; but here is the Babblefish translation:

"The young 20-year-old Ukrainian blonde with the firm tits really did it for me, I'll be thinking about her everytime we go through the motions from now to Chrimbo."

They are paying for women to get their tits out for them and spread their legs in a thong, not do a stand-up comedy routine and talk about the football.

Oh, and when a MM tells you his DW 'doesn't understand him' he probably just wants a shag!

I have worked in a strip club and know loads of strippers. They all love their work great money ans easy work. A lot of women enjoy doing it, the same as some men enjoy stripping etc. I think if you are doing it cause you want to then whats the problem?

In relation to the OP its is something that is decided by the couple.

I have spoken to both a lap dancer and escort who both have DDs. They both said that if their daughter at 18 said she had dome all the relevant research and was going into the industry for the right reasons, then they would support her choices. If it was out of self-hatred, lack of self-respect, desperation for cash or because of a drug addiction then she would not support it because that would be for the wrong reasons.

Surely Feminism means that as a woman everyone has the right to choose for themselves?

NA, out of interest, what did your friends say were the "right reasons" ?

I don't have any problem with the women working in sex industries. What I dislike is the way their customers use women as commodities. I believe that a man, who uses some women like that, must necessarily hold women in contempt - all women.

Several posters have related tales of male partners who feel distressed by the attitudes of men using sex services, because the users didn't see the sex workers as people. That, to me, is the point.

As an aside, I worked on several studies into the lives of prostituted women. It didn't suprise me to learn that most lapdancers, too, come from problematic backgrounds.

Anyfucker - my friends said because they enjoyed it, good money, easy work, only had to work evenings/nights so loads of free time etc. I dont see anything wrong with it at all. They wanted to do it and they enjoyed it. I worked in there on both the bar and the door. At ours there was strict no touching even in the private rooms that I could see on video from the bar. Also if anyone did touch they got chucked out and it was very very strict. (Due to the licencing laws and the area. They were extremely strict).

All depends on the place really. If the women enjoy it, the place is decent and everyone is in it of their own free will I dont see the problem at all.

but the consequences of them existing do not just impact on the women who work in them.

The insipid yucky life of an objectified woman, I neither like the woman who is exploited or the paying customer or employer who exploits her. A terrible indictment of a quick fix, lazy society that is going backwards fast when it comes to the way we view women. In the situation in which a man pays another man for a woman to take off her clothes and act sexually available the woman has the least power.

No such thing as free will when you're an object, just blinkered oppression.